Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
^^^you are being too cute over here.....but needless to say, who elects the Govt.....and who spends on the infrastructure and who uses the same.
Okay, for a moment I can accept that Pakistanis are getting aid from USA then what? Does this mean we have to support USA even in its wrong and unjust actions?
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
excellent post :k:
The trouble is one can bluntly state that they do not deny the holocaust or the suffering of the jewish people and not just in the previous century, but the moment one questions the authenticity of any event in holocaust or voices their concern at the suffering of the Palestinians, they are labeled an anti-semite.
Which other event in the history of the world is taken at face value without scrutiny? If anyone claims that every single one of millions of holocaust related accounts or documents is authentic and thus can not be questioned, they are just fooling themselves. History is written by the victors remember and is always partial.
What happens to the freedom of speech, conscience, and expression when it comes to the holocaust? When muslims demand that a certain publication should not be allowed because it offends them, they are told that nobody has the right to not get offended, but such a right is granted to only one people in regards to only one event in history. Is this fair? It is allowed to the offend the majority of the population of the western world, i.e. Christians, but Jews can not be offended.
Let me save some of you the trouble of labeling me an anti-semite or a holocaust denier. I believe such an event happened and I also believe that nazis were evil people who committed atrocities against a whole people which were not justified.
To those who are saying the Palestinians deserve all the suffering they are facing:
Remember such a justification did sound reasonable to the majority of the german people at the time the nazis were killing jews.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
Hareem auntyji...Ever heard of the saying "Jis thali mein khana khatey ho, issmey ched karo"...well this is going kind of off topic but I still did not get my answer about why few Pakis support falastinis as if they are on a honeymoon together. Is it because of religion or just plain simple timepass ? Can't be because of religion because there are more radical muslim countries who are anti-Palestine. I guess the later maybe true, some ppl who perpetually think that "Islam khatrey mein hey" just have too much time on their hands.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
I think questioning whether holocaust occurred or not is a mischievous debate where the purpose cannot be but to hurt the survivors. Sufficient evidence exists to know that such massacre occurred.
Now, if someone wants to debate why it happened etc, I think it is a fair debate, as long as arguments are based on evidence and not racial emotion.
Someone commented that the jews suffered then and muslims are suffering now. I think this is a very wrong statement. Most of the muslim violence today is by other muslims and not by outsiders. Yes Bush has made major mistakes in how the Iraq war has been prolonged but that does not still change the fact that muslim are victims of muslims.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
hmmm… so the only reason one should support a country or any evil deed that country might be committing is whether that country is giving you aid… okey 
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
I think questioning whether holocaust occurred or not is a mischievous debate where the purpose cannot be but to hurt the survivors. Sufficient evidence exists to know that such massacre occurred.
Now, if someone wants to debate why it happened etc, I think it is a fair debate, as long as arguments are based on evidence and not racial emotion.
Someone commented that the jews suffered then and muslims are suffering now. I think this is a very wrong statement. Most of the muslim violence today is by other muslims and not by outsiders. Yes Bush has made major mistakes in how the Iraq war has been prolonged but that does not still change the fact that muslim are victims of muslims.
There is a lot of violence going on in muslim countries by muslims on other muslims but its not mostly the case, even the sectarian violence going on in Iraq is** caused by Outsiders(by invading a country and destabalizing it)**not by muslims.
The fact remains the same that Muslims *are *suffering today.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
It is evident that Pakistan gets crap loads of aids from the US and Saudi which again are kind off anti-palestine, so think again about who is feeding you before you open your mouth against a country/religion/race.
LOL,
we Pakistanis feed ourselves. We don't feed off of US money. US aid is like $600 million a year, while our GDP is $150 billion a year.
And the small aid you do give us goes only to the government, not to the people. Plus you can't buy our opinions and believes with money.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
anti-teutonic laws ...i say
the communists were controlling half the continent classic e.g of pot calling the kettle black.and colonial britain and ffrench were brutally crushing revolts of people in their colonies in asia or africa at the same time
And what does that have to do with anything?
Europe did not want to see the Nazis rise again and that is why they passed these laws.
stalin created death camps in siberia as well where many more people died thats in addition to the ukranian genocide...camps were also kept by turks and by british as early as boer wars
Again people died because they were not fed, diseases, etc. They were not killed the way the Jews were in an industrial mass murder where Trains carried them to death camps and then send inside gas chambers where gas was released killing them. The other genocides occured due to starvation.
Hell, 2 Million Indians starved to death during World War II when the Japanese burned the wheat fields in Assam.
you have only showed ur partisanship here. you like to think all critics of holocaust industry are closet antisemites as u guys cant handle objective criticism.I never denied that jews suffered greatly under nazis and communists . Nor do i blame isreal for everything thats wrong in the middleeast either [arab tyrants shud take the most blame here] . but their suffering is not unique nor are they more worthy of being remembered than other victims
Here is where we differ. I think their suffering is unique. You are equating that someone who died in a traffic accicdent or someone who was murdered. To the immediate family, the grief is the same, but to an outsider, a person who was murdered needs a higher calling for justice.
Most remembered does not make it "most documented" event in history ...if thats true then jesus [pbuh] is certainly the son of God as arguably most books are written on proving this theory
Nope. Jesus does not even come close. I have been to the Death Camps. I went to Poland and Germany and saw the death camps. The Germans kept the name of every single person they killed, Where they were born, nationality, age, occupation, immediate family, and the artifacts they had before they were murdered.
goebbels theory was to repeat lies so many times that it sounds like facts ...looks like he had a wider audience than he anticipated
Don't know what theory you are referring to. But the start of the industrial mass murder occured in January 1942 when all Jews from occupied areas of Europe were being rounded up and send to ghettos in Warsaw and other places. It was in that meeting that they decided to start killing them using Gas.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
I think questioning whether holocaust occurred or not is a mischievous debate where the purpose cannot be but to hurt the survivors. Sufficient evidence exists to know that such massacre occurred. .
buddy,
why the hell should I or any other Muslim care for the holocaust ? We have nothing to do with it. These holocaust threads are started by idiots.
should I feel guilty or give a rat's ass about holocaust ? I don't think so. These events didn't happen in our countries, and we should not feel guilty for something we are not responsible for.
holocaust is as important to Muslims, as was the mexican-american war.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
Ok, so you are going to use Hitler, as a reference to back up your claims on how the Jews controlled the financial wealth of the world. If that were the case, if the Jews were so powerful, how come they failed to convince Roosovelt, the American President to give up the quota system and allow in more Jews from Germany?
No problem
Please go here
Its still an on going project. Most of the records of death camps like Aushwitz were taken by the Soviets and are only now being returned to Poland and Germany from Russia. They are kept in Aushwitz. You can go and see it your self.
Quran does not say that. Either you read a wrong intrepretation or some Imam took it out of context. Islam does not signify Revenge.
I think this question is utter nonsense. The hijackers trained in USA to fly these planes. The most difficult part of flying a plane is the take off and landing which they didn’t have to do.
No need. You are already enlightened.
Well Pakistan bungled into this war purely on racist beleifs that Bengalis were not equal to rest of Pakistanis. So please don’t blame America and Jews for even the most absurd things that Pakistan has done.
What is next. Fail a test and blame America?
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
buddy,
why the hell should I or any other Muslim care for the holocaust ? We have nothing to do with it. These holocaust threads are started by idiots.
should I feel guilty or give a rat's ass about holocaust ? I don't think so. These events didn't happen in our countries, and we should not feel guilty for something we are not responsible for.
holocaust is as important to Muslims, as was the mexican-american war.
Why are you here then? Go and comment in threads which are important to you.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
Why are you here then? Go and comment in threads which are important to you.
Wow hareem, I am impressed
I thought you would have agreed with Brown Sugar
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
Wow hareem, I am impressed
I thought you would have agreed with Brown Sugar
Why would I agree with a person who's calling me an idiot?
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
There is a lot of violence going on in muslim countries by muslims on other muslims but its not mostly the case, even the sectarian violence going on in Iraq is** caused by Outsiders(by invading a country and destabalizing it)**not by muslims.
The fact remains the same that Muslims *are *suffering today.
Yes they are suffering, and sorry, it is mostly Muslims on Muslims. It's their governments, clerics, extremists, sectarianism and wars that have killed millions of Muslims, not outsiders.
The destablization of Iraq is because there is no longer a dictator suppressing the majority population. That dicator was responsible for killing more Muslims than Israel every could dream of.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
Why are you here then? Go and comment in threads which are important to you.
I am here to respond to the holocaust-propaganda machine on this forum
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
Yes they are suffering, and sorry, it is mostly Muslims on Muslims. It's their governments, clerics, extremists, sectarianism and wars that have killed millions of Muslims, not outsiders.
The destablization of Iraq is because there is no longer a dictator suppressing the majority population. That dicator was responsible for killing more Muslims than Israel every could dream of.
Any reference for your assumptions? Or you're being like others? Arguing without facts?
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
I am here to respond to the holocaust-propaganda machine on this forum
Very well. But you don't need to call others names, it makes you look ignorant.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
I am here to respond to the holocaust-propaganda machine on this forum
So far I have pretty much destroyed your arguments
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
Any reference for your assumptions? Or you're being like others? Arguing without facts?
Sorry, those of us who don't rely on what a scholar says about what a another scholar interpreted from a hadith don't all the time think about having someone else confirm facts for us.
I don't have a lot of time here to dig up all the figures for Muslims killing Muslims right now and besides, your post had ZERO references for claiming it's non Muslims responsible for violence against Muslims. Where are those facts?
Here's a few search words for you to google and educate yourself: Iran-Iraq War, Sudan genocide, Iraq-Kuwait war, sectarian violence in Islam, hama, Algeria Islamic fundamentalists, northern alliance vs. taliban, east pakistan genocide
That ought to be enough to keep you busy for a while. See if you can find the figure of 11 million total killed of Muslims vs Muslims that I have heard floated around.
Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam
Sorry, those of us who don't rely on what a scholar says about what a another scholar interpreted from a hadith don't all the time think about having someone else confirm facts for us.
Pardon? What are you trying to say here?
I don't have a lot of time here to dig up all the figures for Muslims killing Muslims right now and besides, your post I referenced had ZERO references for claiming its non Muslims responsible for violence against Muslims. Where are those facts?
I did not claim that its non muslims responsible for violence against muslims all over the world, I was talking about Iraq.
Iraq wasn't like that in Saddam's days like it is now after the forign invasion.
Here's a few search words for you to google and educate yourself: Iran-Iraq War, Sudan genocide, Iraq-Kuwait war, sectarian violence in Islam, hama, Algeria Islamic fundamentalists, northern alliance vs. taliban, east pakistan genocide
That ought to be enough to keep you busy for a while. See if you can find the figure of 11 million total killed of Muslims vs Muslims that I have heard floated around.
This won't be enough to prove that more muslims got killed by muslims than by non muslims.
We can say this about any race, we can say more Christians are killed by Christians themselves than by non Christians, what does it prove?