Re: Jinnah’s Pakistan?
Peace Med911
I agree again … this is fundamentally the difference between our positions.
However, I believe if we create by secular means a society which is philanthropic/charitable (gain of wealth in order to employ and redistribute) in it’s ethos rather than capitalistic (i.e. selfish gain) … we can get the beginning of a good, just nation together. I have major issues with the global financial system at the moment and see that as the noose that enslaves all countries.
However, you said: “I do however believe that can we come closer to being Islamic, without being a declared Islamic country outright” … seems to show me that you are missing my point entirely.
I am not interested in “naming Pakistan an Islamic state” it is already named an Islamic state as are many other countries in the world … Rather your words seem to suggest that you want Pakistan to be more of an Islamic state in the way it operates.
In the attempt to avoid psuedo-Islam we need to understand what it means to create an Islamic state … since you are basically saying a “true secular country” is “more Islamic” than “any” outright attempt to make an Islamic state. My argument is that so far recent attempts to make “Islamic states” i.e. any country formed in the “name” of Islam after mid-1800s has been of a certain zealous approach which lacks wisdom. My idea of formation is “gradual” and “subtle” and I believe Shari’ah accomodates gradualism and review to certain extents. My idea is based on orientation - i.e. we face in a direction that “improves” humanity in our moral outlook and one that is balanced with improvements to lifestyle. Consumeristic capitalism drives improvements in lifestyle without looking at moral barriers to achieve that end. It may seem that many western countries share Islamic values - because they are fair with their people, but if the same societies are allowing that praise to be directed at man and encourage godlessness and infalting of egos and desires then I feel all of the positives are in vain.
I, like you want a country that values life and wants to make people happy and live in comfort above and beyond merely being safe. However I want that country to direct all acknowledgement of that condition towards God. In terms of punishment/sentencing we need to look at the various hadith regarding for example stoning to death … in a very different way.
Consider zina:
An Islamic state that makes Allah (SWT) so loved and being pure and cleansed so desirable then the following will happen:
a) People will avoid sin
b) Those who sin will feel guilty
c) Those who feel guilty will repent
d) Those who repent will want to be cleansed
e) Those who want to be cleansed will insist on full (hadd) sentencing be inflicted on them in this life in order to be spotless in the Hereafter …
Then on the other hand we need a state that will not punish/sentence people quickly but shy away from it … and only when certain conditions are clearly met - i.e. when a person insists on being sentenced after admiting fault several times … then the sentence is given begrudgingly …
There have been societies in the past under Islamic rule (which demonstrates that they are possible) where people take each other to court not because someone else has taken from them, but rather because the other party has not taken enough to value a given agreement … they will insist that no overpayment is made to them (and they do this out of fear of accounting for that wealth that does not belong to them) and take offense if gestures of overpayment are made to them … This is the Islamic state I want .. It needs to be driven by the condition of the individual hearts to create a society that drives goodness from it’s elite … I do not agree with zealous states that try to enforce obedience in to people. (That is the common perception of Islamic state, but it is not mine and the hadith seem to support my view).
I believe this condition can only enter the hearts of people through:
a) Good leadership who give people room to be living without fear of them
b) That leadership instill values of ethics in to society by education and media encouragement
c) That people learn to favour competing for nobility over competing for wealth
d) That various organisation CEOs try hard to earn wealth for the motive of giving more in charity