Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

[Seminole]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

I did not claim that its non muslims responsible for violence against muslims all over the world, I was talking about Iraq. Iraq wasn't like that in Saddam's days like it is now after the forign invasion.

You are right, he actually killed more, but not in the same market suicide bomber fashion that is now taking place. He oppressed, tortured, killed, imprisoned, displaced and gassed whole sections of his people.

The difference was that it was systemized massacre coming from the government. Mass graves dug by the government. Oppression of shias by sunnis - which is probably why it didn't get a lot of crocodile tears shed in the Muslim world.

[Rocking_vibes]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

LOL,

we Pakistanis feed ourselves. We don't feed off of US money. US aid is like $600 million a year, while our GDP is $150 billion a year.

And the small aid you do give us goes only to the government, not to the people. Plus you can't buy our opinions and believes with money.

Then why is the Pakis Govt drooling for pennies(chillar) if the above is true.....lets not even go there.....I am still waiting for a convincing answer abt why some Pakis are obsessed with Palestine more than their own country ? It keeps pointing me to IKMH kind off attitude of ppl.

IKMH=Islam Khatrey Mein Hai

[Brown_Sugar_1]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

Then why is the Pakis Govt drooling for pennies(chillar) if the above is true.....lets not even go there.....I am still waiting for a convincing answer abt why some Pakis are obsessed with Palestine more than their own country ? It keeps pointing me to IKMH kind off attitude of ppl.

IKMH=Islam Khatrey Mein Hai

The Us gives the paki government money to win their loyalty and for rent. The paki government doesn't get money for free, we let the Us use our airbases.

US is not doing us any favor, it pay us rent money for bases it uses.

[Das_Reich]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

[quote]

And what does that have to do with anything?

Europe did not want to see the Nazis rise again and that is why they passed these laws.

[/quote]

understandable but the victors make the rules , that dosent make them any holier , since they have a lot of skeletons in their closet
ref. to the actions of russians, french and brits in other parts of the world

[quote]
Again people died because they were not fed, diseases, etc. They were not killed the way the Jews were in an industrial mass murder where Trains carried them to death camps and then send inside gas chambers where gas was released killing them. The other genocides occured due to starvation
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so whats worse starving to death or getting a good ole bullet to the head.
any sane person will prefer the latter

[quote]

Hell, 2 Million Indians starved to death during World War II when the Japanese burned the wheat fields in Assam.

[/quote]

exactly ! and millions of chinease were BRUTALLY killed by japs ...why dont we remember them as well !

[quote]
Here is where we differ. I think their suffering is unique. You are equating that someone who died in a traffic accicdent or someone who was murdered. To the immediate family, the grief is the same, but to an outsider, a person who was murdered needs a higher calling for justice
[/quote]

starving to death , being worked to death , killed by firebombing , killed in medical experiments are NOT accidental deaths .

[quote]
Nope. Jesus does not even come close. I have been to the Death Camps. I went to Poland and Germany and saw the death camps. The Germans kept the name of every single person they killed, Where they were born, nationality, age, occupation, immediate family, and the artifacts they had before they were murdered
[/quote]

they had 50 yrs to do what they want with the evidence i wud take it with a pinch of salt.

[quote]

Don't know what theory you are referring to. But the start of the industrial mass murder occured in January 1942 when all Jews from occupied areas of Europe were being rounded up and send to ghettos in Warsaw and other places. It was in that meeting that they decided to start killing them using Gas.
[/quote]

[/quote]

allegedly ! infact most jews were killed by SS einsatzgruppen who roamed eastern europe and settled old scores with their own local jewish communities most of einsatzgruppen were non-germans]....yet when red army came they simply switched sides and joined the communists and many live to this day.
the german bosses who ordered these executions mostly escaped punishment , so did their east european thugs , the commi thugs became presidents
only ones to suffer were the german common people and soldiers , men like erich hartmann who spent 10yrs in a soviet prison camp

[hareem01]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

You are right, he actually killed more, but not in the same market suicide bomber fashion that is now taking place. He oppressed, tortured, killed, imprisoned, displaced and gassed whole sections of his people.

The difference was that it was systemized massacre coming from the government. Mass graves dug by the government. Oppression of shias by sunnis - which is probably why it didn't get a lot of crocodile tears shed in the Muslim world.

non sense.

[Seminole]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

Nonsense?? Exactly what part are you in denial over??

[hareem01]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

Nonsense?? Exactly what part are you in denial over??

Prove that Saddam killed more Iraqis than American forces in Iraq have.

[USResident]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

I think I agree with the premise of the article which is we cannot obliviate facts because that pretty much strains credibility when we need to emphasize our own facts, the holocaust occured though it may be an overly emphasized one and taking an unnecessarily major share among tragic events. However yes the interpretation of selective factual evidence is how fissures are created.

[Rocking_vibes]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

The Us gives the paki government money to win their loyalty and for rent. The paki government doesn't get money for free, we let the Us use our airbases.

US is not doing us any favor, it pay us rent money for bases it uses.

Oh yeah really......then why does Saudi and other arab countries provide aids to the Pakis. An how much would it charge India to rent out its bases.....you just crack me up with your hillarious explanation for bheek.

[Seminole]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

Prove that Saddam killed more Iraqis than American forces in Iraq have.

Prove it? How? Facts, reports, figures and stastics are all readily available - unbiased and widely accepted. Surely you are aware of them and just choose to ignore them.

Please tell me that you also know that since the fall of Saddam many more Muslims have been killed by Muslims and not American forces.

[psyah]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

Prove it? How? Facts, reports, figures and stastics are all readily available - unbiased and widely accepted. Surely you are aware of them and just choose to ignore them.

Please tell me that you also know that since the fall of Saddam many more Muslims have been killed by Muslims and not American forces.

Peace Seminole

In Islam when a person is killed though injustice it is as though the whole of humankind is being killed in injustice. Numbers is justification tactic. All who kill defenseless people are tyrrants and will get what they deserve ... eventually!

Present you fact and figures that are widely available and your argument about ... 'I'm not going to do the research for you' begs the question are really trying to speak from a position of truth or just arguing ... go get the info for reasonable debate and discussion. Besides, if they are so widely available then you will not hesitate to bring a reference because it will not cause you too much time to find them.

Please make sure however, that the figures you bring are comparable:

War related deaths of soldiers is not counted in numbers that amount for holocaust type killings, nor will those numbers of people who are trialled and convicted of treason and the likes. However, merely for being a people of a given race or following ... i.e. genocide based figures ... find them and let's dicuss.

To remind you of your claim:
"He oppressed, tortured, killed, imprisoned, displaced and gassed whole sections of his people"

Even though numbers are not important Islamically ... what you said needs qualification ... whole sections ... what is their number as compared to the holocaust?

[Crescent]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

Peace Seminole

In Islam when a person is killed though injustice it is as though the whole of humankind is being killed in injustice. Numbers is justification tactic. All who kill defenseless people are tyrrants and will get what they deserve ... eventually!

Present you fact and figures that are widely available and your argument about ... 'I'm not going to do the research for you' begs the question are really trying to speak from a position of truth or just arguing ... go get the info for reasonable debate and discussion. Besides, if they are so widely available then you will not hesitate to bring a reference because it will not cause you too much time to find them.

Please make sure however, that the figures you bring are comparable:

War related deaths of soldiers is not counted in numbers that amount for holocaust type killings, nor will those numbers of people who are trialled and convicted of treason and the likes. However, merely for being a people of a given race or following ... i.e. genocide based figures ... find them and let's dicuss.

To remind you of your claim: "He oppressed, tortured, killed, imprisoned, displaced and gassed whole sections of his people"

Even though numbers are not important Islamically ... what you said needs qualification ... whole sections ... what is their number as compared to the holocaust?

Bro, no matter what you say, to them lives dont matter.

[Seminole]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

Present you fact and figures that are widely available and your argument about ...

I was responding to someone else's post that said mostof the muslim violence is not by other muslims, but by outsiders. I will wait for that poster to go get the info for reasonable debate and discussion.

[KARAKUSH]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

Nobody denies the holocaust but then history is replete with genocide so why the extra fuss. Holocaust happened but the numbers of jews killed is the topic of debate.

The number creates the magnitude which is why questioning the holocaust is suppressed. Most of them were those who had become part of the gentile portion those who did not remain pure bred jews anymore] of the populations, who refused to leave their homelands and go back to colnoize the territory now known as Israel. These facts are also documented but lack the media propulsion.

thousands of those jews who had come from all over to settle in the israeli territory left israel to return to their homelands after facing hardships and they had to be discouraged. The call from the world Zionist Organization to jews to immigrate to Palestine was ignored. A threat to Jews had to be created in order for them to leave their prosperous lives and immigrate. The founder of WZO , a Herzel or Herzl himself encouraged anti semitism for political gain to 'herd' the jews to Palestine. thousands of german jews were transported to palestine under Hitler's reich in accordance with the havara treaty between zionists and nazis.

Anyways i digress from the topic. Its about the numbers that were killed which is far from what is projected. but people will keep believing, beyond doubt, whatever the media supports over and over again.

[hareem01]

Re: Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam

^Welcome back bro....where were you all this time?