Hisba Bill

[MangoMan]

Re: Hisba Bill

Salaam PyariCGudia!

If you are talking abt external threat to Karachi, I dont remember any country has ever bombed karachi. And if you are talking abt internal threat, the bombs that explode in karachi on regular basis are due to the internal conflicts of the policitical parties and also due to sectarian extremism in karachi. We dont have sectarian violence here in NWFP and Hisba Bill has nothing to do with that. There is a difference between sectarian violence and LAWS ( I wont add Islamic if you mind ).

About the mohtasibs, YES! they are given more powers than they deserve. But it is so because we have lack of democracy here. You know when the opposition was asked if they had any suggestions or objections to the points in the bill, they dint suggest any and just walked away. You cant do anyone a favour by just walking away. Why dint they have their say? Ofcourse perfect laws cant be made by one group alone. They need to be thoroughly scrutinized by all the parties concerned. And then with mutual acceptance a better law can be made. This is what I have been stressing here. We dont listen to each other. We appreciate only things that WE SAY. And discourage everything that comes from OTHERS ( specially the mullahs ).

Now tell me, who is wrong here? those, with watever lill brains they had, tried to give a LAW to this province. or those, with all the reputed degrees and BRAINS, who let the LAW remain as bad as it was, even when they had the oppurtunity to make it BETTER?

[MangoMan]

Re: Hisba Bill

PyariCgudia!

With all respect, Why do you think that low about others?
Frankly, I havnt read the Hisba Bill :P but I have read the Quran with translation And I do read it every morning and every night. I have been reading ahadeeth too.

About the Hisba Bill, as Islamic or UnIslamic, I view at as a LAW. A LAW given to me by the law-makers of my province.

[WitchDr]

Re: Hisba Bill

@PyariCgudia

Shadan, you can have all the freedom you want, but Karachi had better not be bombed for problems going on elsewhere. Somehow whatever happens in the rest of the country - Karachi faces much of the repercussions.

I would really like to know what kind of repercussions are you talking about her.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hisba Bill

Frankly, I havnt read the Hisba Bill

You're supporting a bill that you haven't read? WTF? I rest my case.

WitchDr. - I could write a thesis on it - in short violence you see in khi has for a large part stemmed from what is going on somewhere else in Pakistan. Violence between political parties is an example - they use khi as their blood bath playground. Or well did, until Mushy put the military there a few years ago to give them some danday.

[MangoMan]

Re: Hisba Bill

PyaariCGudia!

It shuldnt sound very strange. Since I have not been supporting or defending any particular point in Hisba Bill. ( Read all the threads n u will know it ). I have been supporting Hisba Bill as a LAW. I have been saying if a law is passed in my province ( a domestic law, not a national one - I hope u understand the difference ), others shuldnt worry abt it. I have been supporting FREEDOM. ( freedom to make laws - freedom of choosing our lifestyle).

If the supreme court doesnt find it contrary to the constitution, then there is no reason why shuld others feel insecure because of OUR domestic laws. Since other provincial assemblies are making their domestic laws too. We have never tried to INTERFERE. its something INTERNAL. It doesnt have anything to do wid our foreign policy or defence or currency or anything NATIONAL.
YES! Pakistan is ONE COUNTRY. But we have DIFFERENT people forming this ONE NATION.
So we can have different domestic laws. We shuldnt fear this DIFFERENCE. we shuld rather accept it. The USA has more DIFFERENT PEOPLE than us. more states. more DIFFERENT DOMESTIC LAWS. They dont interfere in each others' laws. Still they are very much united as AMERICANS.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hisba Bill

It shuldnt sound very strange. Since I have not been supporting or defending any particular point in Hisba Bill. ( Read all the threads n u will know it ). I have been supporting Hisba Bill as a LAW. I have been saying if a law is passed in my province ( a domestic law, not a national one - I hope u understand the difference ), others shuldnt worry abt it.

1. Others should worry about it - we're all one nation. What happens in one area has repercussions on other areas. You have a talibanized style government there, and people will flee - they'll run to Lahore - they'll run to Islamabad - they'll run to Karachi. This will upset economic dynamics. Karachi is a great example of that. Because of people running to Karachi, that city has expanded so fast and it just has not been able to deal with the population expansion. It never expected it. Same goes for afghani refugee camps on the border, and the afghani population coming into Pakistan running away from the Taliban. It totally upset our economy, and brought in heavy drug trade and the kalashnikov culture. Not to mention that we have refugees and we don't even have the ability to support them - they're living like animals, poor things.
   

There is a law in physics, and it so applies to everything else. For every action, you have a reaction. Newton's third Law. There is another law - logical law - the cause-effect law. If you have one cause, then you will have at least one effect. So every event is a potential cause, so there are potential effects. Good and bad. We need to guard against the bad, but I wont get into those details, since you have not read the darn bill.

I have been supporting FREEDOM. ( freedom to make laws - freedom of choosing our lifestyle).

But if the law were unIslamic, you would be opposed to it? If there was a national law that was unIslamic, then you would be opposed to it? If there was an unIslamic law somewhere else in Pakistan - like you can't grow beards in karachi - you'd be against it? I'm sure.

You can support freedom, but that doesn't mean you should blindly support every bill that is passed, especially when other Pakistani institutions are saying it is unsound. Then you are saying that its okay if an elected body brings havoc to their own province. This should not be tolerated at all.

Provincial governments still have ties with the national government and in that respect - each provincial government will be concerned about policies being established in other provinces, since there is the potential that those policies will affect them. This is common sense. Its like if Punjab decides to pass legislation about water running thru Punjab rivers, etc. That water goes into Indus, which goes thru Sindh as well, so Sindh will be concerned about Punjabi legislations on water-issues, naturally. Same with this bill. It has potential wide-range effects.

But you haven't read this Bill, so you wouldn't know it.

If the supreme court doesnt find it contrary to the constitution, then there is no reason why shuld others feel insecure because of OUR domestic laws.

Are you aware that the national government and all the intellects sitting there are saying this is directly contradictory to the constitution? Are you aware that the Supreme Court is reviewing the Bill on the allegation that its unconstitutional? I bet SC will approve it as unconstitutional, and it will not be permitted! I hope so.

Since other provincial assemblies are making their domestic laws too. We have never tried to INTERFERE. its something INTERNAL. It doesnt have anything to do wid our foreign policy or defence or currency or anything NATIONAL.

Every provincial gov't has been aware of legislation/policies of other provinces. You'd be stupid if you didn't keep your eye on your neighbors.

YES! Pakistan is ONE COUNTRY. But we have DIFFERENT people forming this ONE NATION.
So we can have different domestic laws. We shuldnt fear this DIFFERENCE. we shuld rather accept it. The USA has more DIFFERENT PEOPLE than us. more states. more DIFFERENT DOMESTIC LAWS. They dont interfere in each others' laws. Still they are very much united as AMERICANS.

Have your different laws - go right ahead - but those laws should be for local issues that are specific to that province.

Hisbah Bill's statements are setting up a parallel system to what the constitution has set. In effect, its NWFP's own constitution, as if it were an independent nation. Its incompatible with the national constitution. Its incompatible with Islam. Its a piece of crap legislation set up by a political party that has done jack for its province. And they know it.

Elections are coming up - its just an excuse.

As for America - if you know anything about America - you will know that state laws are discussed by people who don't live in those states - by politicians that don't live in those states - by media people who don't live in those states.

And no state ever decided to go against the constitution or to make a parallel police system in the name of religion!

argh.

I can't believe you people don't see how fascist this Hisbah Bill is. Its almost like some Nazi came up with it.

[Zakk]

Re: Hisba Bill

PCG far be it for me to defend Pakistans illustrious political mullahs, but several arguments being made in the media and that you are repeating just reflect the double standards of politicial leaders in Pakistan.

Firsly the parallel system argument, is not unique to the Hisba bill..Pakistans history is littered with bills with two tier systems. As a simple example..right now Pakistan has both a standard judicial system..and a Federal Shariat Court..other examples include exclusive tribunals having been set up to harrass select people “accountable” (laymans terms for ensuring a guaranteed conviction)..besides that the appeal of the Hisba bill comes from what the mullahs promise as “swift justice”, a fact which has enormous appeal in Pakistan..people are fed up of waiting 5 years for a court verdict and paying bribes to judges..the next argument is that it is unconstitutional..considering the present governments legality is very much in dispute..that does sound like a case of the pot calling the kettle black, lastly the whole Islamic Idealogy Council argument is a bit of a joke as well..the new council is very much pro Musharraf.. despite that Mushys government does not always enforce its rulings.

With regard to my earlier comment about the bill and the Supreme Court..the MMA have already said they would accept the Courts verdict :

[MangoMan]

Re: Hisba Bill

Salaam PyariCgudia!

About the kalashnikov culture, the afghan refugees and its economic fallout, this again has nothing to do with the Hisba Bill. These things werent introduced by Us or our assembly.They are a result of our WRONG NATIONAL POLICIES ( those set by the federal govt, not the provincial ).

About the LAW being Islamic or UnIslamic, let the supreme court and the federal sharia't court decide it. ( though as ZAKK rightly said these institutions are run by Pro Musharraf people - like they dont have their own views. they only follow what they are ordered by .....)
But still as a matter of LAW, the verdict of both these institutions will be respected and acted upton.

About keeping an eye on your neighbours, its really wise, but dont u think ONLY KEEPING YOUR EYES ON YOUR NEIGHBOURS will be extremely foolish. Blaming others for your own faults is even more foolish. the problems of karachi are because of its own people ( YES! the politicians of MMA and MQM who blast bombs are karachites - your very own people ). If you want karachi to be peacefull, catch them out and bring on REAL LEADERS from among yourselves. those who can do something for u. who can help you out of this crisis that these theives and mentally ill people have brought you in. We dont have sectarian violence in NWFP either Alhamdulillah. These sectarian killers dont get breeding here either. They get it in the seminaries of your own region and in Punjab. Pointing fingers at others( neighbours) is easy.

About you fear of Hisba Bill, let me tell you its more abt the IMAGE OF MULLAHS or NWFP. Mullahs in your region may be extremists and killers, but its not the case here in our regon.
Its much like the image of Pakistan abroad. You know its horrible. But when you come here to Pakistan, things are not what they appear from abroad. Similarly, NWFP is much different than how uve been told or read.

For me its Heaven on Earth ( with or without these mullahs - since they are a part of our society, so I accept them )

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hisba Bill

Zakk true - but that doesn't mean we should not point out as what is wrong as wrong. The Hisbah Bill is being advertised as Islamic, and its so offensive to me that someone would have the nerve to draft that thing up and call it Islamic. There is nothing Islamic about it, and whoever drafted it doesn't know what the previous successful Shariats in history look like to begin with!

Definitely the present government has its problems, but I prefer Musharraf to Benazir Bhutto or Nawaz Sharif any day - at least they are doing certain things that are awesome for the country. They aren't able to fix all the problems, but no one can do that - I bet I can't - I bet you can't. So I think we should appreciate it where honest attempts are being made, and have the courage to point out where wrongdoings are committed.

And manipulating religion to get political power is like one of the BIGGEST wrongdoings in my book.

I think a mullah playing dirty politics is worse sign of the degradation of society than a crook playing dirty politics.

At least everyone knows the crook is a crook. With mullahs, you might actually get decieved into thinking that what they're saying is "pleasing to God".

[WitchDr]

Re: Hisba Bill

**PCG:

1.  Others should worry about it - we're all one nation. 

 **Self-Contradictory: If we are all one nation, we should think like one nation as well and not about the interests of cities, ethinicities, etc.

 **What happens in one area has repercussions on other areas. You have a talibanized style government there, and people will flee - they'll run to Lahore - they'll run to Islamabad - they'll run to Karachi. 

 **Before MQM, Karachi and urban Sindh were the few areas of the country where Jamiat-e-Islami used to win during elections. The same party is backing Talibans now. The mullahs in N-W.F.P did not create Talibans. Mujaheeden were created by the U.S., British, Saudis and Pakistanis to fight against the Russians in Afghanistan. The reasons are beyond the scope of this topic. They later were given the name of Talibans. Mullahs in N-W.F.P did not create them.

 **This will upset economic dynamics. Karachi is a great example of that. Because of people running to Karachi, that city has expanded so fast and it just has not been able to deal with the population expansion. It never expected it. **

With the daily strikes of the MQM, fighting between different factions of MQM, and sectarian violence, businesses got crippled in Karachi and it has been the biggest cause of recent downfall of business in Karachi and Urban Sindh. Instead of people going there, many large business were moved out of Karachi to relatively stable cities.

Successive governments in Sindh/Capital poured huge amount of money in to Urban Sindh and neglected the rular areas. Lack of economic growth will cause people to migrate from lower economically developed areas to better economically developed areas. They did not leave their cities because Islamic laws were being introduced in their province. That is one of the reason you are in the U.S.A.

 **Same goes for afghani refugee camps on the border, and the afghani population coming into Pakistan running away from the Taliban. It totally upset our economy, and brought in heavy drug trade and the kalashnikov culture. Not to mention that we have refugees and we don't even have the ability to support them - they're living like animals, poor things.**  

The biggest problem of Afghan refugees was in the N-W.F.P and Balouchistan provinces. How many Afghan refugees went to live in Karachi?: Less than 2%. Afghan refugees did not come to Pakistan running away from Talibans. They came during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. They could not go back, because their successive government could never reach a peace aggrement because of their nincompoop leaders and the consistent indulgence of countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the U.S.A, and China. It is known fact that Taliban abandoned drug production. Kalashnikovs were bought by MQM in huge numbers to gain control of the city. I am sure you must have heard that Mr. Altaf Hussain had the plan to sever Karachi from the rest of Pakistan like Bangladesh.

** There is a law in physics, and it so applies to everything else. For every action, you have a reaction. Newton's third Law. There is another law - logical law - the cause-effect law. If you have one cause, then you will have at least one effect. So every event is a potential cause, so there are potential effects. Good and bad. We need to guard against the bad, but I wont get into those details, since you have not read the darn bill.

 **Laws cannot be changed: Neither their wording nor their meaning. Newton's third law states,"For every action, there is an equal and opposite  reaction."
 If you don't want to get into the details, it is better you leave them out then.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hisba Bill

WitchDr:

Karachi is filled with Afghani Pathans who have run away during the Taliban rule. I've met them and seen them working in Pakistan, including Karachi. And Karachi is only one place they went to - even them shifting into NWFP which most stayed in, this is still an example of policies in one region affecting life in another region. In this case, policies in Afghanistan affected life in NWFP and also Punjab (mainly in Lahore, and Pindi) and Balochistan, and also in Sindh (mainly in khi).

Afghanis bringing in the gun culture, etc is another example of policy in one area affecting life in another area. Kalashinikov culture is a very big part of afghani culture, and they brought that in with them, influencing Pakistani Pathans (pushtuns, or whatever you want to call them), and indirectly affecting what is going on in Karachi. So its still a valid example of my point. I didn't say that it was the Taliban that was the only cause. The russion invasion was one cause, and the policies being made in that region were affecting Pakistan. Its only to prove my point that policies in one area of a region affect life in another region, and therefore, policies need to be looked at on a wide scale.

People were saying that its of no concern to anyone that lives outside NWFP, and it totally is. Not just for selfish interests. Selfish interest of what will happen to my own city is justified and absolutely ok. I have every right to worry about what will happen to my family living there, and of all the innocent people living there. But I'm not just worried about that. I'm also worried about what will happen to women in NWFP. How will the Hisbah Bill be applied to them - in the past, religious ordinances and Bills haven't been too nice to women - just look at the Hudood Ordinance (and yes, its a federal Bill, but when did I say federal Bills were all good?)

A correction that I need to make : I never said anything about mullahs in NWFP creating the Taliban. I said that mullahs are trying to IMITATE the Taliban. It is clear that the MMA has supported Taliban leaders in the past - this is fact. Therefore its no suprise that they are trying to imitate some of those policies in the Hisbah Bill - example of the mohtasibs as being just like the department of vice and virtue under the Taliban. Both groups claim this is Islamic, when there was no such department in the Prophet's time or in the caliph's time. And if there were a group of scholars advising the governments in terms of vice/virtue, there was no police force set up by these scholars. Under Taliban, and now under Hisbah Bill, there is a police force made specifically to ENFORCE codes of virtue/vice that do not already fall under enforcable laws mandated by the Quran. (example being of prayer and whether the State can execute you for not praying out of laziness and whether there should be a police force with the specific duty of making sure you do pray).

Your points about MQM are all valid, and never have I supported them. Nor did I say that the Afghani influence in Karachi is the only source of trouble. I merely said it is one source of trouble.

Newton's Law is a metaphor in this case. Newton's law applies to forces - action-reaction pairs. I'm using the law loosely as a metaphor, so no need to take things literally.

[Logo]

Re: Hisba Bill

[quote]
Karachi will be bombed. No, not NWFP. But Karachi. It gives the world an excuse to destroy whatever little economic power Pakistan is beginning to now acquire.
[/quote]

Karachi should be bombed pcg, thats where most of the 500 Arabs arrested in Pakistan came from. The elite of al-Qeada weren't caught in NWFP but in Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, and Pindi.

[Logo]

Re: Hisba Bill

Whats an "Afghani pathan" pcg?

[Logo]

Re: Hisba Bill

@Shadan

No answer for any rhetoric.
Btw why are you sooo concerned abt THE MISERIES that WE DIRTY PATHANS are going to face because of this law? Its only a provincial law. It wont affect you in anyway. And you dont seem very sypathetic of pathans that you shuld be concerned abt our freedom either. Then wats the point in saying all this?
Is it just because like the rest of us you are only good at talking? Is it because like the rest of us you are against LAW and DEMOCRACY.
Oh shyt who m i saying all this. He doesnt know REASON. He is just a fed up crazy guy.

Za mara dictatorship ke democracy ghewaray…Pa chawani haati gooray oh sawaray gay warmanday. Pakistani ke democracy neshta, dictatorship only. Kha MMA we, Taliban de, Al-qeada da, oh kha ANP da, da de toll yu tali spee de, da de Punjab oh Mohajaro. Even Musharaf used Islam in his recent visit to NWFP to win the people of NWFP. He was very “Muslim” in his speech, all Alhamdullah, InshaAllah, MashAllah, even Allah Akkbaar. He mentioned he went to Khana Kabaa 6 times, and that he is a Sayed. After that some emotional khar-pathan stood up and went all bananas with Islam zindabad, musharaf zindabad, allah aakkbaaa allaah hooo etc. etc.

The fact is if Pashtun want freedom, democracy, or even true shariah they will never get it in Pakistan. Because you are a terrorist, you have a beard, you wear shalwar kameez, you where huge turbans and you believe in ALLAH.

[malhot]

Re: Hisba Bill

MMA came to power due to a lack of Democracy-BB & NS were suppressed, and there was a Mulla Military coalition.

So hopefully, MMA do not represent the true feelings of Pakistan.

[MangoMan]

Re: Hisba Bill

Salaam PyariCgudia!

I find your point about laws in one region having an effect on other regions, VALID. But this wont be the case here Insha'Allah. Lets reason it out.

Afghans fled afghanistan when taliban came into power. ( Lets assume its true. Though I personally believe most of the afghans left afghanistan even before the arrival of taliban ). Why did they flee? Because Taliban were not ELECTED by them. They dint like them. But here in NWFP, this provincial govt has got the support of MAJORITY of the people. People knew these mullahs, they knew their intentions, and inspite of that rather I would say BECAUSE of that they voted for them. Now Why would the same people flee this province? Dint they know what was going to happen when the Mullahs will have powers? They knew it. And they WANTED it. Dont tell me they thought that these mullahs will be like some COMPANIONS OF THE PROPHET or some GREAT SCHOLARS. They knew the mullahs and their capabilities because they have been living amongst them all these years. So I dont find this very reasonable that people will flee this province. DONT WORRY. NOBUDY IS COMING TO KARACHI. Atleast not because of Hisba Bill.

[Shaidu1]

Re: Hisba Bill

Asalamolikum,
Well !! choti si gudya or what ever.. I have been reading all these messages and mostly i feel u r more concerned abt khi and one thing i noticed is that u have never an idea of what u r talking bcz u have never been to Peshawar.. Or if u r then u haven't seen the tribal region.
I have stayed in Karachi, lahore, islamabad and peshawar. As my home town is peshawar. The problem with your messages is that you have set your mind set.. Their is no way that NWFP Hasba bill has an effect on Karachi people lives.. If it has an effect it will be on people of peshawar and its not applicable to other provinces.
The other thing is abt klashinkov culture, i will recommend you to read the Book BY pakistani brigadier Yousaf "The Bear Trap" And the ISI only book available that is "Profiles of INtelligence by Brigadier Tirmazi, And you will know who introduce it and who provided everything.. As it will be long to tell u details in one msg.
Abt National interest , it lies in unity rather than divisions but problem with this country is that lack of trust and misguidance by leaders... Not just political but Teachers as well as bearuecracy. Every one is after Money and donot beleive in welfare or social costs to the environment and society.
I had a wrong imaged abt the world untill i went abroad and learned that i was wrong. Its all bcz of the material that i read in my country but what i read and to info what i had access i realised what is wrong in my country.
For ur information pakistan is the only unique country after Afghanistan. And i think now is the toughest time on pakistan as INflation has also reached double digit which is the most dangerous part. But next year it will be estimated abt 8 percent.
Pakistan only has geographical importance otherwise it would have been worse country.. And due to this importance every powerful developed nations try to bring its own people into givernment, and as many powers are playing games so thats why we don't have any stable governments..
Abt your khi situation, even an ordinary patriotic pakistani can become A violent citizen, as there is no way out once stuck in Mobs or once u listen to the damn student Politics..... Khi once the city of lights has not been ruined by afghans... but by MQM and sindhi fights.... MQM first made by Intelligence when expanded and become more powerfull, Army crushed it.... Sindhi and Mohajir has differences before so when benazir Bhutto came she used army to crush Mohajirs... And now when MQM is in power it crushed PPP even it killed the Police officers who were once part of operation against them.
Then comes the Afghan but afghans if u know are normally beggers or doing low level jobs.. and are not part of violence. The real violence comes from Sohrab Got and all are masoud.. The tribal people of NWFP.. And the worst region for Any army. Even currently the Battle is Stopped near Mahsuds area. When Once wanted terrorist Baitullah masoud has now become Leader and greeted by Our core commander LT General Safdar hussain. He was first most wanted and now has bargaining with Army.
I agree that Pashtuns of karachi as personally i know have hands in deteroitting the city law and order but they are not that harmfull and only attacks in revenge or defence.... But what about MQM terrorist Armed wing... So karachi is destroyed by Political forces and now youth are involved for which i feel sorry to say that khi is degrading and is no more city of lights.. FOr business its a hub only bcz of port.. And in future u will see industries shifting towards Gawadher.. But all are political games.....
Abt Hasba bill... well, i am neither in favour nor against but yes one thing is for sure is that its the right of people of NWFP to have what they want as pakistan consist of 5 provinces if we include AZAD kashmir... So every culture and linguistic is different.. ANd trust me on one account... If hasba bill created problem for ordinary citizen then you will see how Mullahs will be hiding from citizens of NWFP.. As its not khi nor LHR, mullahs are powerfull in punjab provinces more than in NWFP.. In NWFP balance of power still exists... Its not same JI or JUI which operstaes in Jamya-e-karachi.... but those who are moderate.... and not illusionist... But i agree in a sense that i donot agree with JI charter and their agendas.... But i judge people by their actions not by personalities.... If one person is right and his character is not good you will say he cannot be trusted but you have ur brain and if u know he is right so be with it... I stand with right no matter who he/she is..
One thing that you will agree is that Karachi City nazim had a best performance in ALL pakistan. And if it was any sindhi or MQM party or even PPP its performance wouldn't have matched as Naimatullah Khan.... BUt i agree to this that he isn't best but better amongst others. And think if it was other u wouldn't even have seen the progress that has been made... The roads still would have been in a very poor conditions.
I also read newspaper and i think the problem is of image... You ar emost welcome to visit peshawar and see the difference.... Here balance is in the form that if THere is Qazi hussain ahmed we have balancing figure of Samiul Haq and Molvi abdul Haq, and for them there is Fazlu rehman group.... SO all are different people with different Minds and different Regions... No one has influence in each other area.... And togather they are ruling NWFP... Otherwise they have lots of differences.... And still you will see Hameed Gul the Advisor to MMA. He is an EX-ISI CHIEF.. and u know once in isi is always in isi.. Do u think he will be against national interest....
The foreign policies and national interest is deeper than we think and is too dynamic.... enemies of past are friends of 2morrow.
Karachi is in worse condition in Law and order situation in compare to other provinces and it problems lies with in itself not with other provinces or with state policies but by its internal people..and internal power politics.
NWFP has a very Good Law and order situation and in 10 years there are no major disastors.... yes i see rape and honour killing in newspaper but u will find more in Punjab feudals rather than NWFP.....
Inshallah latter i will tell you about jirga and other systems and tribal in details so you get a knowledge how the life there....
Now you will be thinking i am defending NWFP but nopes... there are many probs in our region to talk abt and to find solutions.... BUt what my main point is that change the mind set that is made by image same like what do u think will be image of pakistan when people see khi....u know that how many blasts have been in one city....so many business specially foreign delegates donot visit karachi...
Its security is more than American consulate in peshawar who even visits tribal region and has developed personal contacts and by pass ISI brothers.... In khi if u remmeber which leader talked abt anti pakistan... It was Altaf hussain who even commented that he will with the help of Indians take away khi..... Who regret the foundation of pakistan..... But its not his fault bcz any one who has been through all this will hate this country.... as mohajir as brothers has left that country to settle in this ocuntry and should have been accepted as brothers rather than burden. And thats how Mohajir movement was created.. but its not same mohajir movement that was just cause...
How abt PPP in Sind.... whose father got judicially killed ....can she forgive this country....nopes....if you study economic situation in Pakistan and foreign policy in her time you will find like she is having revenge.... MMA who consist of all mullah parties want islamic empire rather than country which is a kind of illussion... And even opposed pakistan.....
So question is who is loyal.... the real prob is that we normal people have made leaders and we sell votes for money... So not you nor me sell vote but majority do... and the people have sympathies like some with Benazir father and some with Nawaz shareef some with moderates... So all thes probs lies between all of our divission... and big problem is Lack of trust that all togather can still live and rule.... But every one is selfish and have their agenda and are never ready to listen to any one else as shadan mentioned it earlier...
Thats the fact and the solution lies in wise decissions like not electing same old leaders who we all know that are corrupt... I agree we have no options but atleast some one new is better than past.....
Enough for today i guess.. shayed kuch zyada penk deya... kher kabhi kabhi dora partha hai.... aewein itni kitabain parhee hai...

KHudai Pa Aman... I mean ALLAH HAFIZ

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hisba Bill

The Hisbah Bill is a sorry excuse for religious law, and its disgusting to say the least. I do not trust mullahs, and I never will, because they're too hard headed and they can't think with open minds. End of story.

[CM]

Re: Hisba Bill

Pakistan Affairs

[CheGuvera]

Re: Hisba Bill

@Logo

Karachi should be bombed pcg, thats where most of the 500 Arabs arrested in Pakistan came from. The elite of al-Qeada weren’t caught in NWFP but in Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, and Pindi.

Amen…lets start with a precision guided munition in the middle of the night of Nine Zero…