Hisba Bill

Hisba Bill

Assalam o Alaikam,
I hope from my depths you all are fine and doing very well and cheerfully. Thank you very much for kind consideration to my comments and respond, which has made me glad.
I realize your said thing like the disbelievers can never be of our friends. I feel they are much educated and have technologies then us; we must used politics and such ways by that we can get technologies.
I think Pakistani Muslims politicians not optimistic and they can never be, they don’t know real meaning of politics, I think politics is backbone of any country or nation (our Islam self said to use reconciliation) according to my thoughts politicians had responsibilities that raise up the such policies on international basis by which we can maintain our precepts before other nations of the world and used such trick to bring up our economic position, they get opportunities form other world for their citizen, they had responsibilities to educate, to train people to face challenges of world and so on so Unfortunately they have not done as although they have been using politics ! My God! They should be died by drown, as such we have been seeing since decades that they have been using politics to make money, to be powerful, to slave their common religious and natives brothers, to demolish them and to plunder the treasuries of country, he is Punjabi, that is sindhi and those are Urdu speaking. I am wonder full that Muslims are fighting for democracy with Muslims. They only hungry of chairs!!
Me and like me lot o people has been hopeless and they remark they Pakistani Muslims and politicians never can be optimistic and democratic, they have been lost optimism, God has grabbed their ability to understand, they forget we will die then what reply on “Judgment day”.
I think we Muslim senseless who thinks in this way that we should only learn religious education, which will be savior for us on judgment day, we not only exist on earth for worship God has given us responsibilities to live with worship. We have no knowledge that all knowledge and education of Allah who dedicate to human to learn to use for advantages and for benefits of human and earths, who nation or country learned the reached in the sky, this is not matter who is Muslim and who is non Muslim real matter is who has done work hardly and honestly on earth that will learn and used it for the benefits of human God must rewarded them now it is not matter He reward for final life or present life, but we Muslim has been failed in both lives in the present and in the final too.
We have only used bigotry, we always discuss about policies of disbelievers but we have never arisen any policy, which can give us protection of disbelievers, every nation and country has rights the can arisen policy in the favor of their citizen and country we should have kept us safe of theirs policies and this job of politicians and policy makers but they never has done as, although they always have been addressing people Europe and America is our enemy and they self always has sat in besides of them only this one is great cause to lose our strength and to be unsuccessful and today we stayed 100 years back from them. I observe most religious prominence goes Europe and America to have good educations and treatments.
My basic and particular purpose to describe this all that you should be arisen such policy by which we can get good things like technologies, educations from other world no enemies. I don’t like “alqaeda” who has demolish perception of Muslims in whole world, it is terrible to me when I try to talk with any foreigner on net they don’t like talking with Pakistani even Muslims from other countries.
It is terrible to me while I talk to live and to pass life accord the saying things of Holy Prophet and education people say you are foolish who lives in the dreams world of foolish, books and real practical lives are different things then our Holy Quar self is like the Book, if we can no follow our lives according to studied book then why we have need to study we stay like animals.
I want to convey you that now time is no fight of weapons going time who the will be winner who will have the good economical position. We should keep safe ourselves by crises.
Thank you very much
Your truly

Re: Islamic Bill In Nwfp

Walikam Assalam Shadan.

I didn’t know that this name is used in N-W.F.P. I have met some Tunisians with this name. Nice name, though.

OK! Whether Hisba bill is good or bad is not another matter at all. This is the heart of the matter. N-W.F.P. is considered the most religiously rigid province in Pakistan. Can you tell me when before this time were any pseudoreligiopolitical party been elected in N-W.F.P. It happened only this time thanks to the disintegration of the political system in the country by the military. (I shall post the religious qualities of MMA leaders in another thread.)

Did you go through the Hisba bill? If it is implemented like this in N-W.F.P, (God forbid) there will be a civil war in the province. Those who are making this bill are deliberately trying to downplay and undermine the consequences of the bill. Forget about the human rights issue which other people so much like to talk about. There is a cultural aspect which needs to be taken into account first.

For Pathans, it is not the religion that comes first, it is their culture that comes first. If you are going to force something onto Pathans, even if it is considered Islamic, but against the Pathan culture, it is not going to be accepted (Don’t tell me Pathan culture is all based on Islamic values). Just as a small example, if you are going to force someone out of his house because he did not come for prayers and you enter forcefully into his house, there is big possibility that you are not coming out of the house alive. People will not tolerate intrusion into their personal lives.

If you think forcing religion onto people will help improve the society, you have no idea what you are talking about. I have many Iranian friends and I know exactly what happened in Iran after the successive governments tried to impose strict Islamic laws in the country. The young generation now hates Islam. Yes they hate it. They don’t want to have any connection with Islam. Don’t believe what a few political spokesmen on the TV tell. The second example is Taliban. Don’t tell me as well, that you don’t know what carnage was spread by the Talibans.

Re: Hisba Bill

Thank You WitchDr!

I respect your views. And I respect anything and everything which is sensible and based on solid reasoning. But what prompted me to write earlier was that some people just hate the Islamic ways. ( i m not talking abt Hisba Bill). They will just oppose everything without even knowing abt it.

Abt the Hisba Bill and the pushtoon culture, YES! it is not the perfect solution. It shuld be ammended. But who is talking abt ammendments here. They are just bluntly opposing it as if it is something very evil. We will never have a perfect solution to our problems. But lets start IMPLEMENTING ATLEAST SOMETHING. LETS START FROM SOMEWHERE. LETS EVEN START MAKING MISTAKES( if Hisba bill is a mistake ) But for God sake do something. We have spent these 58 years doing NUTHING. And nations do EVOLVE. we will also learn from our mistakes. But here nobudy leaves you to do anything.Its all just negative criticism.
I know pushtoons dont accept things which are forced onto them. I am also a fiercely independant pushtoon. And I luv my freedom too. But I also have concern for my religion. I m not the kind of person who just WISHES that things were perfect. I am the one who thinks OK! lets start from somewhere and we will improve gradually. And then the Mullahs here are also pushtoon. If I and You know abt the pushtoon culture, they must also be knowing abt it. If they really want to be successfull, they will take care of pushtoon culture and temperament.

Once again I must tell you very frankly that I dont support any particular person or party. But YES! I support Islam. I want Islam as a deen to be implemented here. I also know that there are people ( probably most of the so called mullahs ) who may not be good muslims, but then exceptions are everywhere. I dont support mullahs, I support Islam.

Re: Hisba Bill

Thank You Lazy daisy;
Thank You Minah pa

Re: Hisba Bill

I am a firm believer in democracy..and I think some of the more secularists on this thread are showing their lack of faith in Democracy. The MMA is basically playing politics, after being thrown on the backfoot by Musharraf over the National Security Council, they now have an election issue to fight on..if their government is removed..they become "martyrs" and thats an issue they can use nationally ( we were removed because we fought for Islam)...

Musharrafs flip flopping is another issue..despite Nighat Yasmins screaming on Geo, the PML-Qs leadership has more in common with the MMA than with any other political group.

Re: Hisba Bill

Does the Hisbah Bill address domestic abuse on women. Because a some of the women in NWFP get physical abuse not only from their husbands but also brothers, sons and fathers. I know of women first hand who were beaten up by their 18 year old sons and there wasn't much they could do.

Re: Hisba Bill

Thankyou Shadan,WitchDr, Zakk and Funguy

this has been very enlightening.

Re: Hisba Bill

Those dirty Pathans! These wife sister mother beaters have no place in democratic free civilized socity of Pakistan where the women, like that of Mukhtaram Mai, are respected and honored. Tu tu tu...

Does the Hisba bill say anything about londay bazi, naswar chewing, drug trafficing jeee?

Re: Hisba Bill

No answer for any rhetoric.
Btw why are you sooo concerned abt THE MISERIES that WE DIRTY PATHANS are going to face because of this law? Its only a provincial law. It wont affect you in anyway. And you dont seem very sypathetic of pathans that you shuld be concerned abt our freedom either. Then wats the point in saying all this?
Is it just because like the rest of us you are only good at talking? Is it because like the rest of us you are against LAW and DEMOCRACY.
Oh shyt who m i saying all this. He doesnt know REASON. He is just a fed up crazy guy.

Re: Hisba Bill

these MMA fanatics have done nothing in their tenure but religous intolerance.. before putting this bill forward did they provided social justice in the society? have police atrocities lessened? did they tried anything to reform the judicial system? did anything to give minorities their rights? provided have-nots respect in society? If not then they r doing nothing for Islam.. just stupid Taliban style jahaliat.. just a show at outward rituals of Islam not the essence..

Re: Hisba Bill

Shadan, NWFP is not a country in itself. Its 1/4 of Pakistan. 1/5 if you take Pakistani-held Kashmir areas into account. 1/4 if you count Kashmir as part of Punjab, which many egoistic Punjabis do.

NWFP and the bills passed therein are a concern for all. Hisbah Bill passes. It gets abused. Taliban-style actions are taking place.

Guess what happens buddy? International attention veers str8 on us next time there is a crazy suicide bomber who happens to be of Pakistani origin, and lo and behold the world finds out there is Taliban Part 2 going on in Pakistan, and its Pakistan's best kept secret.

Pakistan's dirty laundry is out in the open, and you don't need to think hard to figure out what will happen next.

Karachi will be bombed. No, not NWFP. But Karachi. It gives the world an excuse to destroy whatever little economic power Pakistan is beginning to now acquire.

All hard work done in the past few years to change things around for the better get flushed down the toilet.

So darn right you better know that NWFP is everyone's concern because it is part of Pakistan, and its part of every Pakistani's interest.

Re: Hisba Bill

Salaam PyaariCgudia!

I respect your views and I agree with most of what you said.
But I have my own views too.
Look! I believe we really should think abt the repurcussions of something we do ( making laws in this case ). But then I also believe we are FREE people. Isnt it abt freedom? If you cant even make laws for yourself? If you cant even live the way you want to live? Will you call yourself FREE?
I appreciate you. coz ur views show that you are concerned abt the future and wellbeing of the people of this country( including the people of my province). But I would like to live free no matter how long I live. If somebody will kill me and bomb me for my own lifestyle, when I m not dong any harm to them, then I will die innocent. After all we all die. dont we? But dying innocent is much better than dying with fear and dying the death of a slave.
I dont mean to offend u, or anyone but I just want to be myself. And thats wat the people of NWFP want for themselves - FREEDOM (of choice). Its abt beliefs. You may not agree wid me or my views, but then difference is everywhere. We must respect it. We must understand that there are people different than us, with different views, with different lifestyles, with different aims and we must accept and respect this difference. Let everyone live the way they want to - Thats wat FREEDOM is.

Re: Hisba Bill

Shadan:
Are people in NWFP consist of men only.. what about women.. these mullahs dont want women to even vote so how can it be democratic? And even NWFP is anot allowed to go against constitution of Pakistan.. so they cant make a paprallel judiciary that supercedes federal and provincial courts.. they cant annonce independence, foreign policy, currency or army just by passing bills..

Re: Hisba Bill

Salaam Degas!

Degas! YES - NWFP has woman too. But is it only NWFP that has women? Are'nt women not treated as fairly as they should have been in the whole country? Don't you hear and read about the rape cases in Baluchistan, Sindh and Punjab? Dont You read husbands spiling tezaab on their wives in Punjab( and in other provinces). This is a fact! Women are treated badly in our country and they are not given their due rights. People of all provinces should pay heed to this. It has nothing to do with Hisba Bill.

About women in NWFP, I must say you know nuthing ( atleast ur views give such an impression). We have lady doctors, engineers, policewomen, and enuf of our females in all other departments. We have them in the provincial and national assembly. We respect them and their freedom because they are our sisters, mothers and daughters. About the Mullahs not wanting women to vote, these mullahs have their daughters in the assembly. There is only one place (Dir - Malakand Agency) where women have not been voting. But that too has nothing to do with Hisba Bill and the Mullahs. For they havnt been voting for the last 58 years. And these mullahs have just come to power now. Who was in power before them? Ofcouse the other parties who are now pointing fingers at MMA. Infact, these people dont have awareness. Dont make it a political problem. Its a social one. Everyone is involved.

About independance, foreign policy etc, it will be foolish on the part of any province to think abt such things. Hisba Bill will only be enacted, if it is not contrary to the national law. i.e if Supreme court doesnt decide against it. And for that, we dont have to shout at each other. It will be decided by the supreme court.

Re: Hisba Bill

good to see a new addition shadan! i like the way you have presented arguments. i am not completely aware of the hisba bill situation but its nice to hear the voice of people from the region.

Re: Hisba Bill

Shadan,

You are new here. You will find out very soon that some people here are exactly what we call Mushroots in Pushto. You have seen one example. Their single point of view is disruption and chaos. Here is a link to see what he is saying in another thread.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=187850&page=1&pp=30

Re: Hisba Bill

Thank You Wise One;
Thank You WitchDr

WitchDr! We can only pray for ourselves and him. And we can only try not to become like him. After all God has made some people, so that others shuldnt be like dem;)

Re: Hisba Bill

You are confusing something PCG, the assumption that Pakistan would be attacked for an Islamic law..similar laws have been passed in Malaysia..and when there was abuse the parties involves lost power. THe check on whats going is in sequence the opposition locally, the Supreme Court and finally with the approval of the Supreme Court the Federal government. Is the law open to abuse..most definitely..as have most Pakistani laws (few politicians realise they will not always be in power and there maybe a time when the situation reverses)..similar laws have been introduced which had nothing to do with the MMA..Nawaz Sharif passed a Shariah )constituitional amendment voted and supported by many members of the present federal government..the bill was only stopped because of opposition from the provinces in the senate. Similarly Zia ul Haq introduced countless “Islamic ordinances” which were opposed by strong opposition from NWFP, Sind and Baluchistans leaders.

Re: Hisba Bill

Shadan, you can have all the freedom you want, but Karachi had better not be bombed for problems going on elsewhere. Somehow whatever happens in the rest of the country - Karachi faces much of the repercussions.

Zakk - I hope that is just what this Hisbah Bill is - bullcrap that will soon get rejected and be lost in history.

I have no problem with Islamic Law - but the Hisbah Bill is NOT Islamic Law.

You can call a monkey a "duck", but a monkey is still a monkey. Many scholars have read the Bill and they've rejected it on grounds that its not really Islamic Shariat Law, as people are being misled into believing. The Bill is posted in Pak I forum - you can see that it has NO SPECIFIC legislation that would indicate that its Islamic law. All they've done is set up a police system to uphold vice and virtue. That's not what Islamic Law is!!!!

Islamic Law has a component of upholding vice and virtue, and it certainly never has been done by a police force in history, except in Talibanized Afghanistan. There is a discussion up in Religion forum as to whether a police force monitoring things like prayers and making sure everyone goes to prayer is actually Islamic or not. Its frankly not. If you can find me a system where mohtasibs or the like were in place during the Prophet's time or even so much as during the Caliphs time, then let us know. I'm sure you wont find one.

Police force exists under Islamic law to monitor crime, and the like. Not to monitor personal things like namaz, etc.

The mohtasib system is for one reason and one reason only - to have a separate monitoring force controlled by the MMA to look at and investigate what opposition members are doing. They know opposition members are involved in rishwat and other crimes. They are themselves also - but what they want is to eliminate opposition and establish total control in the government.

Mohtasibs have the right to enter any governmental office and do investigations and searches without warrants or prior notification.

Somehow, you guys who support Hisbah Bill are supporting it because someone told you this is Islamic Law, right? But if you don't know what Islamic Law is in the first place, how do you know you're not being lied to?

FYI, the IIC rejected the Bill on the grounds that its not Islamic and they told the MMA to change the Bill on certain clauses.

The MMA refused and passed the Bill anyway - so they not only disobeyed protocol, but when other religigious scholars (who are part of the IIC) told them they were proposing a Bill that is not Islamic, they didn't listen.

No one is saying don't bring in Islamic Law. We're saying that the Hisbah Bill is NOT Islamic Law and that it is being INCORRECTLY advertised as Islamic Law.

Shadan, you need to understand that this is the argument.

Re: Hisba Bill

This is why its REALLY IMPORTANT to be educated in deen AND duniya.

Most people here are in college, or are college graduates, I'm sure. I'm sure plenty of you know the fine details of calculus integration or every economic theory from marxism to capitalism.

But I'm betting that most of you have not even seen what the Sharia looks like, let alone have read essays describing the system. All you know is that its "some sort of law that reflects the Quran and Sunnah". I bet most of you haven't read the whole Quran from front to back, let alone have read even 10% of the hadith's that are out there in the collections.

So exactly how would you know if a Bill that is being legislated is really Islamic or not?