Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

[Captain1]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Babuji

Yes, since that song is officially designated as the Indian National Song. Clear ??

I'm not saying whether it is designated yet or not, that is not the question, read again.

[Babuji]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Captain1

I'm not saying whether it is designated yet or not, that is not the question, read again.

I did answer the question - probably you did not understand it. It does not matter whether the song has Hindu flavour or Muslim flavour. It has been designated as the national song and not as a Hindu song. So there should not be any option/choice on whether to sing it or not.

We do not have any option on flying our flag vs. any other country's flag. Why ? The Indian flag has the Ashok Chakra (from Emperor Ashok - a Hindu who became a Budhist). If we allow people to choose whether or not to respect national symbols, tomorrow someone will say why should I fly a flag which has Hindu/Budhist connotation.

[Babuji]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@quas

If muslims in India are frustated, forming another Pakistan or a sovereign muslim nation carved out of India could be a solution and I think anyone who's oppressed has a right to voice his/her opinion- I really don't give a damn about another muslim nation in the subcontinent cuz we already have 2. But I would request that the lovers of MQM and mota altaf please join the new muslim nation and leave our beloved Pakistan as they might be feel less violent in the new "Pakistan" or "Urdustan" living with their Bhindian muslim brothers practising *********ed Lucknowi shero-shayari culture. We Punjabis were happy before partition in the (west) Punjab and partition brought a lot of chor, thugs from Agra, Delhi, Lucknow who never embraced Pakistan yet and yet talk of being a muslim. We accepted their language(Urdu) but sadly they never make an effort to learn Punjabi.

Now, if only some Indian muslims realized how they are perceived in Pak, that would make them appreciate their homeland more.

[vineshvk]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Captain1

No, you are looking at the issue with you own glasses. There is nothing wrong with "nationalistic" songs, not a single scholar in Pakistan has raised an issue about nationalistic sounds as against religion. Again, if the song is just 'nationalistic' then no problem, but if it conflicts with religion then those with religion as their priority will speak and are speaking. If Muslims are not allowed to bow to any other entity than Allah then thats that. Doesn't matter how respectful you are to your mother, you can't equate her to God, she didn't "create" you.

I dont know who created you, but i was created by my mother. Bowing infront of your mother is bowing infront of God. It is the mother who taught you what God is. It is not a disrespect to God if you bow infront of your mother. I think its better than bowing infront of an abstract being.

[Captain1]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Babuji

I did answer the question - probably you did not understand it. It does not matter whether the song has Hindu flavour or Muslim flavour. It has been designated as the national song and not as a Hindu song. So there should not be any option/choice on whether to sing it or not.

That is the issue, Hindu flavored song is 'nationalised' and being forced down everyone's throat.

[quote]
We do not have any option on flying our flag vs. any other country's flag. Why ? The Indian flag has the Ashok Chakra (from Emperor Ashok - a Hindu who became a Budhist). If we allow people to choose whether or not to respect national symbols, tomorrow someone will say why should I fly a flag which has Hindu/Budhist connotation.
[/quote]
If you change your flag to include a trishol (symbol carried by pundits?) then there will be trouble, of course being Hindu majority you can always do it but there will be trouble afterwards just like its happening now in case of song.

[Captain1]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@vineshvk

I dont know who created you, but i was created by my mother. Bowing infront of your mother is bowing infront of God. It is the mother who taught you what God is. It is not a disrespect to God if you bow infront of your mother. I think its better than bowing infront of an abstract being.

See, that is the issue, this belief of God comes from Hinduism and is against Islamic belief, hence the opposition from Muslim leaders to this song.

[Babuji]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Captain1

That is the issue, Hindu flavored song is ‘nationalised’ and being forced down everyone’s throat.
If you change your flag to include a trishol (symbol carried by pundits?) then there will be trouble, of course being Hindu majority you can always do it but there will be trouble afterwards just like its happening now in case of song.

You can really argue in circles, can’t you ? This ‘Hindu flavored song’ was the front runner for India’s national anthem and due to Muslim pressure lost out to the current anthem. And so it was designated as the national song. I don’t think there is any question of choice about accepting the national song. Tomorrow someone will say I will not accept XYZ as my prime minister because he is a Hindu. If you are an Indian citizen you should damn well accept it.

Some Muslims in India think they are above the state just because of their religion. Be it adoption of Sharia law or issuing fatwas against insurance company (latest gimmick by some mullahs). Well, that does not work. Either live like an Indian or get out.

[Babuji]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Captain1

If you change your flag to include a trishol (symbol carried by pundits?) then there will be trouble, of course being Hindu majority you can always do it but there will be trouble afterwards just like its happening now in case of song.

Either make an effort to read up on Hinduism or don't quote things which are incorrect. Trishul is just a symbol. Its not carried by pundits. Wonder where you get all this news from ?

[system]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@anjjan

////\ Are you sure that your are praising the Muslims of India. The other way it looks like an insult to them.

I dont really have much respect for them… They have let themselves and their community down. But on the other hand, atleast they make some effort to have a voice.

[system]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Babuji

I think not singing the national song and making a religious issue about it is just a way for them to camouflage their anti-national feelings. Such Indian Muslims who do not respect their country should be deported to Pak

This is one of the reasons why we made Pakistan in the first place… So we dont have to salute and prostrate before Matarum. Indians wouldnt understand.
Even in Pakistan, if forced to choose between the nation and Islam, even most moderate Muslim would choose their faith. Faith is eternal, nationality is fleeting.

[system]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Babuji

The country was divided along religious lines in 1947 to address the needs of those Indian (at that time) muslims who felt that their religion came before country and hence they wanted an Islamic state. Those who stayed back in India chose to do so, knowing fully well that its not an Islamic state. So now playing the religion/Islam card does not make sense.

And if the the tremendous support/concern by the Pakistani guppies for the Indian Muslims is any indication, I am sure Pak would be happy to have them

We would love to have them… Its only a testament to the fact the Muslims can never live in a Hindu Indian state.

[system]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Babuji

Who are you trying to BS ?

Read this & you will know whose religious rights are protected in Pak

http://www.mid-day.com/news/world/2005/november/123248.htm

Atleast in India, we dont forcibly convert Muslims to Hinduism.

No you make laws that make it illegal for Hindus to be converted to any other faith…
And you dont convert them, occasionally you go on all out orgies of ethnic cleansing…
Nothing wrong with that

[Captain1]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Babuji

You can really argue in circles, can’t you ? This ‘Hindu flavored song’ was the front runner for India’s national anthem and due to Muslim pressure lost out to the current anthem. And so it was designated as the national song. I don’t think there is any question of choice about accepting the national song. Tomorrow someone will say I will not accept XYZ as my prime minister because he is a Hindu. If you are an Indian citizen you should damn well accept it.

Feeling running in circles already? If you keep defending nationalising of a Hinduism-flavored song then I presume you didn’t have problems with Talibanisation of Afghanistan, or “theocracy” of Iran? If India claims to be “secular” then it must stay that way unless India wants to become Hindustan.

[Captain1]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Babuji

Either make an effort to read up on Hinduism or don't quote things which are incorrect. Trishul is just a symbol. Its not carried by pundits. Wonder where you get all this news from ?

I might be calling it by wrong name, but its only carried by Hindu religious leaders, placed-by different statues. I am not suggesting trishul as sacred symbol or anything.

[system]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@vineshvk

No..resisting a song with natinalistic flavor is anti national behaviour. What is the problem with some muslims in singing vande matharam. They dont even like the idea of saying vandematharam. Why cant muslims bow to their mother who brought them to earth.

Because According to Islam, Muslims only bow their head to god. To bow before anything else is Shirk or sin… Its equating that which you are bowing to God himself. Considering Mother India as holy is a Hindu concept, since Hinduism was born and raised in India. For Muslims, Indian nationality will only last so long as they are alive and no longer.

[Babuji]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@PaKpatriot1

No you make laws that make it illegal for Hindus to be converted to any other faith…
And you dont convert them, occasionally you go on all out orgies of ethnic cleansing…
Nothing wrong with that

I know its difficult for you, but try & read the post & attached link and respond to the post. Don’t perennially keep harping about your wet dreams.

Do you have any response to the forced conversions of Muslims in Pak, other than pointing a finger at India. I guess not…

[Seminole]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@PaKpatriot1

Because According to Islam, Muslims only bow their head to god. To bow before anything else is Shirk or sin... Its equating that which you are bowing to God himself. .

It is only equated to bowing to God if the person doing it equates it to bowing to God. Bowing is cultrual, not religious in nature. ONLY if you make it religious.

[Babuji]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Captain1

Feeling running in circles already? If you keep defending nationalising of a Hinduism-flavored song then I presume you didn't have problems with Talibanisation of Afghanistan, or "theocracy" of Iran? If India claims to be "secular" then it must stay that way unless India wants to become Hindustan.

I guess we are back to square one. The national song is not a Hindu song so attaching Hindu connotation to it is pointless.

[system]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@Seminole

It is only equated to bowing to God if the person doing it equates it to bowing to God. Bowing is cultrual, not religious in nature. ONLY if you make it religious.

Point taken, but bowing in Islam is equated to god… Thats fact. How can any self respecting Muslim ever bow to anything else?
The point still remains that whether the Indian govt likes it or not, the Muslims equate bowing to God and to pressurize Muslims to bow to the Mata is still wrong.

[Seminole]

Re: Hindu Extremists to force Muslims to sing Hindu religious songs

@PaKpatriot1

Point taken, but bowing in Islam is equated to god... Thats fact.

No it's not. That's culture, although sometimes that line is indistinguishable.