Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

[yamahaguy]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

@Tanvir S.

Thanks for the self-righteous lecture, Mr. Holier-than-Thou.

Why don’t you go check the status of all religious minorities in India.
Pehlay apnay ghar mein to jhaaroo de lo.

When was the last Christian nun or priest burnt alive ?
Or other lower-caste Hindus who dared convert to Christianity ?

LiveLeak.com - Orphanage Torched,Nun Burnt Alive In India by Mobs

Sick and tired of the pot calling the kettle black mentality.
I think each side should criticize their own rather than lecturing the other side.

BhaiJaan I never compared India and Pakistan. I’m comparing freedom of religious minorities in western countries to Pakistan.
I dont know why people like you love to drag India into every Pakistani discussion. Progress report of India might not be as good as western countries but at least in India you can be a jewish and Indian at the same time.
Now that you have dragged India in to this…let me give you a little more info: Indian Army has Jews, Chirstians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs as Generals, Lt Generals and Major Generals. JFR Jacob (jewish) served as COAS of Indian Army, IAF Air Cheif NAK Browne is a Christian, Lt Gen Syed Atta Hasnain is incharge of most important northern command of Indian army. Current army chief is a Sikh Bikram Singh.
Can a person be jewish and Pakistani at the same time???

[Zero_one]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

.

[Zero_one]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

Besides being something personal, religion should also never get too political.

That's one issue that muslim countries will always struggle with IMO. the religion itself is quite political. The focus should be on personal spirituality vs political or society control.The whole notion of an all encompassing holy book and stringent rule set that is supposed to govern every aspect is no good as it results in rigidity and failure to adapt.

^the basic teaching of Islam as illustrated by the Holy Prophet Mohammad PBUH was to work on yourself and present urself with ur deeds and not words/tall claims .... how often do we come across ahadeeth where his Sahaba asked him something and after the third time they put forward the same question he answered ..... this again is a clear sign that not by claims but pure deeds he led his followers

There are many occasions but i'll mention only two of them

1. The incident on the Wa'adi Taif when Angels appear to him asked if he should crush the town, whose PPL insulted him, threw stones at him, injured him, under the Mountains .... Yet his Answer to the Angel.... No don't do so maybe some of their descendants may convert to Islam

2. The moment he Entered Makkah with 10000 of his companion ..... how Many were killed .... how much bloodshed due revenge ..... After all these PPL had mistreated him and his companion (and killed some of them), fought wars against him ..... yet he simply forgive them all

He the Holy Prophet Mohammad PBUH worked on himself all life ..... and was an example of being truthful, Mercyful, Righteous

Does anyone see the above mentioned in Pakistan or socalled Islamic Nations ..... That Answers is equivalent to the amount of Islamic Teaching left in their deeds

[Nikema]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

Besides being something personal, religion should also never get too political.

That's one issue that muslim countries will always struggle with IMO. the religion itself is quite political. The focus should be on personal spirituality vs political or society control.The whole notion of an all encompassing holy book and stringent rule set that is supposed to govern every aspect is no good as it results in rigidity and failure to adapt.

As Zero one indicated

This is quite an insensitive & almost a provocative statement without knowing **exactly how Islam is supposed to be practiced and **without doing a detailed analysis of religion/faith. Unless you have done that, your opinion seem quite a bit disrespectful.

[jaanaan]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

As Zero one indicated

This is quite an insensitive & almost a provocative statement without knowing **exactly how Islam is supposed to be practiced and **without doing a detailed analysis of religion/faith. Unless you have done that, your opinion seem quite a bit disrespectful.

Truth is usually insensitive. that is why it hurts.

[jaanaan]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

@yamahaguy

Can a person be jewish and Pakistani at the same time???

I doubt that. this country was supposedly made for muslims, and that too for certain sects. you can not be anything other than that. you can not be an Ahmadi and a Pakistani. people will throw you out of this country even if you are a brilliant, patriotic scientist.

[Med911]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

If simply broadcasting a live conversion was enough to make the hindu community fear the worst of the worst repercussions, then isn't it also justified why the muslim minorities in the non-muslim countries often protest so strongly about anti-Islam propaganda considering hate crimes are on a rise? They’re not protesting to publicized conversions, they’re protesting to filth like the Dutch documentary or the French cartoons or the notorious Indian media’s fabricated reports or Terry Jones’s Quran burning sessions. So why is it that we, myself included, label those protests silly and irrational? I can pull up tens of posts from here saying that those muslims are being hypersensitive and they can leave the country if they feel threatened/offended, instead of saying yeah the authorities should respect the sensitivities of the minorities. I mean why should a non-secular country come under greater scrutiny than a secular country for allowing hate speech?

I think this issue is being blown out of proportion. Let me put it this way… let’s say Indian muslims protested against persecution, that would make complete sense. But if they created so much uproar over some bollywood movie scene or some star plus controversy, that wouldn’t make any sense to me. Similarly, I don’t get the uproar over telecasting a conversion (unless it was forced or Hinduism was bashed) but I stand by the Pakistani minorities in speaking up against the persecution and putting pressure on the government to put an end to it.

First of all, no one is claiming that people protesting in Europe are being Silly other then you. At least I never said that. They have every reason to protest, and every right to protest.

Secondly, there is a very obvious ad very simple distinction that can be made between the Dutch and Pakistan.
In Pakistan there is a long history of vocal, AND OFTEN VIOLENT, oppression of minorities. The minorities in Pakistan are genuinely far more politically marginalized and far more insecure then those anywhere in Europe. The significance of such incidences in Pakistan are far greater then a similar incidence in Europe where bigotry and discrimination are not as firmly ingrained within the psyche of the people and the laws of the land as they are in Pakistan.

So if you truly feel for the minority plight in Pakistan, you can start by ditching this false equivalence to the Dutch or anyone else in Europe, and acknowledge that the concerns of minorities in Pakistan have t be understand within the context of Pakistan itself, and not through comparisons with other countries.

[Med911]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

\ The media war against anything religious in Pakistan just goes on rampant and DAWN among these is one 'special' outlets.

Its like muslims in Pakistan are unnecessarily being thrown in to defensive position by few noisy people.

Dawn is perhaps the most respected news paper in Pak. Suddenly you question their ethics because YOU don't agree with their opinion?

And Muslims in Pakistan should be on the defensive for many reasons. And much of that criticism of Pakistani Muslims is legitimate. The treatment of minorities within Pakistan is a disgrace.

[rangoli]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

[mod]stick to the topic everyone, be respectful to others views/faiths and kindly refrain from posting inflammatory stuff[/mod]

[Med911]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

@diwana

I see the issue of showing conversion unnecessarily tied to the minorities feelings of being threatened.

Whatever points you wrote can be individually answered but I can answer in general and you can see what you wrote in bold actually is due to:

1- Feeling bad for a non-muslim to convert to Islam. Understandable from a non-muslim's point of view but it hardly shows 'hatred' of those who do not have desire to convert.

2- Unnecessarily connecting this event to......spread of 'discrimination'.

3- And what does it mean the boy was 'influenced'? Are you implying forced conversion?

4-You are trying to prove that this is the reason why there are so few of non-muslims in the country, in fact reasons maybe entirely different. Separate discussion.

5- You said people will think if this boy can convert why not others? Again this is just unneeded connection being made since the event was shown on TV.

**Why not think that a lot of muslims would think of being extra nice to others so perhaps others would follow the example of this boy?

And perhaps by this way 'discrimination' would be less when majority would feel there is a potential for conversion without use of any force. **

P.S. I never defended any mob or shed tears for any mob. Prove it I dare you. :)

Try to look at it from the prospective of the minorities here, not from the majority.

Regardless of how the Muslim majority perceives this, the minorities will still feel threatened. Because ultimately, its their community that is losing. Its they who are losing members of their community, its they who are losing their heritage.

And regardless of how "nice" Muslims will be in trying to convert the Hindus, the act of conversion will itself be perceived as hostility, however passive it is on the surface.

I would encourage u to think out of the box here. How would you like it if you were a minority, say in a Christian community, and that majority was quietly, and through very non hostile and "nice" means, trying to convert you or your children by encouraging them to leave Islam? And lets say this community you knew to have very strong history of persistent hostility and violence towards your kind in the past, both latent and overt. Would still consider this a non issue?

ps: You misunderstand. I didn't say you supported them. Your sympathy wasn't towards their cause, but you sympathized with them as Muslims. So in that case you showed some degree of sensitivity towards the mobs humanity, even though they behaved like rabid dogs, yet I don't see that same sensitivity to the issues that affect Non Muslim minorities in Pakistan. Another words, you are only sensitive toward Muslims.

ps: Regardless of your "support" of minorities in Pakistan, supporting their conversion, ultimately means you support a Pakistan in which no minorities are left.
So you support minorities, but also their conversion to the majority! I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

[Med911]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

@psyah

Good for Maya Khan for showing something better than her previous attempts … A person can change or improve or become wiser … I’m a strong believer of that …

The people who are “playing the victim” - are doing just that … they are annoyed if people convert - if on air - it makes them feel worse - it makes them feel that others would make them feel “subdued” towards doing the same … It scares them to see people convert … the intolerance is not coming from the Muslims - it is coming from them …

Again… Whether we are tolerant of non-Muslims is irrelevant if there are no Muslims left to be tolerant off.

Tolerance is judged by our treatment of people as they are. Tolerance means you allow them to BE. If we are actively trying to convert them and encouraging such things, thats not being tolerant.

Oddly enough, you would want THEM who are being converted, to be more tolerant of we who are converting them. To destroy a minority through conversion, however peaceful, is the same as obliterating their heritage by force. EITHER way, they lose.
You are literally saying that they should tolerate the slow demise of their own society…

Now conversion is fine in principle, we should allow all people to chose their faith and for all people to peacefully propagate their faith as they like. However, injustice here is in the fact that in Pakistan, only muslims are allowed to propagate their faith, and no one else. And so here lies the issue at hand.

[MirwaisHotak]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

Islam gives freedom to other religions to practice their faiths freely, so in that sense everyone is free to do so in Pakistan.

Pakistan was created because muslims were not really given that freedom in India.

Btw, I think converting religion is a personal thing and should not be made into viewing entertainment, especially as it is likely to offend the people of the faith being abandoned.

This kind of talk should be stopped. We are learning our morals from western disney movies rather than our own traditions. Young people are saying crazy things. In islamic state non-muslims cannot practice their faith freely. I repeat they cannot practice their faith freely. We would never allow other religions to try to spread their religions through proselytism. If jehovah witness came to pakistan they would be finished.

Also young disney people are saying that we would go crazy if muslim left islam on TV. This not true, islam has method to deal with murtad and people would not go crazy.

[Med911]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

@MirwaisHotak

This kind of talk should be stopped. We are learning our morals from western disney movies rather than our own traditions. Young people are saying crazy things. In islamic state non-muslims cannot practice their faith freely. I repeat they cannot practice their faith freely. We would never allow other religions to try to spread their religions through proselytism. If jehovah witness came to pakistan they would be finished.

Also young disney people are saying that we would go crazy if muslim left islam on TV. This not true, islam has method to deal with murtad and people would not go crazy.

Lo, ek aughr nikul aya!

If this is Pakistan, I wish my ancestors had migrated to India with the Hindus and Sikhs.

[MirwaisHotak]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

read earlier i defend this might be wrong practice because what ansar burney said

[diwana]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

Dawn is perhaps the most respected news paper in Pak. Suddenly you question their ethics because YOU don't agree with their opinion?

And Muslims in Pakistan should be on the defensive for many reasons. And much of that criticism of Pakistani Muslims is legitimate. The treatment of minorities within Pakistan is a disgrace.

I never took DAWN as very respected newspaper. I have mentioned my criticism of reporting by DAWN before. Not all of sudden.

it caters few percentage of population of Pakistan, not only being an English language newspaper but also its articles periodically which do not conform to
majority people of Pakistan. No time for that now, but if I find those, will definitely mention.

Try to look at it from the prospective of the minorities here, not from the majority.

Regardless of how the Muslim majority perceives this, the minorities will still feel threatened. Because ultimately, its their community that is losing. Its they who are losing members of their community, *its they who are losing their heritage. * And regardless of how "nice" Muslims will be in trying to convert the Hindus, the act of conversion will itself be perceived as hostility, however passive it is on the surface.

I would encourage u to think out of the box here. How would you like it if you were a minority, say in a Christian community, and that majority was quietly, and through very non hostile and "nice" means, trying to convert you or your children by encouraging them to leave Islam? And lets say this community you knew to have very strong history of persistent hostility and violence towards your kind in the past, both latent and overt. Would still consider this a non issue?

ps: You misunderstand. I didn't say you supported them. Your sympathy wasn't towards their cause, but you sympathized with them as Muslims. So in that case you showed some degree of sensitivity towards the mobs humanity, even though they behaved like rabid dogs, yet I don't see that same sensitivity to the issues that affect Non Muslim minorities in Pakistan. Another words, you are only sensitive toward Muslims.

ps: Regardless of your "support" of minorities in Pakistan, supporting their conversion, ultimately means you support a Pakistan in which no minorities are left. So you support minorities, but also their conversion to the majority! I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

Two issues you discussed. I already talked about those earlier.

One is not feeling good and feeling remorseful of losing a person of one's religious community is different than saying that conversion on TV promotes threatening feelings among the minority.

All throughout this thread I had problem with the latter.

*There is no connection between showing conversion on TV, to intimidating the minorities. This is all made up.
*
The minoroty members/leaders, their supporters should come out and say the truth that they did not like conversion.

Now, on one hand it is said that it is a personal choice of a person to follow a religion and should be a personal choice of the person to leave a religion, then why so wavela/outcry if a hindu boy willingly comes out on TV and changes his religion.

Double standard? Right?

Regarding the mob, I never supported them, I proposed their punishment under the law.

I was merely against shooting with real bullets. I even asked everyone ANY example of that around any 'civilized' part of the world.

No one could come up with that example.

[Ghost14]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

Don't bother with Diwana. The bolded part above is something that we are supposed to take as fact, even though one can logically infer that the opposite might be true.

[diwana]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

I can change to regular text if you like. ;)

[Southie]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

[mod]stick to the topic everyone, be respectful to others views/faiths and kindly refrain from posting inflammatory stuff[/mod]

I did not see anything inflammatory in the few posts ahead of your message. Healthy debate going on in those posts IMO. Posts were linked to the topic. Maybe I am missing something?

[Southie]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

Try to look at it from the prospective of the minorities here, not from the majority.

Regardless of how the Muslim majority perceives this, the minorities will still feel threatened. Because ultimately, its their community that is losing. Its they who are losing members of their community, its they who Arequipa losing their heritage.

And regardless of how "nice" Muslims will be in trying to convert the Hindus, the act of conversion will itself be perceived as hostility, however passive it is on the surface.

I would encourage u to think out of the box here. How would you like it if you were a minority, say in a Christian community, and that majority was quietly, and through very non hostile and "nice" means, trying to convert you or your children by encouraging them to leave Islam? And lets say this community you knew to have very strong history of persistent hostility and violence towards your kind in the past, both latent and overt. Would still consider this a non issue?

ps: You misunderstand. I didn't say you supported them. Your sympathy wasn't towards their cause, but you sympathized with them as Muslims. So in that case you showed some degree of sensitivity towards the mobs humanity, even though they behaved like rabid dogs, yet I don't see that same sensitivity to the issues that affect Non Muslim minorities in Pakistan. Another words, you are only sensitive toward Muslims.

ps: Regardless of your "support" of minorities in Pakistan, supporting their conversion, ultimately means you support a Pakistan in which no minorities are left. So you support minorities, but also their conversion to the majority! I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

The depth of this post is simply beyond words.

[rangoli]

Re: Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan

I did not see anything inflammatory in the few posts ahead of your message. Healthy debate going on in those posts IMO. Posts were linked to the topic. Maybe I am missing something?

I think you missed out on Sharabee and Janaan posts!