Hadeeth were written after the Prophet (S) time. This is bec there was no need for them since those who had ?s could ask him directly.
As for the inauthentic hadeeth, they are narrated for 2 purposes. One if its inauthentic, you know the person who narrated the hadeeth is a liar. 2nd it shows if the person is known to have a bad memory.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Muslim_Queen: *
FG you are wrong.
For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in God's praise -- for them has God prepared forgiveness and great reward. Quran 33:35 ]
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims) and not annoyed..." (Qur'an 33:59)
The Qur'an says: "Say to the believing man that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31)
Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested."
And if you disagree with the translation then there is still another way to be sure.Just observe how the wives/daughters of the Prophet lived/dressed etc
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...... I read the translation on different websites. They all agree on one thing. As much as I thought I would find contradiction, I didn't. However, none of the sources could prove that IT IS AN OBLIGATION TO WEAR HIJAAB. The concept of having a beard is no different than wearing Hijaab....
Acha jee whether you have to wear one or not aside Chameli chanda i know what you mean. I don't wear one but it's thoughts like these that put me off it. I mean there's days you just want to doll up and let the curls flow. Tucking them away forever ...seems tough.
The people who wear Hijaab like to feel it is mandatory otherwise they would be going through all the hassle for no reason. the high on the moral horse isn't too bad either. As to the rest of us, we remain happily and knowledgeably loose haired.
so how many of you non-hijabis will admit to praying salah, going into mosques, performing hajj etc without hijaab?
its one thing to not observe hijaab whilst admitting thats it is required and quite another thing to totally deny the requirement of hijaab.
Islaam is not pic n' mix.
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*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
so how many of you non-hijabis will admit to praying salah, going into mosques, performing hajj etc without hijaab?
its one thing to not observe hijaab whilst admitting thats it is required and quite another thing to totally deny the requirement of hijaab.
Islaam is not pic n' mix.
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You brought up a very irrelevent point.... How can one pray without hijaab? Keeping hijaab all the time and wearing it for prayers are two different things.
No one's totally denying the requirements of hijaab... no one! ....
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*Originally posted by hiccup: *
**The people who wear Hijaab like to feel it is mandatory otherwise they would be going through all the hassle for no reason. the high on the moral horse isn't too bad either. **As to the rest of us, we remain happily and knowledgeably loose haired.
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Absolutely...
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*Originally posted by Dimagh_HotaToNa: *
Keeping hijaab all the time and wearing it for prayers are two different things.
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Please explain how exactly.
So we've gone from...hijaab is absolutely not required...its not required except for a coupla things....
and ever so slowly we make some progress...
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*Originally posted by Dimagh_HotaToNa: *
You brought up a very irrelevent point.... How can one pray without hijaab? Keeping hijaab all the time and wearing it for prayers are two different things.
No one's totally denying the requirements of hijaab... no one! ....
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And this was your reply before the above comment:** However, none of the sources could prove that IT IS AN OBLIGATION TO WEAR HIJAAB.**
This was one of your posts.Either you're confused or you forgot what you said before.
Bottom note, people who are wearing the hijab do so because they believe it is correct.They dont have to invent any ayahs to make themselves feel better.If the non hijabis dont wish to wear it, they should be happy with their decisions.However, thats not enough of a reason to deny the ayahs that do exist about hijab.
oh and i have more than a couple of questions for funguy too. Will post later.
I did a paper on this some time ago. I was looking up interpretations about the verses in the Quran about covering yourself and modesty. One of the websites I looked at said they had to be interpreted in a historical context as at that time, women covered their heads but did not cover their bosoms properly. They made the argument that that was the reason Allah explicitly asked women to cover their bosoms but not their heads, because their heads were already covered.
I think even if an issue is ambiguous, soemtimes we are better off erring on the side of caution. A lot of people don't believe the hijab is compulsory but what if it is and we are questioned about it on the day of judgement? There is enough "proof" out there that Allah ordained the hijab that maybe women should just swallow their pride and wear it.
I wonder, do the people who say the hijab is not necessary also say that while praying, a woman does not have to cover her hair? What about hajj and stuff? A Muslim woman has to cover her hair then so doesn't it make sense logically that Allah ordained hijab in other circumstances too? Hijab as only a matter of circumstance seems foolish.
Sarah
Good point Sarah.Well some people think that it matters only whats in their hearts.If it only mattered about the heart, I dont see why there would be Quranic ayahs about hijab and modesty in dressing.Allah looks at the hearts but he also sees if we follow correctly what has been revealed to us.
It is He who sent down the Book to you from Him: verses containing clear judgements – they are the core of the Book – and others which are open to interpretation. Those with deviation in their hearts follow what is open to interpretation in it, desiring conflict, seeking its inner meaning. No one knows its inner meaning but God. Those firmly rooted in knowledge say, 'We have faith in it. All of it is from our Lord.' But only people of intelligence pay heed. (Surat Al 'Imran: 7)
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*Originally posted by Maniac: *
I think even if an issue is ambiguous,
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No Sister... the Quran is NOT ambigous on ANY issue.
Quran confirms it in the following versus:
(1) Qur`aan is a complete book, See 6:19,38,114, 115, 12:111 and 50:45. Remember that when Allah says that His book is complete, it means 100% complete.
(2) Qur`aan is perfect; no mistakes, no falsehood, no nonsense. 41:42, 12:40
(3) Qur`aan is detailed, and when Allah says He detailed His book it means FULLY detailed. 6:114, See also, 7:52, 11:1, 41:3, 10:37 and 12:111
(4) Allah does not need any addition to His book. 18:109
funguy, I meant ambiguous in interpretation. And well you don't follow the hadith obviously so any discussion with you on the matter is useless because not many people have the common ground with you to discuss it on.
But it doesn't really matter what you profess to believe to others, or even what you practice yourself. I think what really matters is when one day you stand in front of Allah and He asks you what you believe and your deeds. So the question is, can you say with certainty to Allah that I did not encourage my daughters / wife etc to wear the hijab because I truly don't believe You ordered it and I don't follow the sunnah? Can you say any of that with certainty to Him? If you can, well there you go, Allah didn't ordain the hijab and the sunnah and hadith are just useless trimmings not meant for us to be followed by Him.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Maniac: *
I did a paper on this some time ago. I was looking up interpretations about the verses in the Quran about covering yourself and modesty. One of the websites I looked at said they had to be interpreted in a historical context as at that time, women covered their heads but did not cover their bosoms properly. They made the argument that that was the reason Allah explicitly asked women to cover their bosoms but not their heads, because their heads were already covered.
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I was just about to say that. Arabia is a place where even men traditionally covered the head and when out in the desert, the face. So theres no question about women not covering themselves. Culturally, khimar was a long flowing outer garment which women wore on their heads but was thrown (behind) over their shoulders, i.e the bosom and chest area would have been uncovered. To ask women to draw their khimars around them to cover their chests would automatically imply the covering of the head. Drawing your khimar around you is more modest (full head to toe loose covering). And also a way of identifying yourself as a muslim woman.
On question of hijaab being a cultural practice...well islaam has sanctioned many cultural arabian practises and added to them to bring them in line with islamic teachings eg doing tawaaf arounf the ka'aba was essentially an arab cultural practise. Only in pre-islam arabia they did tawaaf naked. But the ruling to do tawaaf during hajj is still there. Just because something may have been a cultural practise doesn't take away from its being mandatory, as required by God. As it doesn't take away from the fact that hijaab is mandatory.
The last argument about Deen meaning to be easy...in a nutshell Islam is about moderation. And it is not beyond what an individual is capable of. For those who are not familiar with prayers 5 times a day or fasting from dawn to dusk...Islam is a difficult religion. Hijaab is literally a breeze compared to all that. 'Easy' is not a good basis to build and argument on.
so hopefully that debunks the myths of some of the previous links.
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*Originally posted by Maniac: *
funguy, I meant ambiguous in interpretation. And well you don't follow the hadith obviously so any discussion with you on the matter is useless because not many people have the common ground with you to discuss it on.
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And how did you come to the conclusion that funguy doesn't follow hadith or sunnah?
If my assumption is incorrect, then I apologize.
accepted and thank you.
assumption was correct because fg disagrees with the ayahs about hijab.:p
can we please split this thread.Right after the ayahs came into it, can we have that in religion?
oh and in a very wider cultural context, women in in ancient greece and rome and persia also fully covered themselves (head to toe). Although to them this was solely to identify themselves as being of the wealthy, aristocratic class. Women of the lower classes were not allowed to cover, with the threat of punishment if they ever did.
i forgot to add that in a very wide cultural sense, a woman covering herself is not an indication of her 'inferior' position. In fact thats as far from 'subjugation' as it gets.