Help.

[Ozair]

Re: Help.

think u have a point but at the same time a lot of girls just accept the fact that guys have had past physical relationships and they get married. These are girls who havent had any relationships either., and yes the guy always uses/waits for a time when the girl has been engaged a couple of months to him and she is emotionally involved to tell them. So the tables are turned. doesnt make what she did any more right though. If he can live with it than fine otherwise better to break off a nikkah than a marriage with kids in tow and mud sling n all.

I certainly agree with you.... this problem is not just entitled to one gender... same situation happens with the girls too... As I've said earlier people that are pure/virgin/in-experienced/chaste have the right to demand the same for themselves... if they chose not to then its their own choice...

[Reha]

Re: Help.

@pakistanimard

If she is so nice and honest and willing to face consequences, why did she wait untill after the marriage?

thats plain old dupage.

things change, people change. there’s no rule against honesty at any point in life.

you want to look at things from a virgin’s perspective…where this pious, jannati and amazing man was cheated in life by being tricked into marrying a woman who lied about her virginity.

because there’s such a huge shortage of men nowadays that lying is probably the only way to get married, right?

you can also choose to look at it from a woman’s perspective. she was betrayed, hurt and is probably still hurt. she realizes she has put her marriage at risk and there are no guarantees he will stay married to her. if this woman was indeed being deceitful…the easy way out would have been to NEVER say a word. deceitful people actually follow through with the deception until the end…they don’t confess halfway through.

im sorry but this is not that big of a deal. he has a long life ahead of him…some day he **will **need her forgiveness as well.

being a virgin is great…but if your virginity is a source of arrogance…or the reason you leave your wife…what’s the point? its obviously failed in making you a better person.

[Ozair]

Re: Help.

im sorry but this is not that big of a deal. he has a long life ahead of him...some day he **will **need her forgiveness as well.

being a virgin is great...but if your virginity is a source of arrogance...or the reason you leave your wife...what's the point? its obviously failed in making you a better person.

You have an interesting point there... but its not about virginity and pride... its about trust... her confessing her sins after she gets married and then asserting that he should forgive her and forget about it and respect her honesty... how much of a choice she has left him any ways .. just shove this bitter truth down his throat or get divorced... easier said than done.... and if she chooses to stay quiet then what could have happened if he finds out about this from someone else at a later point in his married life... wouldn't that be a major catastrophe on his marriage then...?

But hey, there are people that are able to move on with these kind of things in life... some cannot... God forbid some women go though harsh tragedies in their life... people shouldn't judge them...

[Reha]

Re: Help.

You have an interesting point there... but its not about virginity and pride... its about trust... her confessing her sins after she gets married and then asserting that he should forgive her and forget about it and respect her honesty... how much of a choice she has left him any ways .. just shove this bitter truth down his throat or get divorced... easier said than done.... and if she chooses to stay quiet then what could have happened if he finds out about this from someone else at a later point in his married life... wouldn't that be a major catastrophe on his marriage then...?

But hey, there are people that are able to move on with these kind of things in life... some cannot... God forbid some women go though harsh tragedies in their life... people shouldn't judge them...

you know what? i think he should forgive her and respect her honesty. she didn't confess to being a hooker, a drug dealer or having an abortion with her ex. she confessed to a mistake she made in life. people are allowed mistakes and if Allah swt can forgive...who and what on earth is a mere mortal?

people go through some really bad stages in life. they lose their jobs, get sick, accidents, can't have kids, whatever. do you suggest extending the nikah-nama to cover all of these instances as well?

"in the event my wife is not a virgin, gets diabetes, loses a limb or ends up unemployed...i am allowed to divorce her and she owes me all the money i spent on her to that date."

hm

yes, she should have been honest since the get-go. but don't you think she stopped a hundred times before telling him this? knowing he will never look at her the same way again? as for finding out through someone else...how often do you think that actually happens? she won't be walking around with a sign on her forehead saying "look here, non-virgin". no man will risk his own marriage (or neck for that matter) by pointing fingers at another man's wife. if she didn't want to tell him, chances are........he'd never have known. she told him...its a sign of shame, guilt, a conscience that still works.

Piety is NOT limited to virginity people. Its just one aspect of it. Being a virgin doesn't make one religious...goodness. If this man is truly as pious and devout of a Muslim he considers himself to be...he will understand its not his place to judge her. He will leave that to her Creator and find it in his heart to forgive because that is the right thing to do.

[Aukhan]

Re: Help.

you know what? i think he should forgive her and respect her honesty. she didn't confess to being a hooker, a drug dealer or having an abortion with her ex. she confessed to a mistake she made in life. people are allowed mistakes and *if Allah swt can forgive...who and what on earth is a mere mortal? *

Allah forgives everything but it's the husband whose life is getting affected by it.

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Help.

@Reha

you know what? i think he should forgive her and respect her honesty. she didn’t confess to being a hooker, a drug dealer or **having an abortion **with her ex. she confessed to a mistake she made in life. people are allowed mistakes and if Allah swt can forgive…who and what on earth is a mere mortal?

Didn’t know getting an abortion was up there with dealing drugs and selling ***

[SamiaQ]

Help.

If she has regrets than Your friend should forgive her. He should try to find out what is her motivation to tell him
And I think it is quit difficult to tell in the beginning of relationship about past, especially if it is someone in the family. She has to think abt her reputation.....
If he cant forgive her and decides to divorce her, he should not mention the fact her not beinig virgin to others...

[Reha]

Re: Help.

@Aukhan

Allah forgives everything but it’s the husband whose life is getting affected by it.

I don’t think the husband’s life has been affected by this as much as her own. Her husband has to deal with the knowledge and that’s it. She is the one that has to live with this sin…not him. He doesn’t have to repent or ask for forgiveness for it. She does.

Besides, she didn’t bring an illegitimate child to him, she simply told him the truth about herself.

@SaeedinPakistan

Didn’t know getting an abortion was up there with dealing drugs and selling ***

An abortion would have been much bigger of a deal I would think.

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Help.

@Reha

I don’t think the husband’s life has been affected by this as much as her own. Her husband has to deal with the knowledge and that’s it. She is the one that has to live with this sin…not him. He doesn’t have to repent or ask for forgiveness for it. She does.

Besides, she didn’t bring an illegitimate child to him, she simply told him the truth about herself.

An abortion would have been much bigger of a deal I would think.

No. Getting pregnant and not getting one would have been big. “Hey hubby, meet my kid.” “No silly, I wasn’t married to his dad when he was conceived;). Come to think of it, I was never married to him:D”

Having STDs would have been big too.

[mizsani]

Re: Help.

I think the girl should have just kept it to herself. And if she really wanted to share all of that then she should have done that before their nikkah.

[Ozair]

Re: Help.

you know what? i think he should forgive her and respect her honesty. she didn't confess to being a hooker, a drug dealer or having an abortion with her ex. she confessed to a mistake she made in life. people are allowed mistakes and if Allah swt can forgive...who and what on earth is a mere mortal? * If you think that he should forgive her and move on... then more power to you... the point I'm trying to make here is that he himself didn't make such a mistake and he has the RIGHT to judge the situation from that perspective... he may chose to stay or not to stay... That is his choice, that is his personal choice... I have to respect that... I gave my opinion to the situation...*

people go through some really bad stages in life. they lose their jobs, get sick, accidents, can't have kids, whatever. do you suggest extending the nikah-nama to cover all of these instances as well?

From what I see and feel, marriage is a life-long commitment and I believe that all such commitments whether marital, business or others should start on the basis of honesty, truthfulness and the people involved in the contract should judge each other well and clear any kind of misconceptions and assumptions before getting themselves involved in such commitments.... This happens many times, I've seen this myself, people lie about their medical situations, careers, beliefs and what not... and I don't know about you but if they hide such things from me just because they fear that I would break the commitment on these basis then they don't deserve to enter in such a commitment with me in the first place...

"in the event my wife is not a virgin, gets diabetes, loses a limb or ends up unemployed...i am allowed to divorce her and she owes me all the money i spent on her to that date." * I don't understand that how all these situations have anything to do with the discussion here... you are being harsh here, why would I make such conditions in the contract, these things can happen to me aswell... people get sick, lose jobs, lose limbs, they die... that is the nature of life...the problem here is that she hid her secrets from her spouse before entering the marriage... people should clarify such situations before getting themselves involved in such commitments, other people enter the contract with their assumptions and trust, both parties should clarify such assumptions they make prior to entering in such a life-long commitment... people reject their perspective spouses on the basis of genetics and medical diseases running through their families... would you judge such people on the same basis if they chose to hide such things from you?*

hm

yes, she should have been honest since the get-go. but don't you think she stopped a hundred times before telling him this? knowing he will never look at her the same way again? as for finding out through someone else...how often do you think that actually happens? she won't be walking around with a sign on her forehead saying "look here, non-virgin". no man will risk his own marriage (or neck for that matter) by pointing fingers at another man's wife. if she didn't want to tell him, chances are........he'd never have known. she told him...its a sign of shame, guilt, a conscience that still works. * **As I have stated earlier if she thinks that her marriage might get in danger because of this then she shouldn't have entered this marriage in the first place without clarifying her situation to him and making sure that he accepts her circumstances before taking her as his wife...

---

As for if she chose to hid such things and he is never able to find out in his life... that is equally disgusting of her on her part... that is what I think...***

Piety is NOT limited to virginity people. Its just one aspect of it. Being a virgin doesn't make one religious...goodness. If this man is truly as pious and devout of a Muslim he considers himself to be...he will understand its not his place to judge her. He will leave that to her Creator and find it in his heart to forgive because that is the right thing to do.

I am not a devout and pious Muslim, I am an agnostic but I completely agree with you on this regard... being a virgin will neither guarantee that the spouse will not lie, cheat on the other later in their married life... nor it will guarantee anything about myself as well...

My opinion in bold...

[Reha]

Re: Help.

People who haven't walked in someone's shoes cannot judge.

Those who do, end up often swallowing their own words.

[Janjua39]

Re: Help.

Easy.. if not mentioned already. Guy should go sleep around at least once. That way both are messed up and can live together without any bad feelings. Oh and ask for forgiveness.

[ekumunng]

Re: Help.

It is a decision that should be made by him...and only him. No one else can suggest a way out of this situation. You can tell him one thing... whatever decision he makes.... he should stand by it and never regret it afterwards.

[krmaml1]

Re: Help.

That's disgusting. No really...it is.

On what grounds? Moral/Religious? How is it different from having casual sex, one night stands, Flings, F-buddies etc ?

You must be one lonely and desperate man.

Everyone desires sex and physical intimacy. What if a man doesnt want to settle down, get married (yet)?

[krmaml1]

Re: Help.

You want to look at things from a virgin's perspective...where this pious, jannati and amazing man was cheated in life by being** tricked into marrying a woman who lied about her virginity**.

**because there's such a huge shortage of men nowadays that lying is probably the only way to get married, right?

**

If there is such a huge shortage of men, girls must be struggling to lose their virginities and there would be no need to lie in the first place.

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Help.

@Janjua39

Easy.. if not mentioned already. Guy should go sleep around at least once. That way both are messed up and can live together without any bad feelings. Oh and ask for forgiveness.

[Reha]

Re: Help.

@krmaml1

If there is such a huge shortage of men, girls must be struggling to lose their virginities and there would be no need to lie in the first place.

that was sarcasm

[LHR1]

Re: Help.

First of all... I don't know why some people here are mocking OP's friend because he shared this problem with him... maybe its the OP himself, his/her family member or actually his friend is facing this problem... who knows... judge the situation not the OP...

Now, Personally... OP if you want a genuine answer then you need to judge this situation from the mindset of a young virgin man who never had a romantic relationship or any kind of sexual contact with a woman in his life before...

The act committed by this girl (not the premarital sex, but her confession to her husband after marriage) is an act of betrayal and a breach of trust... Now, she is even trying to blackmail him to forgive and forget about her past... As per the OP's words, the girl confessed to her husband after the marriage knowing that he is a virgin and never involved himself in such relationships... Why would she even want to confess to her husband in the first place... Lets examine some of the possibilities... maybe she feels really guilty now and wants to repent but what happened to that guilt when her husband gave her his trust when he agreed to marry her with the intention that he feels that she is compatible with him and believes that she herself is a virgin too... Or maybe she wanted to confess because later in their married life, he could have found out otherwise that she had a premarital relationship with someone and then she would not be able to justify her situation if he chose to react with an emotional outburst...

Now, as the OP is telling, the marriage is done within the family... Hence, now the wedding done and the family is settled with the matter... The girl has seeked the perfect opportunity to get rid of this ugly secret and guilt of her past without having to go through the possibility of a divorce.... The girl is trying to target the nature of OP's friend, as the OP is saying that his friend is naive and doesn't know what he should do about this... The girl is probably thinking that "Since we are now married and all that stuff and I know you are such a naive, shareef and a chicken... You probably wouldn't dare to divorce me because of all the social and family pressures in our desi culture, plus 'Log kya keheingein?' Khandaan toot jaye ga' etc... so I expect you to accept and live with my past"... now she is putting this pressure on him to 'forgive her' and 'respect her honesty'....

If the girl had good intentions to repent... then you should have told him about this before their marriage unless he had such a past of his own as well which he does not... So, that even if the guy wanted to reject her... they could mutually decide upon some fake excuses to present to their elders about why they are not compatible for each other etc etc..... and they could have easily moved on with their lives...

Personally, if this would have happened with me... *I would divorce her... I am a virgin and I intent to stay virgin until marriage... and I believe that a virgin man has every right to demand a virgin bride for himself unless he chose not to for whatever reason... * So, for the sake of an argument... lets suppose that this situation occurs with me and a lot of people here are suggesting to forgive and move on... and I do that, but how will I able to get intimate with her? I think I won't even be able to consummate the marriage with such a women, I would feel very inadequate knowing that she has already experienced all of this and I trusted her with her virginity... She already knows what to expect and how it feels whereas I don't and I will definitely know that she will either consciously or sub-consciously try to compare my performance with that of her previous lover... which I find extremely disgusting to even think about it...

Great post Ozair.
I agree, I am a virgin too but by choice, I had chances, offers.I am sure alot of guys have chances too, I decided to stay virgin.
Now, My words may sound baised, I personally dont even want to consider myself marrying to a non-virgin but I surely do have sympathy for her and thats becasue I know tons of guys who clevervily use girls innocence to fulfill their sexual desires.I really dont think she is a hypocrite or she cheated.Usually its like "You have do it IF you love/ trust me" and in some cases its by force.
The problem which I have daignosed with the guy sofar is, its not that he wanted her to bleed on their first night, not morally, not even religion, actually its his mindset which is not letting him accept her.The dirty stories which guys proudly tells about stupid girls , main yeh ker diya, woh tu farig hai ab and bla bla.Sadly he thinks that she is a used tissue paper. :(

[Gina]

Re: Help.

If it was such a huge issue why didn't the guy ask before marrying her? Now that they're married and she chose to be honest with him he should forgive her and move-on with life by accepting that everyone comes with faults. I'm sure he isn't perfect and has flaws and a past of his own.. everyone does!