Hazrat Isa A.S.

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

There is no solution but to pray for the misguided. If so many hadiths are to be considered wrong then the denial is considered extreme.

One or two hadiths could be weak or false but not so many hadiths and sources.

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Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Peace chacha_Ghalib

I’ve noticed the highlighted is an oft-repeated phrase … so I wanna see how vital that criteria really is …

Single or unique events that have taken place without proof

I can think of one already … The Creation of Adam (AS) … That had never happened before and since we are all reproducing by sex can we hence call that a fairytale as well?

Surely for Muslims Qur’an and Hadith is proof enough … and when Qur’an refers to previous scriptures then to a certain degree they are also proof for us.

There is also a wisdom in this loose terminology (such as tawaffee) … I see it is because it can be used for both times on Ascension and after actual death of Isa (AS) and it serves to be the reason how the fitnah of the imposters who have been foretold about can manifest … the ones who want to sow discord exploit the terms that can have multiple meanings - thus creating their basis for splintering away from the main body.

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Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Peace chacha_Ghalib,

You find these discussion are amusing :smack: I hope you are not trying to neglect the hadith (sayings of Prophet Muhammad :saw2: ) and immaculate message of Almighty Allah SWT (by Qur’an) as proof, regarding Prophet Isa a.s. Free you mind from this mortal world and try to understand the message and if you can’t than please leave the space for others by believing the discussion about Hazrat Isa a.s. as fable or fairytale which ever please you to your way or your highway.

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Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

sources : Quran, books of Ahadith.
Grave of Issa(as) : my belief : Srinagar,Kashmir. We can talk about it in details provided that you first consider him dead. I do not want to tell you the whole Romeo and Juliet story and at the end you ask me who Juliet was.

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Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Tawaffee is used in 3 cases? where? Give me one event where the word 'tawaffee' is used which is taken as 'taken up'. Allah takes away soul in 2 occasions only. Sleep and death. There is no mention of the 3rd possibility that you wrote to suit your need.

everything else you wrote is irrelevant. Bring forward some verse from quran in which tawaffee has meant 'taken up', and then we shall talk about it. Thank you.

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Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

O dear Lord!.. when am i denying any hadith related to second coming of Jesus i.e: promised Messiah? If I was a denier of these ahadith, i wouldnt be who i am right now. Infact, it is the love to Muhammad PBUH that I show by obeying His ahadith and trying to look if such things has happened or not. Do not copy ahadith to me, as I am very well aware of these ahadith and can write you back detailed post for not only each hadith , but for every single thing that has been talked about in those hadith.

We are talking about his being dead or alive. His second coming is a different topic, as if once the death is proven from Quran and ahadith, then the ahadith talking about second coming must mean someone else and not the same Jesus(as) sent to bani Israel. Lets talk about whether or not Jesus(as) is alive or dead. Again, im not denying the ahadith you posted, but they're pointing out to someone else and not Jesus(as) , as He(as) has died.

Perhaps we do not have the same standards now to talk about. I thought you gave preference to Quran more than ahadith. To understand Quran, we need Ahadith. It is not the other way around. Quran is promised by Allah to be protected...and not ahadith. Though, again, I say that ahadith u posted are true, but prophet muhammad pbuh is not talkin about Jesus(as) of bani israel.

There is no mention of Jesus(as) goin to heaven alive and there is no mention of his physical second coming anywhere. You are assuming things. Its as simple as that.

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You whole belief system about this whole thing is so messed up that you yourself dont have a clear picture in your mind on what it is that you really should be believing in.

Let me break down my difference with you here.

You and I both are followers of Islam. We both are followers of Muhammad PBUH. We both consider him to be khataman nabiyeen, the seal of the prophets. However, we BOTH are a believer of a belief that there is someone who will come AFTER Muhammad PBUH. Since you have already established a belief that Muhammad PBUH is the “last” prophet, and now you have to also adjust your other belief of someone AFTER HIM, therefore, you thought about it and then decided to send Jesus(as) to skies and is now waiting for His arrival.. you then say that he was a prophet before and he will remain a prophet, but He(as) came before Muhammad PBUH , therefore the belief of khatam e nabuwat is intact. You also say He (as) will be his ummati and his mission for people of bani israel is done, and that now he will preach islam.

So, as for the aqeedah or the root of the belief, I have no problem with you and neither should you have problem with me. We both are believers of someone who will come AFTER Muhammad PBUH. Where I differ from you is when I say it is not Jesus(as) that was sent to Bani israel who will come again, but rather someone who will be from the ummah of Muhammad PBUH. That is it. The rest of the stuff is the same. You bring Jesus(as) of bani israel back, while i say He(as) died, and the prophecies regarding promised messiah in ahadith is to be fulfilled in a personality who is born in the muslim ummah. Therefore, you copying ahadith regarding his second coming is really irrelevant, asi have no reason to deny them.

But I have problem with the belief of Jesus(as) being still alive in the heavens somewhere. This belief hold no truth whatsoever. I have presented to you various verses from Quran in my earlier deabtes with you , in a hope that you will for once put some real thought into it, but you have disappointed me yet again. Many many verses such as the verse in which tawaffee is used, you say it means taken up, and then when presented to you other verses from which same word is used, you bring another issue forward and tell me there are 3 possibilities of Allah taking up. Then there is verse about Muhammad PBUH himself when he told kuffars that I am but a prophet and a human being, hence told them that i cannot go to heavens and bring down book for you to read.. then the verse where Allah says to Muhammad pbuh that before him, he has never given anyone such a long life, if you are to die, then so did they.

So many verses psyah, so many !.. then I told you how its impossible for a previous prophet to be an ummati of a newer prophet. It is impossible as per Quran. I gave you various verses, but you did not look into them again and always came up with weird explanation which Im sure did not make sense to you at all even one bit.

I provided you ahadith, but they did not seem to work on you. With all this I can only remember a verse in allah says that you tell them or you tell them not, they will not believe.

You have no problem Isa(as) to come again, but call it fitnah when in Islam someone claims to be a prophet. How ironic! You think Islam is not capable enough to give birth to prophet which you have been waiting for ages. Very sad!

Tell me one verse from quran which suggest that it is ok for a previous prophet to be an ummati of the next prophet. Just one proof and I am here to join you.

Tell me one verse from Quran or one hadith where the mention of bodily ascension is mentioned anywhere?

Bodily coming back of anyone from skies is a fairytale and the sooner this belief is discarded, the better it will be for Islam.

PS: You do remember talking to me about the same issue in this thread :[http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/521528-return-of-hazrat-isa-a-s-3.html

P](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/521528-return-of-hazrat-isa-a-s-3.html)lease read my posts, from another angle. In that thread, i’m assuming if we believe jesus(as) does come back bodily, what are the things that would go against the Quran and ahadith, and how he cannot be follower of Muhammad PBUH.
Everyone is welcome to read my posts here or in the thread i posted the link of.

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The ones regarding Isa (AS) ... we are going round and round in circles

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Second coming is not a separate topic ... For you believe in no second coming ... you ignore the FACT that hadith specifically say Isa (AS) ibn Maryam ... there is no one else who will come in his place. It is called second coming because it is him himself ...

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*Volume
4, Book 55, Number 658:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah’s Apostle said "How will you be when the
son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the
Law of the Quran and not by the law of Gospel (Fateh-ul Bari page 304 and 305
Vol 7)
*

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Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Peace Mr.Poptat,

Below is the explanation in the light of Holy Qur’an, but if you would like I can quote verious hadiths in this regard.

**The Evil Accusation the Jews uttered against Maryam a.s. and their claim that they killed Isa a.s.
**
Allah Said in Qur’an Chapter 4 verse 156: “And because of their (jews) disbelief and uttering against Maryam a.s. a grave false charge”.

Ali bin Abi Talhah said that Ibn Abbas stated that ‘the Jews accused Maryam a.s of fornication’. This is also teh saying of As-Suddi, Juwaybir, Muhammad bin Ishaq and several others.

This meaning is also apparent in the verse, as the Jews accused Maryam a.s. and her son of grave accusations: They accused her of fornication and claimed that 'Isa a.s was an illegitimate son. Some of them even claimed that she was menstruating while fornicating. May Allah’s continued curse be upon them until the Day of Resurrection.

The Jews also said And because of their saying “We killed Al-Masih, Isa son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah” meaning, we killed the person who claimed to be the Messenger of Allah. The Jews only uttered these words injest and mockery, just as the polytheists said "O you to whom the Dhikr (the Qur’an) has been sent down! Verily, you are a mad man!.** [15:6].
**
When Allah sent Isa a.s. with proofs and guidance, the Jews, may Allah’s curses, anger, torment and punishment be upon them, envied him because of his Prophethood and obvious miracles; curing the blind and leprous and bringin the dead back to life, by Allah’s leave. He also used to make the shape of a bird from clay and blow in it, and it became a bird by Allah’s leave and flew.

Isa a.s. performed other miracles that Allah honored him with, yet the Jews defied and bellied him and tried their best to harm him. Allah’s Prophet Isa a.s. could not live in any one city for long and he had to travel often with his mother, peace be upon them. Even so, the Jews were not satisfied, and they went to the king of Damascus at that time, a Greek polytheist who worshipped the stars. They told him that htere was a man in Bayt Al-Maqdis misguiding and dividing the people in Jerusalem and stirring unrest among the king’s subjects.

The king became angry and wrote to his deputy in Jerusalem to arrest the rebel leader, stop him from causing unrest, crucify him and make him wear a crown of thorns.

When the king’s depty in Jerusalem received these orders, he went with some Jews to the house that Isa a.s. was residing in, and he was then with twelve, thirteen or seventeen of his companions. That day was a Friday, in the evening.

They surrounded Isa a.s in the house, and when he felt that they would soon enter the house or that he would sooner or later have to leave it, he said to his companions, “Who volunteers to be made to look like me, for which he will be my companion in Paradise?”

A young man volunteered, but Isa a.s. thought that he was too young. He asked the question a second and third time, each time the young man volunteering, prompting Isa a.s to say, “Well then, you will be that man.”

Allah made the young man look exactly like Isa a.s. while a hole opened in the roof of the house, and Isa a.s. was made to sleep and ascended to heaven while asleep. Allah said" And (remember) when Allah: O Isa! I will take you and raise you to myself [Quran 3:55]

When Isa a.s. ascended, those who were in the house came out. When those surrounding the house saw the
man who looked like Isa a.s. they thought that he was Isa a.s. So they took him at night, crucified him and placed a crown of thorns on his head. The Jews then boasted that they killed Isa a.s. and some Christians accepted their false claim, due to their ignorance and lack of reason.

As for those who were in the house with Isa a.s. they witnessed his ascension to heaven, while the rest thought that the Jews killed Isa a.s. by crucifixion. They even said that Maryam a.s. sat under the corpse of the crucified man and cried, and they say that the dead man spoke to her.

All this was a test from Allah for His servants out of His wisdom. Allah explained this matter in the Glorious Qur’an which He sent to his Messenger, whom He supported with miracles and clear, unequivocal evidence. Allah is the Most Truthful, and He is the Lord of the worlds, the hidden matters in heaven and earth, what has occurred, what will occur, and what would occur if it was decreed.

Allah Said: “but** they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeard as that to them**”
referring to the person whom the Jews thought was Isa a.s.

This is why Allah said afterwards “and those who differ therin are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture”.

referring to the Jews who claimed to kill Isa a.s. and the ignorant Christians who believed them. Indeed they are all in confusion, misquidance and bewilderment.

This is why Allah Said: “for surely, they killed him not”.

meaning they are not sure that Isa a.s. was the one whom they killed. Rather, they are in doubt and confusion over this matter.

Allah Said: "But Allah raised him up unto Himself. And Allah is Ever All-Powerful"

meaning, He is the Almighty, and He is never weak, nor will those who seek refuge in Him ever be subjected to disgrace.

All-Wise.

in all that He decides and ordains for his creatures. Indeed, Allah is the clearest wisdom, unequivocal proof and the most glorious authority.

Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn Abbas said, "Just before Allah raise Isa a.s. to the heavens, Isa a.s. went to his companions, who were twelve inside the house. When he arrived, his hair was dripping water and he said, ‘There are those among you who will disbelieve in me twleve times after he had believed in me.’

He then asked, ‘Who volunteers that his image appear as mine, and be killed in my place. He will be with me (in Paradise).’

One of the youngest ones among them volunteered and Isa a.s. asked him to sit down. Isa a.s. again asked for a volunteer, and the young man kept volunteering and Isa a.s. asking him to sit down. Then the young man volnteered again and Isa a.s. said, You will be that man, and the resemblance of Isa a.s. was cast over that man while Isa a.s. ascended to heaven from a hole in the house.

When the Jews came looking for Isa a.s. they found that young man and crucified him.

Some of Isa a.s. followers disbelieved in him twelve times after they had believed in him. They then divided into three groups.[LIST=|INDENT=2]
[li]One group, Al-Ya’qubiyyah (Jacobites), said, ‘Allah remained with us as long as He willed and then ascended to heaven.’[/li][li]Another group, An-Nasturiyyah (Nestorians), said, ‘The son of Allah was with us as long as he willed and Allah took him to heaven.’[/li][li]Another group, Muslims, said, ‘The servant and Messenger of Allah remained with us as long as Allah willed, and Allah then took him to Him.’[/li][/LIST]The two disbelieving groups cooperated against the Muslim group and they killed them. Ever since that happened, Islam was then veiled untill Allah sent Muhammad :saw2:

This statement has an authentic chain of narration leading to Ibn Abbas and An-Nasai narrated it through Abu Kurayb who reported it from Abu Mu’awiyah.

Many among the Salaf state that; “Isa a.s. asked if someone would volunteer for his appearance to be cast over him, and that he will be killed instead of Isa a.s. for which he would be his companion in Paradise.”

All Christian will believe in Isa a.s. befe He dies
**
Allah said: “And there is none of the People of the Scripture, but must believe in him, before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness against them.” [4:159]**

Ibn Jarir recorded that Ibn Abbas commented, (And there is none of the People of the Scripture, but must believe in him, before his death), before the death of Isa a.s., son of Maryam a.s.

Al-Awfi reported similar from Ibn Abbas.

Abu Malik commented: (but must believe in him, before his death), “This occurs after Isa a.s. returns and before he dies, as then, all of the People of the Scripture will believe in him”.

The Story of Jesus (Isa a.s.)

Source:
Translation & Tafsir Ibn Katheer
& Yousif Ali,
islambasic.com

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Mr. Popat: go a head and provide me authentic hadith and quranic reference of your believe. You are claiming his grave so it is your duty to produce reference.

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Peace STA

As you may know there is an empty grave next to the prophet Muhammad (SAW) in Madinah …

There is a spot for a fourth grave in the Sacred Chamber where Isa (a.s.) [Jesus] will eventually be buried. Tirmidhi has mentioned as narrated by Abdullah bin Salam (r.a.), “The characteristics of Prophet Mohammad (s.a.w.) are described in Old Testament and it is also mentioned there that Isa (a.s.) will be buried with him.”

  • Abdullah bin Omar (r.a.) has narrated that Prophet Mohammad (s.a.w.) said, “Isa (a.s.) will descend to the earth. He will marry and will have children. In this way he will spend forty five years and finally he will die and will be buried with me. On the Day of Judgement. I, Isa (a.s.), Abu Bakr and Omar will rise from the same site.”

​http://www.islamiclandmarks.com/saudi/madinah/masjid_e_nabwi/roza_mubarak.html

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Psyah, I am aware of this hadith.

I am just asking him to provide his evidence, which he cant produce even if he tries to go back in the man made literature of 18th century, he could not find anything but surely upset with those writings and author.

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we should not ask such peoples for proof

because we believe Muhammad :saw2: is last prophet…

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indeed, it is agreed among major school of thoughts (all four imam) ,(sunni and shia) that hazrat Issa will come back as the follower of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Imam Mehdi will lead the ummah.

All authentic books of hadith confirmed it. As bro. Psyah also mentioned the hadith about the grave of Issa will be next to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

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Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

No. We are not goin round and round in circles. That is exactly what I thought. more than 10 verses in which the word tawaffee is used is to be taken as 'taken up', but the meaning of it is death, as per your saying ( your A B and C criterion of the word ) , but JUST for jesus, God meant bodily taken up?

No, not convincing. You will not find any flaws in Quran. You are translating according to however you like it just for Jesus. It is not me whose doing pick and choose here but rather you. It is you who is using that word to be taken as literally up for that word. It is unfair that you do that.

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If the verses provided to you in favor of Jesus(as)'s death is not satisfying enough for you, then what makes you think I will provide you reference about why i believe his tomb is in Kashmir ? Thats what my belief is, but even if its not (just for argument sake), how many prophet's graves do you personally know?

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you havent any quranic/hadith reference to proof your belief. bro. Psyah produced a very good reference about future grave of hazrat Isa(a.s).

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You think thats to be taken literally?

You also believe a prophet is to be buried where he dies. What about that belief?