Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.
Peace Mr.Popat
The section Surah 53:1-13 certainly does not infer a mere heart sight ... and beside what does that even mean? Especially in context to the verses around it ... You have shown no proof - merely interpretations being taken out of context ... you don't even know Arabic well enough to be making those calls.
He Muhammad (SAW) had an experience that felt like a physical actual experience. The nature of how that happened we can only speculate, but for sure it was not a dream or vision because dreams and visions - one can easily tell the fabric of such things ... rather after the mi'raj it was said by Sayyidina Abu Bakr (RA) that "If he (Muhammad (SAW)) said he went then I believe it is true", earning him the title of "As-Siddique".
You still have provided no proof that the Qur'an says Isa (AS) has died - no where - not once ... I'm not satisfied with your answers Mr.Popat ...
Then you have the guile to say this:
"If I do, will you give up the man made beliefs you have?"
Is this the way you have been taught by your leaders to converse with people? If you do show the evidence first you trust me to cross-examine the evidence, what sort of barter would it be if I didn't do that? Also, to call my beliefs man-made is next to insult. I can do the same with you and we are left with no difference. This is not a war or words ... it is a simple request from the very beginning of these volumes of posts - that The Qur'an DOES NOT say that Isa (AS) has died ...and for you to show that it does ... period.
I'm deeply saddened by the way you closed your eyes and hearts even after showing you proof after proof from Qur'an. The verse where the word tawaffee has been used, the whole discussion so far is that it meant to 'take away' soul. That was your biggest proof. Then there were other verses, i.e : he used to eat, and verses such as 'verily all prophets before him has passed away'. How could you say my proofs are not satisfying enough? You will be amazed to know if I tell you how many people PM'd me about this topic so far. You cant say proofs arent enough for you. You just fail to see them as proof or failed to refute them, but instead, keep coming back with your theories or assumption that it is possible etc..
How innocently you said I took one verse out of context and said that Miraj was not physical. Surah Najm from verse 1-13 can by no means be assumed that Miraj was physical. Infact, it is not even mentioned till I think 8th verse. The verse 11 where it is said "the heart of the prophet was not untrue of to that which He saw". What is there to understand? You need ahadith to understand something from Quran.. Hadith is the secondary source to understand Quran. To back up my understanding of "the heart of the prophet... " , I provided you 4/5 ahadith exclusively explaining how it was NOT physical journey. It just simply CANNOT be physical journey. I'm not just claiming it, but rather providing you proof from Quran saying that heart saw, and then telling you ahadith. What have you done? Simply claiming your belief ? Why? I don't know?
I have said it that its man made belief. My belief is in Islam. Total submission to the will of Allah ( not just half. Not just making something part of your belief without analyzing if other verses of Quran contradict with that belief or not ). I did not intend to insult your belief, but my point was to show you if the belief is not in Islam, then it is man made. You cannot say the same to me, as I am a true Muslim, believer of true Islam, a religion pure from all kinds of shirk and bidat. A believer and a follower of Quran, a book pure from all imperfection and contradictions.
On one hand, Muhammad PBUH replying to non believers that He is unable to go to heavens to get a book for them to read, because hes just a man and a messenger, and on other hand you're telling me that He went to heavens bodily alive ? You think Quran has contradictions? Miraaj was a very strong kashf of Allah to take him to the journey spiritually. I gave you verse (saying it was heart which saw it and not eye ) and ahadith backing my belief. But theres nothing of that sort from your side showing me any proof that His body was NOT present there.
Therefore, you cannot use the event of Miraj as basis to show Jesus(as) is alive. It doesn't make sense. Heave is NOT a physical place. He SAW saw many dead prophets there , and he saw Jesus(as) there too. What was he doing with dead prophets there? I just dont understand why you just stopped asking questions to those who have made these beliefs integral part of your imaan?
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You can't say that since something you believe has not happened as per the Qur'an therefore it is not possible. Big problems there: Reasoning being logically the absence of something does not infer its negation. Also, there are things mentioned in books that you believe in that are not in the Qur'an, such as many things mentioned in the Tadhkira. Also, there are hadith that say so and when we look at the Qur'an we see what those verses actually mean.
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The basis of imaan is Quran. It must be followed and honored. Then you have sunnah and ahadith as secondary sources to understand Quran. My belief, as any Muslim's belief should be is to regard Quran to be superior to Sunnah and ahadith. Though, theres no way we can understand Quran without the great man's own words on whom the Book was revealed. Therefore, we go to Ahadith to help us understand Quran. This is what I'm saying. If Quran uses explicit words to tell us all that Jesus(as) died. (((( His soul was taken up. He was witnessed over them as long as he was amongst them, and when he was caused to die, he no longer was witness. All prophets before Muhammad PBUH passed away... that was the verse on whom Muslims at that time at consensus. Mary(as) and Isa(as) used to eat. His ranks were exalted )))), then the secondary source of ahadith where the second coming is mentioned means someone other than the same Isa(as) sent 2012 years ago, who will be given the same title.
Your reasoning is wrong. To make it part of your belief, it must be mentioned in Holy Quran, and then confirming it from ahadith. Absence of isa(as) being alive from Quran infer its negation.
Translating certain word according to your liking is not the way to go, and certainly misguiding yourself.
