Hazrat Isa A.S.

[psyah]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

regarding the verse 5:116, 117, I have talked about in the post#41. pls refer to it. In addition to it, I would again lay emphasis on the fact that in the last part of his response, Jesus(as) cleared himself of the responsibility of the shirk of his people by saying "As long as I was among them, I was a witness over them when you gave me death then only You(Allah) was watcher over them".

this explaination doesn't make any sense as Jesus(as) has already said very clearly in his first three responses. The fourth response shows that under the watch of Jesus(as) his people didn't do shirk, it could only have happened after his 'tawaffee' and after his tawaffee only and only Allah was watcher over them. The part about Allah being watcher is stressed with 'Kunta Anta' that could mean that only and only Allah was watcher over them after the tawafee of jesus(as) and there is absolutely no chance of him being witness over them again. So since it is manifest to us the shirk of his people then only tawaffee i.e., death has already happened.

No ... in this time he (AS) is not witness over us ... as he is not with us. When he will come back he will start to resolve that again. Even when he came earlier many people were misled about who he (AS) was and how they understood him, but he used to rebuke them and clarify constantly. Gospel of Barnabas has some interesting discussions.

[psyah]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Quran does confirm that Jesus(as) was the true promised messiah to Jewsih people and it is a fulfillment of the third promise mentioned in 3:55. but at the time of jesus, people did ask him about Elijah who was to come back. In response, Jesus(as) pointed to Yahya thus telling them how the prophecy is fulfilled. those who wanted to have literal menifestation of the prophecy rejected him. It was not the only but one of the reasons Jews present for rejecting and falsifying Jesus.

What are you saying? No the only analogy that we can draw is that Jews were waiting for Elijah prophet to return and in fact Yahya(as) was sent. Who didn't descend from heavens but was born. Similary the coming back of Jesus(as) doesn't mean ascent and descent of the same old Jesus(as) but ..

Sorry where in our scriptures does it say that Isa (AS) said that Yahya (AS) is Elijah (Ilyas (AS))? According to the Qur'an these are two different people.

[Bigboi]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

@ The Jinx and all:

I'm sorry, I mixed things up. The Uncle Hadhrat Abbas of the Holy Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) has been given the title of Khatam-ul-Muhajereen. You can find this Hadith in Kinz-ul-Ummal page 6.

@psyah :

‘And He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live;

I know that he says that he is blessed, but that's it? What about the prayers and the almsgiving? Why aren't you not giving me an answer to that? I have asked twice. First time you didn't bother to give a answer to this question, now you are telling me that he is blessed. What will be your answer to me thrid time and to all who are looking?

forget the topic acsension for now, I ask you last time:

‘And He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live;

where is he giving alms and to whom? To Allah, to the dead? To the Angels? Where is he praying? What is he praying? Care to explain? What is the sense of paying alms when you shall pay it to the angels or the dead or to Allah? What is the sense of me praying when I also can pray like Isa (as) is allegedly praying?

[psyah]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

@ The Jinx and all:

I'm sorry, I mixed things up. The Uncle Hadhrat Abbas of the Holy Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) has been given the title of Khatam-ul-Muhajereen. You can find this Hadith in Kinz-ul-Ummal page 6.

@psyah :

‘And He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live;

I know that he says that he is blessed, but that's it? What about the prayers and the almsgiving? Why aren't you not giving me an answer to that? I have asked twice. First time you didn't bother to give a answer to this question, now you are telling me that he is blessed. What will be your answer to me thrid time and to all who are looking?

forget the topic acsension for now, I ask you last time:

‘And He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live;

where is he giving alms and to whom? To Allah, to the dead? To the Angels? Where is he praying? What is he praying? Care to explain? What is the sense of paying alms when you shall pay it to the angels or the dead or to Allah? What is the sense of me praying when I also can pray like Isa (as) is allegedly praying?

Peace Bigboi

I sense you are asking me to explain the physics of the other realms ... I have not the faintest, but I can use my theory hat to give you an explanation ...

Now according to Isa (AS) imagine that he is taken from his time Ascended and then for him immediately put into our time ... although for him only a few seconds, or minutes or not even that pass, but for the rest of the world centuries pass. My point in saying this is the Shari'ah is limited to this world ... prayer can almsgiving can be done in another form in that domain as well I have no idea about it .. but it does not mean that it does not exist and it does not mean that he Isa (AS) is not there.

[Bigboi]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Peace Bigboi

I sense you are asking me to explain the physics of the other realms ... I have not the faintest, but I can use my theory hat to give you an explanation ...

Now according to Isa (AS) imagine that he is taken from his time Ascended and then for him immediately put into our time ... although for him only a few seconds, or minutes or not even that pass, but for the rest of the world centuries pass. My point in saying this is the Shari'ah is limited to this world ... prayer can almsgiving can be done in another form in that domain as well I have no idea about it .. but it does not mean that it does not exist and it does not mean that he Isa (AS) is not there.

I respect you alot Brother Psyah, but your behavior is nothing more than a bad joke. I have given you enough evidences that Isa (as) can't be alive and is not alive, but you make him alive. My fellow Ahmad Brothers have also given you enough evidences, but you rather choose to drive in a never ending circle. Well, this is up to you. Allah will change the state of your Heart as you seem not ready to accept the Truth. This can different reasons. Your Theory is zero and does not make sense. Have you seen in History that a Prophet came to a certain House of Belief and then was sent again to another one? You are making a bad joke of Allah (swt) and his designs.

It must be a honorable feeling for every Muslim that the King of the World lies buried in his grave, but the King of the Jews will come and resolve the issues of the Muslims and the entire World. This is a shame.

I have nothing to say anymore and I'm leaving this conversation as it does not make any sense at this moment. I wish you all a great discussion.

Allah Hafiz

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Now according to Isa (AS) imagine that he is taken from his time Ascended and then for him immediately put into our time ... although for him only a few seconds, or minutes or not even that pass, but for the rest of the world centuries pass. My point in saying this is the Shari'ah is limited to this world ... prayer can almsgiving can be done in another form in that domain as well I have no idea about it .. but it does not mean that it does not exist and it does not mean that he Isa (AS) is not there.

I'm sorry but .. what !!?!??
You have no idea about it but Perhaps this.. perhaps that etc etc. The ideas you come up with to defend your belief without having any proof from Quran or hadith is just mind blowing, I must admit though, I like the way your brain works. Reading your posts about this topic is like reading a science fiction novel

[shardmanny]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

salam

1.the Prophets prayed behined RasoolAllah SAW (miraj)
2.almsgiving can be dua
3.judgement day has not yet come

to be honest i am more familiar with prayer continueing due to the 'pleased with Allah SWT'' effect (9:100),being purified, being closer to the Irresistable Supreme etc

obviously i am open to learning (about prayer ending)

[psyah]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

I respect you alot Brother Psyah, but your behavior is nothing more than a bad joke. I have given you enough evidences that Isa (as) can't be alive and is not alive, but you make him alive. My fellow Ahmad Brothers have also given you enough evidences, but you rather choose to drive in a never ending circle. Well, this is up to you. Allah will change the state of your Heart as you seem not ready to accept the Truth. This can different reasons. Your Theory is zero and does not make sense. Have you seen in History that a Prophet came to a certain House of Belief and then was sent again to another one? You are making a bad joke of Allah (swt) and his designs.

It must be a honorable feeling for every Muslim that the King of the World lies buried in his grave, but the King of the Jews will come and resolve the issues of the Muslims and the entire World. This is a shame.

I have nothing to say anymore and I'm leaving this conversation as it does not make any sense at this moment. I wish you all a great discussion.

Allah Hafiz

Allah Hafiz Bigboi

I'm sorry but .. what !!?!?? You have no idea about it but Perhaps this.. perhaps that etc etc. The ideas you come up with to defend your belief without having any proof from Quran or hadith is just mind blowing, I must admit though, I like the way your brain works. Reading your posts about this topic is like reading a science fiction novel

My point in writing this is to show that science permits the various iterations of possibility, so long as it is not contradictory or that so and so can be found to be impossible within the realms of theoretical science ... If I am going to be asked questions about which even the questioner has no answer then you should not be surprised with such answers.

Peace Mr.Popat

[kchughtai]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Sorry where in our scriptures does it say that Isa (AS) said that Yahya (AS) is Elijah (Ilyas (AS))? According to the Qur'an these are two different people.

Are you sure you didn't get what I meant to say. Yahya and Elijah were two different people. yes, no doubt about it but in Malachi's prophecy about coming of Elijah, it was about Yahya. When Jesus(as) himself solved the riddle then who are we to say otherwise. This is not re-incarnation. Our holy prophet (pbuh) was also referred to as like Moses(as) in prophecies. So this is another way of saying the same.

Here are two extracts from the old testament and new testament

1)

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” Malachi 4:5

“He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers.” Malachi 4:6

2)

"Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will give him the name John. 14"And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15"For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother’s womb. 16"And he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. 17"And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous; so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord," (Luke 1:13-17).

[psyah]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

salam

1.the Prophets prayed behined RasoolAllah SAW (miraj) 2.almsgiving can be dua 3.judgement day has not yet come

to be honest i am more familiar with prayer continueing due to the 'pleased with Allah SWT'' effect (9:100)

obviously i am open to learning

Peace shardmanny

Exactly ... I was going to post the well known hadith about even a smile can be charity ... but I chose not to ...

[kchughtai]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

@psyah

No … in this time he (AS) is not witness over us … as he is not with us.
When he will come back he will start to resolve that again. Even when he came earlier many people were misled about who he (AS) was and how they understood him, but he used to rebuke them and clarify constantly. Gospel of Barnabas has some interesting discussions.

He will never be a witness over his people again that he will not be among his people again. I disussed about it earlier. Yes many people misunderstood him, rejected him but the idea of his divinity originated after him. The verse is very clear on this.

Opinion of Ghamidi of this verse. We both don’t agree with all his views but his view in this case is interesting. Pls note the video from 5:20 till the end. It is about this very verse.

[psyah]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Are you sure you didn't get what I meant to say. Yahya and Elijah were two different people. yes, no doubt about it but in Malachi's prophecy about coming of Elijah, it was about Yahya. When Jesus(as) himself solved the riddle then who are we to say otherwise. This is not re-incarnation. Our holy prophet (pbuh) was also referred to as like Moses(as) in prophecies. So this is another way of saying the same.

Here are two extracts from the old testament and new testament

1)

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” Malachi 4:5

“He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers.” Malachi 4:6

2)

"Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will give him the name John. 14"And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15"For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother’s womb. 16"And he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. 17"And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous; so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord," (Luke 1:13-17).

Peace kchughtai

No I heard you .. I have things to say about this and can elaborate... inshaAllah later, but for now ... the return of Isa (AS) is from Islamic sources ... but the return of Elijah is from Jewish sources ... I believe in Islamic sources and have no real obligation to look to Jewish prophecies as a starting point for belief. In the account of the transfiguration Elijah does indeed come according to the New Testament ... there are also other places where Elijah could have come in history but was not recognised ... The main criticism of the Jews regarding John the Baptist is that he didn't manage really to align many people to the path. There were many people who could have been Elijah between Malachi and Isa (AS), however the same cannot be said after Muhammad (SAW) regarding Isa (AS).

And if Isa (AS) allegedly solved the riddle, then what did he say about the Ascension of Elijah ???

[FairysAngel]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

^ I think if you have been following this thread, you must..........matters about which you used to dispute

Just for a minute, keep all translations aside and by using any translation software lets translate " die a natural death" from arabic to english than its vice versa. Lets see how translated words occure. Do post snap-shot of the link of translation site.

Like I said earlier, the word tawaffee is used before rafa'a and if you read the entire verse.. it will make sense to you.

Tawaffee= take up

take what up? take the entire body? the soul ? Theres no other possibility. Entire body ? well.. this is not mentioned in quran, neither can you conclude that this verse means entire body. No mention of that at all. Soul ? yes. Thats the only thing Allah would 'take up'.

How does Allah take soul ? what are the criterias ? 1) Sleep 2) Death.

Both cases, the physical body remains on Earth. If Jesus (as) is not sleeping then He's dead ( his soul is in heaven ), ( angels 'took away' his soul ).

Wait wait wait!

The verse make lot of sense to me thats why I asked.

Anyhow, Why would Allah 'take up' soul only? Where does in Qur'an its mentioned? Others are saying Allah has taken Hazrat Isa a.s. as whole, not his body nor his soul but as whole. While you are saying only soul?

If I am not wrong than in you previous post, somewhere you said Hazrat Isa a.s. not crucified not killed, Right? If so than the body and soul both should be here. If soul is taken than where is body? If Allah taken his soul by sleep than where was the body kept and why kept?

If Allah caused (given) him death than under what circumstances? How? by hands of enemies? I don't think so because Allah Said in Qur'an "they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him....."

As far I am aware that no Prophet were killed by hands of any enemies? Than why Hazrat Isa a.s. were killed or caused to death?

P.S. the last two paragraph in response of your criterias.

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

Just for a minute, keep all translations aside and by using any translation software lets translate " die a natural death" from arabic to english than its vice versa. Lets see how translated words occure. Do post snap-shot of the link of translation site.

Wait wait wait!

The verse make lot of sense to me thats why I asked.

Anyhow, Why would Allah 'take up' soul only? Where does in Qur'an its mentioned? Others are saying Allah has taken Hazrat Isa a.s. as whole, not his body nor his soul but as whole. While you are saying only soul?

If I am not wrong than in you previous post, somewhere you said Hazrat Isa a.s. not crucified not killed, Right? If so than the body and soul both should be here. If soul is taken than where is body? If Allah taken his soul by sleep than where was the body kept and why kept?

If Allah caused (given) him death than under what circumstances? How? by hands of enemies? I don't think so because Allah Said in Qur'an "they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him....."

As far I am aware that no Prophet were killed by hands of any enemies? Than why Hazrat Isa a.s. were killed or caused to death?

P.S. the last two paragraph in response of your criterias.

No, the verse does not make sense to you. It does not make sense to anyone the way you translate it.

Allah only take up souls as i quoted that verse many many times here. Here is the verse again :

[QUOTE]
39:42 Allah* takes away* the souls of human beings at the time of their death; and during their sleep of those also that are not yet dead. And then He retains those against which He has decreed death, and sends back the others till an appointed term. In that surely are Signs for a people who reflect.
[/QUOTE]

These are the 2 ways of Allah taking away the soul. Notice in the above verse, the same word "yatawaffa" is used which is used for Jesus(as). The word in its literal sense means take away/up. You are to ask yourself what is taking away/up? Its the soul. If you've been reading my posts on this thread, you'll find me quoting some verses from Quran which uses the term 'tawaffee' and this action of tawaffee ( taking up ) is always taken as taking up ones soul. In every verse in Quran where you'll find that term, it is meant as taking up ones soul. Why? because Allah sets a rule in the above verse. He 'takes away' souls in 2 cases. Either death or during sleep. There is no other mention of taken oneself as a whole.

I do not care about what others say about Jesus(as). I am not answerable to them. I'm answerable to Allah almighty of my beliefs and my understanding of Qur'an. I am more than willing to review my beliefs if one can provide me from Qur'an why I'm wrong. Quran is the standard. Bring your evidence from Qur'an and I will be with you. The whole world can believe in whichever fantasy they want to believe in, if Allah and his messenger and in Qur'an it doesnt approve of it, I will not believe. It's as simple as that.

Yes, only His soul was taken. Soul is only taken in either death or sleep. If hes not asleep, then he died.

Yes. I did say that jews were not able to kill him nor did they crucify Him. Its in Quran. Why would I say He got killed by Jews? He(as) never did. He died a natural death. He was not killed nor crucified by Jews. Just because both of them did not happen, does not mean one is taken up bodily. If I were to say to you, this man will not be killed, or crucified or hit by a truck, why should it otherwise mean that the person will be taken up to heavens? It simply means He will not be killed by the means mentioned, but it does not stop him from dying a natural death.

He was not caused to death. He (as) lived His life and died when death was destined for Him by Allah. Theres no rocket science in it. He died. Therefore, His body remains on Earth, while His soul departs from this temporary world, like any other human being. You need to speak to your scholars about your firm belief first. Dont fall prey of your scholars feeding you whatever, and dont keep buying it. Allah sent Quran for a reason. It is not to be handed to some scholars and let them tell you what it should mean. A true Muslim would read the Quran and would reflect and ponder upon it. If hes sleeping? No, He cant be sleeping. The body remains on Earth. In your belief, the body is not. Contradiction after contradiction..

Also, to add to your knowledge, there have been messengers sent to bani israel which were killed by fanatics. Please read the following verse :

[QUOTE]
And verily, We gave Moses the Book and caused after him Messengers to follow in his footsteps; and to Jesus, son of Mary, We gave manifest Signs, and strengthened him with the Spirit of holiness. Will you then, every time a Messenger comes to you with what you yourselves desire not, behave arrogantly and treat some as liars and slay others?
[/QUOTE]

Jesus son of Mary (as) died. He (as) was no more than a human being like us. He walked, slept, roamed around in markets, ate just like us. To keep him alive for 2012 years is making a fool out of yourself.

[psyah]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

@Mr.Popat

Jesus son of Mary (as) died. He (as) was no more than a human being like us. He walked, slept, roamed around in markets, ate just like us. To keep him alive for 2012 years is making a fool out of yourself.

Peace Mr.Popat

I'm done arguing with you, same old arguments have constantly been responded to ... I urge others to stop this useless discussion. Look, you think I'm being a fool, then so be it ... I guess I'm equally a fool for believing those people in the cave were kept alive for many years and when they woke up they thought it was a few hours ... Also I'm a fool for believing that prophet Uzayr was revived with his body after decades to find his food hot and the skeleton of his donkey.

Who am I kidding .... Everyone knows things like that don't happen ... For that matter ... Punishment in the grave and related matters are obviously foolish things to believe in ... Well then sir Popat ... I be the biggest fool around ... Peace unto you.

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

@psyah

Peace Mr.Popat

I'm done arguing with you, same old arguments have constantly been responded to ... I urge others to stop this useless discussion. Look, you think I'm being a fool, then so be it ... I guess I'm equally a fool for believing those people in the cave were kept alive for many years and when they woke up they thought it was a few hours ... Also I'm a fool for believing that prophet Uzayr was revived with his body after decades to find his food hot and the skeleton of his donkey.

Who am I kidding .... Everyone knows things like that don't happen ... For that matter ... Punishment in the grave and related matters are obviously foolish things to believe in ... Well then sir Popat ... I be the biggest fool around ... Peace unto you.

Not even once were you able to tell me where I was wrong. I gave you verses after verses explaining my side...and all you did is tried to defend your belief based on what could be possible. No where from Quran were you able to show me one instance where Allah took anyone up to heavens bodily alive, and you've said you constantly replied?

You're talking about Hazrat Uzayr(as). Heres the verse :

*
[QUOTE]
[2:260] Or like him who passed by a town which had fallen down upon its roofs, andexclaimed, ‘When will Allah restore it to life after its destruction?’ Then Allah caused him to die for a hundred years; then He raised him, and said: ‘How long hast thou remained in this state?’ He answered, ‘I have remained a day or part of a day.’ He said: ‘Nay, thou hast remained in this state for a hundred years. Now look at thy food and thy drink; they have not rotted. And look at thy ass. And We have done this that We may make thee a Sign unto men. And look at the bones, how We set them and then clothe them with flesh.’ And when this became clear to him, he said, ‘I know that Allah has the power to do all that He wills.
[/QUOTE]

*
Prophet Uzayr(as) did not die for 100 years literally. This is why you need Messiah to help you explain Quran to you. Quran is a pure book. No verse contradict another verse in it. Thats one of the miracle of Quran. It was Prophet Uzayr(as)'s vision to have seen himself dead for 100 years, as he wished to know how Allah would bring back life in a town after its destruction. His continuous prayer to know how that could happen led Allah to show him in vision that he was dead for 100 years. His donkey being alive, the food still hot shows that it was a very strong kashf.

Allah does not send back the soul in body for whom Allah has chosen to give death. Had it been the case, then where was He for 100 years? Was he in grave ? No one around him saw him dead for 100 years? Sometimes prophets see what we call 'kashf' or 'roya'.. it is like a dream but a person can literally see this happening to Him. Sleep is a form of temporary death. We as humans see dreams which are sometimes shown so clearly as if its happening in real. When we wake up, it is as if we slept for a very short period of time. Prophet Uzayr(as) was like any other prophet. He was shown vision that He(as) died for 100 years. When asked how long have u remained in that state, his reply was ' a day or part of a day '.

It is Allah who takes away soul in state of sleep and death, and send back the soul in the body for which Allah has given more time and retain the soul for which Allah destined death.

Allah says:

[QUOTE]
[2:57] Then We raised you up after your death, that you might be grateful
[/QUOTE]

This is referring to sleep. As a person is not grateful to have raised after his literal death. Sleep is a form of death.

Prophet Uzayr(as) and his donkey being coming back to life was all a vision for Him from Allah to show that Allah is well capable of giving death and bringing it back to life, but the life which will be given to a human will be in hereafter, not another life after death here on this Earth. Please do not make fairytales out of Islam. Please rationalize whats in Quran before making it part of your beliefs.

I am a firm believer of life after death. Dont tell me what should be foolish to me. Reward and punishment is promised by Allah in Quran. I cannot connect how you're telling me that these ideas must be foolish to me? Its in Quran and it make sense. Therefore I believe. To say this and this has happened , therefore why cant that happen is just foolish and make no sense whatsoever.

The whole problem with your argument is that you assume. You can argue all you like but you're definitely not talking based on what Quran teaches us. All I'm asking from you is to give me any reference where Allah took someone up to heavens bodily alive. I'm sure its a belief you hold for a reason?

No. My simple questions were never answered. One question is.. give me any reference where Allah took someone to heaven bodily alive. Dont give me your theories that this is how it could happen or may happen. I need proof from Allah's book.

You can be done talking to me but if you're sincere about the beliefs you hold, then you would definitely reflect upon what I say and not keep finding flaws in it. Be a momin, run after truth. Find truth in the holy book Quran. Have sleepless nights, praying to Lord to show you the right path. Have fear of Allah and pray to him to free you with wrong beliefs.

Oh, and Quran does not ask you to be a fool. You chose it yourself. This religion is to be a religion ruling everyone's heart. Theres no room in Islam for fairytales. Whats in Quran is authentic but needs to be understood carefully. It will all make sense to you.

Peace unto you too.

[kchughtai]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

^ Allah sometimes mentions events in a vision as having actually taken place not explicitly mentioning as they have actually dreams. For instance,
in 12:4, hazrat yousaf(as)'s dream is mentioned as

"When Joseph mentioned to his father, O my father "I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon - I saw them making obeisance to me'

[kchughtai]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

[QUOTE]

Just for a minute, keep all translations aside and by using any translation software lets translate " die a natural death" from arabic to english than its vice versa. Lets see how translated words occure. Do post snap-shot of the link of translation site.

[/QUOTE]

Fairysangel, why are you stressing on using a translation software? I have tried a few babylon and google translate. they are no good. sometimes give weird translations. Try translating 'INI MUTAWAFEEKA' with these and see what you get. I tried 'MUTAWAFI' and both gave 'DECEASED' as answer. I also tried 'TAWAFEE' and these translators gave me 'DIED'. If you have a better translator, pls do let me know.

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

@kchughtai

"When Joseph mentioned to his father, O my father "I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon - I saw them making obeisance to me'

I knew this verse.. but just couldnt recall. Thanks. Much appreciated.

[psyah]

Re: Hazrat Isa A.S.

@Mr.Popat

Not even once were you able to tell me where I was wrong. I gave you verses after verses explaining my side...and all you did is tried to defend your belief based on what could be possible. No where from Quran were you able to show me one instance where Allah took anyone up to heavens bodily alive, and you've said you constantly replied?

You're talking about Hazrat Uzayr(as). Heres the verse :

Prophet Uzayr(as) did not die for 100 years literally. This is why you need Messiah to help you explain Quran to you. Quran is a pure book. No verse contradict another verse in it. Thats one of the miracle of Quran. It was Prophet Uzayr(as)'s vision to have seen himself dead for 100 years, as he wished to know how Allah would bring back life in a town after its destruction. His continuous prayer to know how that could happen led Allah to show him in vision that he was dead for 100 years. His donkey being alive, the food still hot shows that it was a very strong kashf.

Allah does not send back the soul in body for whom Allah has chosen to give death. Had it been the case, then where was He for 100 years? Was he in grave ? No one around him saw him dead for 100 years? Sometimes prophets see what we call 'kashf' or 'roya'.. it is like a dream but a person can literally see this happening to Him. Sleep is a form of temporary death. We as humans see dreams which are sometimes shown so clearly as if its happening in real. When we wake up, it is as if we slept for a very short period of time. Prophet Uzayr(as) was like any other prophet. He was shown vision that He(as) died for 100 years. When asked how long have u remained in that state, his reply was ' a day or part of a day '.

It is Allah who takes away soul in state of sleep and death, and send back the soul in the body for which Allah has given more time and retain the soul for which Allah destined death.

Allah says:

This is referring to sleep. As a person is not grateful to have raised after his literal death. Sleep is a form of death.

Prophet Uzayr(as) and his donkey being coming back to life was all a vision for Him from Allah to show that Allah is well capable of giving death and bringing it back to life, but the life which will be given to a human will be in hereafter, not another life after death here on this Earth. Please do not make fairytales out of Islam. Please rationalize whats in Quran before making it part of your beliefs.

I am a firm believer of life after death. Dont tell me what should be foolish to me. Reward and punishment is promised by Allah in Quran. I cannot connect how you're telling me that these ideas must be foolish to me? Its in Quran and it make sense. Therefore I believe. To say this and this has happened , therefore why cant that happen is just foolish and make no sense whatsoever.

The whole problem with your argument is that you assume. You can argue all you like but you're definitely not talking based on what Quran teaches us. All I'm asking from you is to give me any reference where Allah took someone up to heavens bodily alive. I'm sure its a belief you hold for a reason?

No. My simple questions were never answered. One question is.. give me any reference where Allah took someone to heaven bodily alive. Dont give me your theories that this is how it could happen or may happen. I need proof from Allah's book.

You can be done talking to me but if you're sincere about the beliefs you hold, then you would definitely reflect upon what I say and not keep finding flaws in it. Be a momin, run after truth. Find truth in the holy book Quran. Have sleepless nights, praying to Lord to show you the right path. Have fear of Allah and pray to him to free you with wrong beliefs.

Oh, and Quran does not ask you to be a fool. You chose it yourself. This religion is to be a religion ruling everyone's heart. Theres no room in Islam for fairytales. Whats in Quran is authentic but needs to be understood carefully. It will all make sense to you.

Peace unto you too.

Peace Mr.Popat

This fool psyah here actually believes that it was real ... A miracle of Allah. What you lovingly call fairy tales ... Yep that is me. I think conversations are far better without arguing. Don't you?