Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

[Y2K_Zaid]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

@khanbabax

L0L, I can make up a statement and write a book name under it to sound smart. What volume and page numbers? :halo:

The sign of a Munafiq is hatred of Hadhrath 'Ali (as)

As a starting pointing let us consider the words of Hadhrath 'Ali (as):

“By him who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me. - Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141”

Its is little wonder that we have the testimony of Abu Said al Khudri:

“We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali.” (Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition 1086 - al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47 - al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhibb al-Tabari, v3, p242)

One wonders how Abu Sulaiman and his Nasibi brethren can prove that Mu’awiya loved Hadhrath 'Ali (as).

Let us look at some other traditions before concluding on Mu’awiya:

The Messenger of Allah said:

**“Whoever hurts Ali, has hurt me”

Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, p483; al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p263**

The Messenger of Allah said:

“Whoever curses Ali, cursed me”
1. al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p121, who mentioned this tradition is Authentic
2. Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, p323
3. Mishkat al-Masabih, English version, Tradition 6092
4. Tarikh al-Khulafa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p173

Rasulullah (s) said:

“Whoever leaves Ali, leaves me, whoever leaves me, leaves Allah” Kanz ul Ummal, hadith numbers 32974 - 32976, narrated by Abdullah ibne`Umar {through two chains} and Abu Dharr Ghaffari (ra).

[Y2K_Zaid]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

An enemy of 'Ali (as) is an enemy of Allah (swt)

We read in Riyadh al Nadira Volume 3 page 111 that Rasulullah (s) declared:
"O Allah, 'Ali is my beloved friend, and my beloved friend is a beloved friend of Allah. 'Ali] Your enemy is my enemy, and my enemy is Allah's enemy. O 'Ali destroyed are those that incur your wrath".

[Y2K_Zaid]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

**"Mu'awiya fought Ali for five years"

**Usdul Ghaba page 211

**"Mu'awiya didn't give Ali bayya but fought him. Sifeen is the war connected with this"

**Tarikhul Khulafa page 195 Volume 2

**Mu'awiya fought Ali and rebelled against him and also rebelled against Imam Hasan

**Al Bidaya page 21 Volume 8

**Mu'awiya opposed Ali's bay'a and Sifeen is the result of this action

**

[Y2K_Zaid]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

The books of Ahl'ul Sunnah are replete with references which prove that Mu'awiya's opposition was an act of rebellion.

1. Al Isaba page 412
2. Usd al Ghaba page 211
3. Al Isti'ab page 376 Volume 3
4. Al Bidaya page 21 Volume 8
5. Tareekh Khamis Volume 2 page 386
6. Tarikhul Khulafa page 195 Volume 2
7. Nayl al Autar page 179 Volume 7 *]Al Nisaayaul kaafiya page 16

[Y2K_Zaid]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

1. **At the time of Bayya, Ali approached the mosque, got on the Minbar and the general public gave him bayya"

**This refutes Nasibi claims that he didn't get ijma hence Mu'awiya opposition to Imam e Haqq made him a baghi who could not place conditions
1. Al Akhbar al Tiwal page 140

"Abu Hanifa Duny Dhuree comments that after Hadhrath Uthman's death people were without an Imam for three days. They gave Ali bayya after careful thought and he said whoever opposes me has opposed Islam as this decision was not taken in haste".
1. Shara Aqaid al Nasfee page 105

"The grand Muhajireen and Ansar had an ijma in the khilafath of Ali happily. They accepted his khilafat and gave him bayya"
1. Tahzeeb ul Tahzeeb page 338 Volume 7
1. Nisai ul Kaafiya page
1. al Imama wal Siyasa oage 44 Vol 1
*]Tarikh ul Khulafa page 174

[Y2K_Zaid]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

**"Baghi is one who indulges in an act that is not halaal. A baghi is one who opposes Imam-e-Haqqa".

**al-Nasa'ih al-Kaafiyah page 16

"Baghi is one who refuses to obey Imam-e-Haqq and opposes him".

The late scholar Sayyid Abu'l A`la Maudoodi in his 'Tafhim ul Qur'an' Volume 5 page 80 collates the opinions of the Ahl'ul Sunnah `ulama about a 'baghi'. He writes:

"Ibne Khumman in Hidaya's commentary Fathul Qadir states that the scholars have declared that a baghi is he who disobeys the rightful Imam. Imam Shafii in Kitab ul-Umm states 'Baghi' is he who fights theAdil Imam. Imam Malik declared that it is a duty to fight those who oppose the 'Adil Imam [al Mudawanna]".

[Y2K_Zaid]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

Allah (swt) says in his Glorious Book:

"O you who believe! Obey Allah and his Apostle and those in authority among you". (Al-Quran, Surah Nisa, Verse 59)

It is interesting that 'Abu Sulaiman has failed to comment on this verse in his lengthy article. This is a clear verse that proves beyond a doubt that Mu'awiya's opposition was one that contravened the Book of Allah (swt). This verse provides no room for manoeuvre. Obedience to those in authority is on par with obedience to Allah (swt) and the Prophet (s). This means that disobeying the Leader amounts to disobeying Allah (swt) and his Prophet (s). The verse is absolutely clear. How can anyone interpret this verse as entitling someone to rebel against a leader. Anyone who does so is a rebel.

Now answer:

• Does Imam Ali (as) not come within this verse?
• Was he not 'those in authority'?
• Is he not the fourth rightly guided khalifa? *]Did Mu'awiya obey him?

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

This thread is FILLED with one-way conversations.

[Y2K_Zaid]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

@PyariCgudia

This thread is FILLED with one-way conversations.

Jee, you r right .

[MAKRANI]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

I wish all Muawiya well wishers a place close to Muawiya in aakhrat and all Muawiya haters a place close to Ali a.s on the day of judgement. Now everybody should be happy. You are either with ALI a.s or you are against Ali a.s, there is NO place in between.

[Lajawab]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

@MAKRANI

I wish all Muawiya well wishers a place close to Muawiya in aakhrat and all Muawiya haters a place close to Ali a.s on the day of judgement. Now everybody should be happy. You are either with ALI a.s or you are against Ali a.s, there is NO place in between.

Ameen Summa Ameen…

P.S. May all haters go to the place where all haters go…

[system]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

@Faisal

I am generally a fairly laid back person, but this thread has taken one-sided conversation to a new level.

dawa_i_dil dude, #1 you don’t need to create a separate post for each of these. You can actually put them in one post. #2, you gotta give other people a chance to respond. What you are doing is considered “major flooding” in discussion forum lingo, which is a major no-no.

I am keeping this thread open for now just because you have spent way too much time copy pasting here. Next time you may want to go easy on colors too.

Salam Faisal bhai…
Ok i will take care next time but the article was too long and seperated into politcal aspects of muavia(ra) caliphate..the historical vents…and yazeed succession matter..all in one articla..so thats why i seperated thes things into seperate pieces so that people can read it seperately…anyways..i was using the opportunity of holiday of Basant night… and so i spent few hours on it…next time i will give it in one post…

Best regards
wasalam…

[nstar777]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

@PyariCgudia

That would be the goal.

You think they’re reading the way you’re posting stuff up now?

Take a hike PCG, This stuff is beyond you and dont worry about others.

[system]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

@Y2K_Zaid

**“Baghi is one who indulges in an act that is not halaal. A baghi is one who opposes Imam-e-Haqqa”.

**al-Nasa’ih al-Kaafiyah page 16

“Baghi is one who refuses to obey Imam-e-Haqq and opposes him”.

The late scholar *Sayyid Abu’l Ala Maudoodi* in his **'Tafhim ul Qur'an' Volume 5 page 80** collates the opinions of the Ahl'ul Sunnah ulama about a ‘baghi’. He writes:

“Ibne Khumman in Hidaya’s commentary Fathul Qadir states that the scholars have declared that a baghi is he who disobeys the rightful Imam. Imam Shafii in Kitab ul-Umm states 'Baghi' is he who fights the Adil Imam. Imam Malik declared that it is a duty to fight those who oppose the 'Adil Imam [al Mudawanna]”.

And in case of usman(ra) you called these Baghis…the revolutionists…My salute !!!

and muavia(ra) was actually in hunt of these “revolutinists”…

[nstar777]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

@MAKRANI

I wish all Muawiya well wishers a place close to Muawiya in aakhrat and all Muawiya haters a place close to Ali a.s on the day of judgement. Now everybody should be happy. You are either with ALI a.s or you are against Ali a.s, there is NO place in between.

What about the possibilty of them being together and on one side on the day of judgement? where would that leave all the present day fools who are fighting and killing each other without knowing and understanding the real truth.

[khanbabax]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

@MAKRANI

I wish all Muawiya well wishers a place close to Muawiya in aakhrat and all Muawiya haters a place close to Ali a.s on the day of judgement. Now everybody should be happy. You are either with ALI a.s or you are against Ali a.s, there is NO place in between.

Hazrat Ali r.a. and Hazrat Muawiya r.a will be together on the day of judgemnet, haters of Hazrat Muawiya r.a. cant be with Hazrat Ali r.a.

[system]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

The whole point of Makrani and Y2k-Zaid post is that there was **hatred **between them..as there are ahadees in hatred of ali(ra) so muavia(ra) was in the line of hadees...but who tells that whoever fighted with ali(ra) ...is in hatred with him....infact aysha(ra) ..talha(ra) and zubair(ra) stood up against him..so is this mean that they are in hatred of ali(ra) ????????? no sir...zubair(ra) and talha(ra) were the one who had been alloted jannah in this world ...so how can you fit
the situation ?????

furthermore..there was **a difference of opinion **between these two not hatred...when muavia(ra) had some fiqah poblem..he had to consult to ali(ra) and ali(ra) instantly replied back with generousity...when a roman emperor tried to mobilized his armies near syria..muavia(ra) wrote him that if you not move your forces back..i will unite with my uncle's son and fight against you....

[system]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

At the death of ali(ra) he said that today the door of **ilm and knowledge **have closed..is this the attitude of a man who hatessomeone ?????
furthermore he said one of sahabi to narrate about ali(ra) ...that sahabi said ali(ra) was brave and unmatched warrior ... he spent his nights praying and weeping in mosque and many other such qualities...Ameer muavia(ra) started weeping upon hearing this and said true..ali(ra) was exactly what you have narrated....

[khanbabax]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

Difference between Sahabas was Ijtehadi Ikhtelaf, and if you are right in your Ijtehad you get atleast 2 rewards, and 1 reward for a person who is wrong in his Ijtehad. Differences between Sahabas were not for Wordly or personal gains as Shias try their best to potray it as that.

[system]

Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans

The hadees of hatred of ali(ra) actually talks about the "Khwarjites" who used to abuse ali(ra) on his face ...they ridiculed him and used vulgar words against him..as he killed his relatives in battle of Neharwan...so when Ibne Maljam was appointed to kill ali(ra)...he consired this vicious act the greatest sawaab deed.....