Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Link doesn't work, and this is no way to start a thread. Post an article if you want (not just a link), but do give some comments of your own as to what you want to discuss.
Thanks.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
The site was working fine just few mins, maybe down for some technical problems, give it some time.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Give your own comments, sir ji, and a synopsis of the article in english. Not everyone here can read urdu, you know.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
In short, a Muslim guy was arrested by the Romans and taken to Constantinople, and one of the vizers of the Roman king slapped that Muslim. That guy uttered "O, Muawiya Allah will judge between you me on the day of Judgement, you are our Ameer and look what is happenind to us". When this news reached Ameer Muawiya r.a, first thing he did was to released that Muslim by paying ransom, and after that it talks about how they took revenge on that vizer, how they tricked him and brough him to Syria, had that Quershi slave slap that vizer, and after that they let him go. This put the fear of Muslims and Ameer Mauwiya in the heart of Roman King. (Tareekh Qurtubi)
We need rulers like these today who will say labeek on a call of any ordinary Muslim.
My translation is not that good, cant compare it to Urdu
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
what he probably means is that muawiyah followed the customs of the romans and was called "caeser of the arabs"
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Dont worry. We do have such shrewd politians these days!
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Agreed! I think these theatrics are played by politicians these days even. Prime Minister gave a surprise visit and found that a shopkeeper is selling over price. He orders him to be hanged upside down. What is required from a ruler is not theatrics but committed work over long term.
Ameer Muawiya is not in any case worth praising. He broke the democratic structure of Khilafaat and forever put us in this misery of autocracy that too in favor of his idiot son Yazeed. Its time that we sunnies should stop glorifying persons like him.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
^ so just because of one wrong decision u think that he is not worth praising????
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Yes. That is mother of all wrong decisions. What about his duel with Hazrat Ali. How he decieved Hazrat Ali by using his representative Amr cleverly against abu musa.
we all agree that Hazrat Abu Bakar was the first caliph as he was a comparable sahabee to hazrat Ali. Tell me was muawiyya any way comparable to Hazrat Ali?
His all basis of khilafat was Qisas e Usman. He actually utilized it as a political stunt to make political inroads. No sensible muslim either sunni or shia can praise him for his deeds. I think he is liable to be the single biggest source of discrimination in Islam. Even Hazrat Ali had accepted the first three caliphs and worked with him but since he decieved Hazrat Ali and than once his son killed Hazrat Imam Hussain, i think that was the point of no return.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Sir plz...do not talk about a sahabi like such a manner ...he was afterall...the sahabi and wahi writer.....umar ...who was a jem-finder ..discover this jewel to rule syria and he did it so well that in umar(ra) , usman(ra) period that islam had a firm grip in whole of this region to this day...in all of his period ..the conquests started again which ewere blocked by rebellions in usman(ra) last years and ali(ra) whole period...... 20 years he ruled as a caliph and his whole period was complete harmony ..peace ..and conquests.....
Regarding he decieved in a battle...prophet(pbuh) himself used the deceiving stategy to win the war of Khundaq in 5 hijri when naeem(ra) a newly converted muslim used the decieving tactics to create misconceptions between banu nuzair and quraish of makkah...and prophet(pbuh) then said...in battle decieveness is allowed.....
Furthermore was not divided by him ..it was divided at usman(ra) death...furthermore...whatsoever yazeed was...he never ordered to kill hussain(ra) !!!!!
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Yep. And Hitler is not responsible for the carnage in WW2 either. The killing of jews? ah it were the soldiers!
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Yazeed was whatsoever ..he was not a damn fool...he was a son of muavia(ra) ...one of the greatest stateman of history of arabia...... did he not know the **consequences **of killing the **dearest personality **of islam at that time????? no sir jee no... i have already given the reason of killing of hussain(ra) in muharram as well as a questions to shia threads....
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
and nice to see you back on the forum... really i am happy....
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Well sir, i need to tell you one thing, he never deceived in battle but in a shura. He nominated Amr and Hazrat Ali nominated Abu Musa as their arbitrators. Amr advised to abu musa that we should absolve our ameers and find a new consensus one. Abu musa thought that this is not a bad idea to stop the fight amongst muslims. But before announcement amr said to abu musa that you are bigger than stature to me so you announce first. He announced that i dismiss both of them from the position of khalifa. So legally abu musa dismissed hazrat Ali but of course his decision about muawiyya was kind of non binding till amr says so. Amr said that i agree to dismiss ali but keep muawiyya in position so that he can take qisas usman. so the khilafaat was transferred to Muawiyya. Though Hazrat Ali's party denied to accept the results but arrow had left the bow. His own representative had dismissed him. Now tell me this is same as what prophet did?
Also commander is sole resposible to results. Yazeed was the king, why did he let the situation go so wrong afterall? Was he not knowing what is going on for so many days in Karballa? Imam Hussain could have been taken as prisoner, but he preferred to kill all his family.
About being sahabee, i would say that Allah knows best, but he is not worth glorifying because we do not like shias speaking against first three caliphs. They will alone be answerable to their deeds, but we should not start golrifying these people just to oppose shias.
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Brother.....What i can say anything ...as again there was a great sahabi , amr bin aala;s (ra)...the conquerer of egypt ...one of great statesman ..thats why quraish sent him to Najashi **court ......and when he and khalid bin waleed toghether came to accept islam..prophet(pbuh) cried with joy that ...today makkah has sent its pieces of liver and heart to us......and he was one of the greatest commander of islamic history...... and sahabi of such a repute ..... i cannot even equal to the **sand of his feet......
but still in shura ...he was in a state of battle with ali(ra) as war had not yet stopped ......but yes i cannot personally like this thing....and Allah knows the best..this what i can only say.....
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Off course i agree to you that Allah knows best but remember you are banking on one reported Hadith of Prophet and negating on other side thousands on Hazrat Ali. If amr was a statesman, so be it. Many others were there as well, but the man he decieved was Ali, the son-in-law of the prophet.
Also amr bin Aas was the liver of Makkah may be, but he was no way match to Hazrat Ali or even Hazrat Abu Musa Ashari. In this thing i just request that just do not glorify people who are so highly controversial just to oppose another group like shias who routinely speak non-sense about first three caliphs, but by glorifying such people we are actually demeaning Ali (ra).
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Regarding Yazeed... there was a great responsibily of him for worsing the situation and powerfully taking the oath...but he never himself ordered to kill hussain(ra) ...it were kufis ...who killed them otherwise they had to be killed if hussain(ra) ever tried to put 600 letters in front of yazeed .......infact yazeed started crying when he saw heads of ahle-bait and cried with anger that O you *******s..... why you not brought hussain(ra) to me so that i could negociate with him as my father(r) negociated with hassan(r) .......
yazeed was of not a good character but it will be great un-justice that we blame him for the thing he never did or ordered it.....
Re: Hazrat Ameer Muawiya r.a and the Romans
Did he killed all those who disobeyed him in battle and killed Hazrat Imam Hussain without his orders? History is the best judge.