Re: Having Four Wives
If a person is WEALTHY and KIND HEARTED, there are thousands of ways to share the wealth and love. SADQA and raising ORPHANS being 2 of those thousand ways (and most liked by GOD). Quite pity how we jump the guns and want to do things that are “allowed” by Allah (like 4 marriages) and don’t pay attention on the things that Allah has “asked and stressed” (Sadqa, raising orphans, helping poors etc) us to do.
Re: Having Four Wives
It is perfectly lawful in very specific circumstances and is highly discouraged. Just because something is common in the NWFP doesn't mean that God approves. Is homosexuality, which is prevalent in a lot of NWFP tribes, sanctioned by God? Is honor killing, which is prevalent in the NWFP, sancionted by God. Go learn to argue before biting the head off of anyone who doesn't agree with your pathan customs.
bingo! i couldn't agree with you more.
Re: Having Four Wives
It is perfectly lawful in very specific circumstances and is highly discouraged. Just because something is common in the NWFP doesn't mean that God approves. Is homosexuality, which is prevalent in a lot of NWFP tribes, sanctioned by God? Is honor killing, which is prevalent in the NWFP, sancionted by God. Go learn to argue before biting the head off of anyone who doesn't agree with your pathan customs.
Savage tribal ideas? It's these tribal fighters - these virile men with a spine - who have stood up to America and fought it tooth and nail in the NWFP, while disgusting oily ticks like you crawl up the ar$eholes of Westerners by disparaging your culture and your origin in order to ingratiate yourselves with them.
Islam permits polygamy and although legal opinions may be divided, Islam does not have to offer any apologies or arguments in its defence. There is nothing shameful in having more than one wife and none of you wannabe goras have offered any arguments against the practice.
Re: Having Four Wives
Actually mr wunder, my hubby is from NWFP and is a strictly monogomous man and comes from a family who practices monogomy. Yes, you CAN "get away with it", it IS legal. But its nothing but an excuse to give in to lust...never have we met a polygamist who married for any other reason.
You think everything is about lust, obviously you're looking at us from your Western prism. I never said that men would only do it out of lust. Why would any libidinous lecher want to marry again? He'd simply just go to a brothel. In fact, in the classical age a man would have been able to purchase concubines to sate his lust; why marry 4 wives?
Your hubby's family may be monogamous but that doesn't mean that the practice isn't common in the Islamic world (especially Arabia, North Africa etc).
Re: Having Four Wives
Heres the thing. All of you defenders of polygamy have never once (at least that I've seen) expressed a "good" reason for it. ie., marrying a widow, marrying to care for one who cannot provide for herself.
Rationalizations seem to be "I'm a big enough MAN to handle more than one woman" or the more typical "It IS allowed so if the first wife doesnt like it, let her divorce." This makes me mad as hell.
The polygamists that I've met are married to women who cannot divorce because they do not have the ability to care for themselves so they're stuck. They are without exception heartbroken women and without exception the husbands have taken on more wives due to either lust or pregnancy. Its disgusting that these men walk around like strutting roosters because "its ALLOWED."
Quite honestly, I dont think it really IS allowed in this way and this is the ONLY way I've seen it happen.
Re: Having Four Wives
:(
Re: Having Four Wives
my man wouldnt be shared between 3 other women
Re: Having Four Wives
Wunderkind, I don’t get it, why so much hate for westerners? Did your US Visa not get approved? You preach Islam and God, yet, you argue by taking cheap personal shots. Calling me a disgusting oily tick who crawls up the arseholes of westerners, you have sunk down to the level of pond scum and thereby completely making your argument moot. Who would listen to a lowlife, uneducated, angry git like you? So I don’t think anyone needs to argue with you anymore, you don’t see anyone arguing with a cockroach, that’s what you are.
Re: Having Four Wives
ease up on the pathan bashing guys, i'm pathan, niether me nor any pathan i know (except for one) approves of poligamy unless conditions require it, war ect.. the only other guy i know who considered it was from mirpur, but i talked him out of it, i know pathans can be misleading by the way we conduct ourselves, but we aint all that bad.....PS, wunderkid don't know sh~@
Re: Having Four Wives
ive never rlly met a person wid four wives..but in pakistan two is quite common....as far as i no...:)
Re: Having Four Wives
sad but true!
Re: Having Four Wives
chacha khan, I apologize, I didn’t mean for it to sound like pathans are savages, but according to wunderkind they are.
Re: Having Four Wives
As if Westerners need you to defend them. What's it got to do with whether you get a visa or not? You think people in your OWN country can never have any genuine uncoloured views about the West? You wouldn't think the same about a Westerner. At least I'm a proud cockroach, rather than a self-hating self-deprecating one like you!
Re: Having Four Wives
Rationalizations seem to be "I'm a big enough MAN to handle more than one woman" or the more typical "It IS allowed so if the first wife doesnt like it, let her divorce." This makes me mad as hell.
The polygamists that I've met are married to women who cannot divorce because they do not have the ability to care for themselves so they're stuck. They are without exception heartbroken women and without exception the husbands have taken on more wives due to either lust or pregnancy. Its disgusting that these men walk around like strutting roosters because "its ALLOWED."
Quite honestly, I dont think it really IS allowed in this way and this is the ONLY way I've seen it happen.
There is no more good reason for it than the fact that it's permitted by religious law subject to the satisfaction of certain conditions. Provided these conditions are satisfied, there is nothing wrong with this practice and any Muslim who calls for the practice to be banned or restricted is an apostate for he or she is seeking to make unlawful that which God has made lawful.
In fact, there are many other haraam acts that flourish in Muslim countries such as the charging of interest, gambling, alcohol and insurance, yet when one wants to exercise one's prerogative as granted by the Qur'an one is unremittingly vilified as a "mullah" "fundamentalist" etc etc.
Re: Having Four Wives
Mr Wunder, while you are so busily bashing westerners and easterners alike...you have ignored the question at hand....that being the REASONING behind having more than one wife and the reasoning for it that makes it sanctioned by the Islaamic religion. YOUR reason seems to be:
If a guy is really wealthy, powerful but also with a good kind heart, why shouldn't he share of his spirit with four women? Why should one woman capture him and exclude all others?
and ps see my other response about men who use the pathetic excuse that "its ALLOWED"....may you see the reality of this BEFORE you go breaking the heart of some poor gal who can't see thru you.
...meaning that you THINK you are all-male and all-powerful and all-virile....sorry my laddie but the gals would deem you pathetic. Nowhere did I see that you want an extra wife who NEEDS your care because she cannot care for herself.....and THAT is the basis for having an extra wife in the first place.
So my friend keep your hormones under control, cold showers may help although in your case I doubt it. You came here obviously seeking other male approval for your drooling fantasies but western or eastern or martian, I havent seen any approval (other than yuk-yuk joking) for your view.
Re: Having Four Wives
I was standing up for Islam because people are increasingly tampering with Islam's rules in order to make it more palatable to Westerners. Those Muslims who connive in this treachery are as guilty as the crusaders.
The reasoning behind a rule is irrelevant. The fact that a rule exists to legitimise a practice is enough. When a law is established it is not legitimate to question the reasoning behind it, unless the law is vague and one needs help in interpreting it. But the rule in question here is clear and precise enough. The conditions attached to having four wives are there to do justice and equity to the wives.
If a guy is really wealthy, powerful but also with a good kind heart, why shouldn't he share of his spirit with four women? Why should one woman capture him and exclude all others? ...
...meaning that you THINK you are all-male and all-powerful and all-virile....sorry my laddie but the gals would deem you pathetic. Nowhere did I see that you want an extra wife who NEEDS your care because she cannot care for herself.....and THAT is the basis for having an extra wife in the first place...
Read my original post again. I never said anything about myself. I posed a general question for the purpose of discussion. I said if a man is wealthy and kind-hearted why shouldn't he share OF his spirit with many women? You obviously weren't brought up in the East, otherwise you would've seen the large numbers of destitute women who turn to prostitution because they don't have anyone to support them. It's evils like this that the rule is there to cure. It's true I didn't place any emphasis on the needs of the woman but on the man's attributes, but the rule itself does not provide that one can only marry four wives if the extra wives are "in need". Why should there be such a qualification?
Once again you're seeing everything in terms of lust, but that's not surprising, considering where you come from. I'm sure true Muslims don't disapprove a practice that is clearly validated by the Quran. If some apostates do, what can one do about it? On
Re: Having Four Wives
It is allowed but not for any AYYASHI purpose. It is for the reasons to help out the orphans and other in distress on purely religious and humanitarian reasons. Neeyat pe depend karta ha, INNAMAL AIMAL Bin NIYYAT:)
Re: Having Four Wives
...and once again, ad nauseum Mr Wunder.....I tell you that I have NEVER ONCE seen a good reason for polygamy and have seen nothing but devastation, heartbreak and unhappiness for the poor wives who are forced to deal with the uncaring, strutting roosters who hide behind "its allowed". I've seen my fair share of polygamous marriages over there and as I said before (and what you are so very conveniently IGNORING) is that without exception, the second wives either got pregnant or the guy just decided too bad, I'm just gonna do it, first wife be dammed. And I'm talking about IN PAK, IN NWFP, not in the west. If you can even CONSIDER marrying another wife when you know that it would break the heart of your one, true wife then you are nothing but a heartless cad who uses religion to rationalize heartless, cruel and selfish behavior. I think the post just above mine explains this better.
Re: Having Four Wives
It may be that the rule is being abused and that duplicitous men are invoking the rule in bad faith, without discharging their duties as husbands. If this is true and the evidence is far from conclusive on this point, then it is to be regretted. But simply because a particular rule is being abused does not mean we can commit the sacrilege of rewriting the Quran. We cannot judge God.
Even if halal polygamy is causing problems, they are not as bad as the problems that stem from permissiveness and fornication.
If my wife was a true believing Muslim, then I should have thought she wouldn't have any objection to me taking another wife, say on humanitarian grounds.
Re: Having Four Wives
yes but your entire argument seems to stem not from humanitarian reasons under dire circumstances, but because men can. thats not a good enough reason or a good enough argument. and it is certainly NOT allowed by islamic law under those conditions.
you seem to be familiar with the Quran, so read that bit again. UNLESS there is war, famine, disease etc. and an acute shortage of men because of those factors, you cannot marry 4 women. islam is a very common sense religion and in those times, with those factors, it makes sense. but where in pakistan are we fighting a war or disease or conditions where there is such a shortage of men? we are not. there are no such dire conditions. so why the reason for 4 wives? again, the Quran specifically states that under normal circumstances, multiple wives are NOT permitted because you cannot do justice to them and treat them all equally, no matter what you might yourself think. that is stated by God himself. so therefore it is NOT allowed in times of peace... which, i'm pretty sure, is what we have in pakistan at the moment. so therefore, no, no one is rewriting the Quran and certainly no one is judging God, naoozobillah. we're just reading the ENTIRE rule including the conditions, instead of stopping at the line where it says "you can have 4 wives."
as for evidence of wife-abuse stemming from someone wanting 4, well im sorry, but there you have your blinders on. wife-abuse is very prevalent in pakistan- and it doesnt matter how prevalent it is in the west, thats beside the point. but it DOES happen in pakistan, people DO twist Islam and the Quran to suit their own purposes, and you would be very naive not to admit that.