Well, can you honestly say then that you have studied every religion and have come to the conclusion that Islam the the truth? If not, your statement is invalid. Abrahamic religions aren’t the only religions in existence and Islam isn’t the newest religion either! There are hundred others that you and I probably never even heard of! Unless you have studied every one of them, you can’t possibly conclude that you have come to know the truth in one religion. It’s faith. It’s called faith for a reason. It’s illogical by definition and doesn’t have to be based on evidence of any sort.
Not changing the subject at all, buddy. Do you believe in a religion without a deity?
If 20 people claim to be you, do I need to consider them all equal in every aspect just because they claim it? No! Because you can see me and talk to me. Very simple.
If 20 religions claim to be “the religion” do I need to consider them all equal in every aspect just because they claim it? YES! If “the religion” claims to be from an unseen deity, you must consider all other religions that claim to be from an unseen deity.
I have been simply and very respectfully answering your questions. I have not proposed any theories on any religion. You keep trying to stir sh** up and I have declined to play along and escalate it.
It’s an example of what we are capable of. There are many people with amazing abilities, why would you even deny that? Information circulates, period.
..But then I will need a theory for every scripture then, not just the Quran. You are focused on one religion where I have been trying to convey that in order to consider on religion to be the ultimate truth, you must consider all others that make similar claims and one by one dismiss them and narrow down your list. It is your faith that compels you to believe in Islam and only Islam without having studied other religions. Not everyone shares your level of faith in one religion. I will not focus on one religion because it’s the wrong approach in order to find the truth. Unless I am willing to sit down and study every religion of God, I cannot make the claim that Islam is the truth or even leave out other religions and come up with random theories about Islam and Quran.
This is my last reply to you, Monk. You can take your questions and assumptions and shove 'em where the sun doesn’t shine. You have done name calling in this thread and made several personal attacks on multiple members.
@Theorist you dont have one line worth answering. Diverted … and showed anger etc…
With all due respect … all I wanted you help put your thought together on one subject.
You should trying doing it your own. Then look at them.
Let me know if I could be any help.
I don’t need to add anything. That’s pretty much a given. God is considered the ultimate authority figure so anything that claims to be from it must be scrutinized. You said it yourself, if each religion claims to be the one and true religion, how can others be unless there are multiple Gods? Does this even align with your faith?
But why the hell not? That’s the issue I brought up a few pages ago of not being able to verify a source by other means. All claims about something unseen, unfelt, untouched must be considered and processed EQUALLY. YES. The difference is in what is being claimed. It’s common sense really. Let me tell you what I mean by this difference.
“Twenty people saw a ghost” OK, I can accept that claim
“Twenty people saw a ghost but 10 say the ghost was white, 10 say the ghost was black” OK, both claims can’t be true at the same unless there were two ghosts so I must consider both claims.
“Twenty people saw a ghost but now the 5 of 10 people who think the ghost was white think the ghost talked to them and the 5 of the 10 people who think the ghost was black think the ghost didn’t make a sound” OK, now I can be pretty sure they saw a ghost but I don’t know whether the ghost was black or white or if it said anything.
Makes sense? Why does this line of thinking go out the window when it comes to religion? Because it’s faith… I am sure every one of those people who saw a ghost are sure of what they saw and heard but are incapable of convincing others.
No I haven’t studied every religion. But if one source is proven true to me that it is the word of God then surely because it is the word of God it is taken as true. I believe Islam to be the truth because the Qur’an has been proven true to me. If Qur’an is proven wrong to me then I would conclude it is not true and therefore Islam is not the truth. Not everyone needs to search for the truth some people are lucky enough to have it right in front of them. For you faith is illogical and doesn’t have to be based on evidence for me however and many many others the Quran is our evidence and our faith is logically based on that evidence. The Quran itself encourages us to think and challenges anyone to disprove it. It obviously has been disproven to you but it hasn’t been disproven to me.
Key point, isn’t it? It’s your truth. That’s what I have been trying to convey this whole time. It IS called faith for a reason. To speak of logic purely, it must be universal to be accepted by everyone otherwise it is indeed JUST YOUR logic/subjective logic.
After a long time I come to the conclusion that the Holy Koran is the Truth. It informs us about one God. I believe that Islam is the Key to a heavenly life. Islam connects us with God. It is beautiful. I can’t tell you. You have to study it for yourself. Nothing can change my mind and nothing will. I’m writing that with full confidence.
I don’t need to study other Religions because God speaks only of one God whereas some religions speak of multiple Gods. And God solves this problem himself by asking who is more guided? Someone who has one God or someone who has multiple and these multiple Gods are at odds with oneself?
Yes you did. Its very evident from our entire conversation we were speaking about religion in general and not their claims of speaking to God. Here is the simple fact you are being stubborn because you can’t defend your position. Its too hard for you to simply state that Islam has a chance of being the true faith.
Why? I have no clue. I have no problem saying Christianity or Judaism could very well be right on their own. Without any linkages or caveats. You seem to have that issue due to ego and/or insecurity.
I don’t think I’m getting my point across maybe the wording was wrong. I use myself as an example in reply to you saying that God has no evidence and faith is illogical. I’m trying to say that faith can be based on logical evidence. But I think you’re getting the wrong end of the stick. You’re not getting the point that faith isnt based on nothing. And its not just my logic its logic that’s shared by 1.6 billion. Its not just my truth. I don’t think I’m explaining myself very well. I apologise for that.
I think you are very polite. But I would like to respectfully point out that just because 1.6 billion people believe something doesn’t make it logic or true.
Let alone the fact that amongst the 1.6 billion, there are different belief systems, all of which cannot be true. And that is ok. That’s why it is called faith.
People fuss about “sharia” and religion intertwined in law.
Except the “laws” based out of rules/advice in the Quran are fairly general and common sense for the most part. Leaving aside the gender stuff, and keeping in mind, humans have changed in terms of their views of polygamy/marriage/relationships/women in general, the rest of the Quran is pretty basic and is actually already incorporated in some form in laws around the world.
So people can cry all they want about the Sharia, most people are practicing various aspects of it in their legal lives anyway.
I get how today some things are not palatable to us, but culture was different in the ancient world. They did a LOT of weird things back then. And to them, if they saw our culture, they may think WE are backwards.
For the time period in which it was revealed and that it was revealed to patriarchical tribes that were BRUTAL in their treatment of women, orphans, the poor, slaves, etc, the Quran opens up a humanitarian window in that ancient world.
And that’s why it spread SO FAST. There is not one empire that spread and was built so rapidly with such little fighting and sword-work. There always does take some sword-work and to ignore that is ridiculous because there isn’t one nation currently in existence that didn’t come into independence with some violence.
It just takes the reality of humanity, suffering, conflict over resources, selfishness, ego, and makes a system that is somewhat WORKABLE. For a man who was ILLITERATE - widely was known for not being able to read or write - to be able to MAKE UP the Quran is hard to believe.
For me, I think it became a fact, when I read Surah Yaseen and I asked my mom to read the translation because she loves reading that surah for some reason. So in that surah, there is some talk about how a life is born out of a seed from a man and a seed from a woman.
Microscopes didn’t exist back then, yet the Quran is able to tell us about sperm and an egg.
I got my first sex education from the Quran.
Just think about that for a second (sort of makes it funny for me when I see muslim moms pulling their kids out of sex ed in school).
So if a man who is illiterate, doesn’t know the scientific method cuz it hasn’t been invented yet, doesn’t have a time travel machine, doesn’t have a microscope or any knowledge about science, is able to make up verses about a sperm and an egg, then that’s some seriously crazy psychosis there.
Or you could actually believe there is a God, and he chose to communicate with humanity thru Messengers. shrugs We can buy into the Hunger Games and Star trek fantasy worlds, why can’t we buy into this theory?
Those who live in the US have the luxury of being dismissive of legitimate concerns for reasonable people wrt mixing of religion and government. The Quran for the most part may be based on common sense guidelines..Am pretty sure that is not the bone of contention here. Portions of the Quran may be implemented “in some form as laws around the world”. Not sure there will be much to disagree here also. And yes, due to above, most people may be practicing “various aspects” of it in their “legal” lives. Again. Nothing to disagree.
Sharia law would NOT allow folks to simply pick and choose as you have done. A Christian lady who was sentenced to death for some perceived offense against Islam (some complained she drank from same well or said something against a religious figure) or a person sentenced to jail for allegedly disposing of the Quran in an inappropriate manner may have a different take on this.
So will the blogger sentenced in Saudi Arabia to 1000 lashes and 10 years in jail for perceived insults.
It is mind boggling folks who grew up in the west don’t see the utter ridiculousness of having laws based on a specific interpretation of a specific religion.
I don’t think sharia would ever work, OR SHOULD BE INTRODUCED, in countries like the US. Doesn’t work in societies where people are from various backgrounds.
But I think in a country like Pakistan, if they aligned their laws with the Quran, and they actually did it properly, it could work. Issue is which sharia do you pick?
And I think that’s where the fallacy lies. What is sharia?
Honestly, the Quran has fairly generalized basic rules. It doesn’t get into specifics, and if we recall the story of the calf, if we get into such nitty gritty specifics and fight each other we are doomed.
So if “sharia” could simply be just the big picture rules: i.e. no usury, no murdering, no stealing, etc, it wouldn’t be so threatening.
Then you have “sharias” that are doctored with corruption. Like rules from the Taliban. Many of their rules are considered by THEM to be religion based, but they’re not. Like burning down girls’ schools, really?
Similarly, Saudi has various crimes for which they behead, except the Quran hasn’t ever assigned these punishments, and there is no evidence for these in the hadith either.
They beheaded a guy for smuggling heroin into the country.
Really now? The country where the saudi royals are boozing it up? Is there any evidence that people who have drug problems should be beheaded?
No.
So, muslims are where they are now, because we have actually drifted AWAY from Islam. We make up things that don’t exist.
ex. the niqaab.
ex. mandatory beards
ex. punishments that never existed in the first place - ex. beheadings for drug smuggling
ex. banning education for girls
etc etc.
And it’s because these types of rules get doctored in, and stupid jaahil people end up believing them with total DOGMA to the point they’re willing to kill to protect these backward ideas they think are part of Islam, THAT’s why “sharia” should not be allowed.
Because people don’t understand real Sharia, or how to implement it responsibly.
To implement sharia, pehle, musalmaan bana parta hai. Musalmaan pehle musalmaan ban jaye, then these idiots can talk about sharia.
And furthermore jurisprudence is not to be in the hands of “scholars” who have no background in actual law education, not in today’s time period. But if we say , well, Abu Bakr didn’t have a law degree, but he was a Caliph…
Yeah great stupid people, there were no law schools back then.
Yet, that’s the logic that is being used by proponents of “sharia” law. They think if you have someone who has no worldy education and expertise in anything, but has read the Quran, then you can run a country.
Biggest example: Taliban. And Mullah Omer. Many sources talk about how he , a simple VILLAGER, read the Quran, then decided to take over a country. Putting aside obvious facts that other countries, and secret service agencies backed him up with resources, and he is a puppet whether he realizes it or not, he has no authority to be running a country. Doesn’t matter how religious he is. He has no KNOWLEDGE of running a country.
But people think Muhammad (SAW) didn’t go to college, so why should they have to.
And that’s the state we are in. This is how we as muslims define “sharia” today. It’s no wonder every sensible person runs away from it.
southie bhi jee sakoon rakheen.... most of the muslim do not support living under sharia law…
reason we do not have trust in any religious body so we give it control of our lives.
Second blasphamy law was made by angreez during brutish rule so people don’t fight each other…
In old times(70/80) people use to get away after saying lots of stuff.. Now in general country has lost its nerve (50000+) dead and deteriorating economic/living condition… are menifesting in violence. Got to keep every thing in mind… be coming to conclusions.
If you un-dead 50000+ people and make economic condition as they were in 90s 80s and before … pakistan is not such a bad place to live.
