What do the hadith say? What has Islamic history done? How is it all contextualised? We cannot ignore the scriptures.
yes sunnah of the prophet (pbuh), his hadith are important.
here is the hadith you quoted
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Jabir ibn `Abdullah narrated that a Bedouin pledged allegiance to Muhammad for Islam (i.e. accepted Islam) and then the Bedouin got fever whereupon he said to Muhammad "cancel my pledge." But Muhammad refused. He (the Bedouin) came to him (again) saying, "Cancel my pledge." But Muhammad refused. Then he (the Bedouin) left (Medina). Muhammad said, "Madinah is like a pair of bellows (furnace): it expels its impurities and brightens and clear its good."
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According to the hadith,
1) the apostate didn't fear asking to the prophet (pbuh) about the pledge.why? He could have secretly flee.
2) Although prophet(pbuh) showed his displeasure through silence but he didn't force him in any way and let him go
3) Further, the Holy Prophet appears to have been pleased that the man had departed from Medina. The observation that the Holy Prophet made is an indication that the Holy Prophet considered the man 's departure from Medina a good riddance, as his continued presence in Medina would not have been desirable.
Huddaibiyya Treaty:
Bokhari has related, on the authority of Braa bin Aazib, that in the treaty of Hudaibiyyah, the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, agreed with the pagans of Mecca that if anyone of them became a Muslim and came to Medina, he would be returned to the Meccans, but that if a Muslim departed from Medina and joined the Meccans, they would not be under obligation to return him to the Holy Prophet (Bokhari, Egyptians edition, Vol. II, p. 76).
Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshiped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
So bloody what if the bible says so..... are we questioning the bible in this thread? Do we follow or copy the bible? if bible is wrong and acts like a gangster religion should we do the same?
Do not deflect the question and Stick to the topic...
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Desiring another human to be killed even for valid reasons is unIslamic. All Muslims need to ignore things like blasphemy and apostasy claims, stay away from people who do this, unless and/or until the person doing it is "in your face" ... In which case they arrest the person and take them to court. If the person recants or denies the allegations he/she is set free, because the idea is that the person needs to declare their faith openly and persists and insists in sewing discord to for the case to be taken further.
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Your views are so fanatical I am glad most Muslims on this forum do not agree with you. I would fear for the people if you were King.
yes sunnah of the prophet (pbuh), his hadith are important.
here is the hadith you quoted
According to the hadith,
1) the apostate didn't fear asking to the prophet (pbuh) about the pledge.why? He could have secretly flee.
2) Although prophet(pbuh) showed his displeasure through silence but he didn't force him in any way and let him go
3) Further, the Holy Prophet appears to have been pleased that the man had departed from Medina. The observation that the Holy Prophet made is an indication that the Holy Prophet considered the man 's departure from Medina a good riddance, as his continued presence in Medina would not have been desirable.
Huddaibiyya Treaty:
Bokhari has related, on the authority of Braa bin Aazib, that in the treaty of Hudaibiyyah, the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, agreed with the pagans of Mecca that if anyone of them became a Muslim and came to Medina, he would be returned to the Meccans, but that if a Muslim departed from Medina and joined the Meccans, they would not be under obligation to return him to the Holy Prophet (Bokhari, Egyptians edition, Vol. II, p. 76).
So say a man born to Muslims decides that Islam is not the true path, he goes to his place of work and explains why Mohammed is not a true prophet. Now there are many many Muslims around the world who find that blaspemous and would want to punish the man, imprison him and execute him, is that Islamic???
Peace sanjsingh,
If that man born to Muslims decides not be Muslim any more than that is his choice but going to at work place and explaining why Islam and/or Prophets are not true for me is like a sign of foe. Why don't he just say that my mind doesn't accept it so i'm no longer Muslim rather than saying negative things or something which triggers the Muslims.
^ Does there have to be a conspiracy involved in everything?
Peace sanjsingh
This is your agenda on this forum ... Become a Muslim and then preach what Islam should be ... By their posts ye shall know them ...
Similarly, you can be told to become a scientist first and then preach what evolution should mean. Has your lack of formal credentials stopped you from confidently asserting your opinions on complex modular biological networks? Yay for freedom of expression. Why begrudge Sanjsingh's curiosity? Many Muslims around the world raise the same concerns ; they don't understand what is being said and done in their name. These topics are rigorously debated by Muslim academics, lawyers, and theologians. Contrary to popular misconception, Islamic history testifies to a tradition of debate and disagreement. Everyone has a right to ask questions, no matter how uncomfortable they make you feel. You may want to present the ummah as a unified monolith of homogeneous ideas, but please note that many Muslims on this forum alone do not subscribe to your school of thought. Acknowledging this diversity of opinion may help alleviate your paranoia. If Sanjsingh has an "agenda," I must be a CIA-Mossad-RAW agent. I also have an Uncle Sam tattoo on my arm. I do.
If that man born to Muslims decides not be Muslim any more than that is his choice but going to at work place and explaining why Islam and/or Prophets are not true for me is like a sign of foe. Why don't he just say that my mind doesn't accept it so i'm no longer Muslim rather than saying negative things or something which triggers the Muslims
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Indeed good manners and politeness should always be maintained. But why are his actions that of a foe? He is simply saying he doesn't recognize Islam to be the only true religion and is only explaining his new religion to others in an attempt to show an alternative path to God. That is what Muslim preachers around the world do when they teach their own religion. Almost ninety nine percent of the time these preachers will say all other religions are totally wrong and only their path is the correct one, is that not blasphemous to other religions but is acceptable practice for Muslims. However when the same is done to Muslims and Islam, why is such an act considered treason and anti-Islamic?
I hope you understand the nature of my point and do not take any offence in the matter
Thanks for the support Chaibiskut, many people will asume a non-Muslim asking such questions must have ugly motives, this sort of thought often leads to segregation of peoples and fall right into the hands of those who wish no dialogue whether inter faith or within Islam at all, as they just want their skewed views and the staus quo to be maintained.
No offence taken so chill phill btw I see a huge difference in ur this post and in the post quoted by me earlier. A person is free to choose whatever he or she likes. Similarly, he or she can leave whatever he or she dislikes even if he or she wanna give reasons/explanations to others why he or she left/disliked, that if fine too but saying, that particular thing is wrong or bad, in my view like a foe. If a person say “that” i dislike b’coz my mind doesn’t accept it that is fine and another person can easily understand but if the same person say i disliked b’coz that is wrong or bad than the another person will take it as a serious matter.
I wonder why non-Muslim don’t comes to common grounds i mean start with their own belief and than come to those things which are common in our religion. Why don’t Sanjsing! u start this way?
:) you very shrewdly shrugged off the question I asked . As to your question. I am not implying anything and being a muslim am upto bringing to light the REAL teachings of Islam in this regard. I will try and learn as well.
There are many scholars or I would not be wrong to say that majority of them are of the view that Apostate must be killed. Some say if he 'propogates' his new religion then the sentence apply. some say that he should be apprehended to recant or if he doesn't, he must be given capital punishment. now tell me who will stand ground in the face of death. only the one who has strength of character and firmness of his beliefs and these guys will punish him for showing integrity. does that ring the bell for you and remind the approach adopted by kuffar during initial days of Islam. Bilal(ra) was severly punished while he kept uttering 'Ahad' 'Ahad'. Islam is light and its torch bearers must not behave as if they are torch bearers of darkness.
In my view, punishment applies if anyone tries to sabotage the peace of the society one way or the other. This person could be an apostate, a blasphemer, a muslim, non-muslim etc.
Punishment applies if one pledges alegience to a state and then does treason against it. In religion, a person doing the same is called a munafiq and is not brought under punishment by default. so you guys must understand that deen-e-Islam should not be treated as a state.
Punishment may or may not apply (as situation suggests) for a person who changes sides openly. In religion a person doing the same is an apostate and is not given punishment by default.
I am searching for common ground LK but from another angle. It is good to see that Muslims like you are tolerant of such matters but the fact does remain that the majority of Islamic countries have laws which do not allow freedom of religion and they do this because of their interpretation of Islam.
btw I see a huge difference in ur this post and in the post quoted by me earlier. A person is free to choose whatever he or she likes. Similarly, he or she can leave whatever he or she dislikes even if he or she wanna give reasons/explanations to others why he or she left/disliked, that if fine too but saying, that particular thing is wrong or bad, in my view like a foe. If a person say “that” i dislike b’coz my mind doesn’t accept it that is fine and another person can easily understand but if the same person say i disliked b’coz that is wrong or bad than the another person will take it as a serious matter.