Re: Has the West ruined families?
Divorce is increasingly common here, but there are numerous reasons for that. The "West" isn't one, because divorce rates are high in the East as well now.
East follows West.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
Hahaha...
Ordinarily I'd stay away from Anil Khan's thought-provoking threads, but this spectacular comment roped me in.
Anyway, to get back to the main topic, I think I agree with the general premise of the discussion (not the topic of the thread) that there are major differences in the cultures of Pakistan and Canada (or US or any other Western country) and too often these cultural differences can pull families in unanticipated directions. We can all speculate how they may have reacted had they stayed in Pakistan, but after all is said and done, its just that; speculation. I do agree with those that said that certain people may just be better off living in their homelands, rather than struggling in the West. I have met people here who have spent years here but made no attempt to appreciate the culture here, had not integrated at all, have this romanticized notion of what they left behind and openly show their disgust at everything they see around them. Kinda makes you itch to ask them "why don't you just go back, rather than suffering through this 'bad crappy' western country?"
I guess each to his own. I am sure in many cases we are unable to comprehend the myriad reasons for people to do what they do; and mostly we make no real attempt to even invest our time to understand it all. All of us have enough problems of our own, anyway.
Faisal bhai I have been here almost 10 years and still I critisize every time and everything here. It doesn't mean I have to go back to my country. What is wrong is wrong and we have to say wrong. Every country has good and bad things. We have brains to understand right and wrong and toungue to say its wrong no matter where we are living.
But one thing we all know these countries are more or most crapy than our own country. As they say its a free country and here we got freedom of speech to we can complain what we think are wrong.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
I know this one family whose eldest son got admission to Aga Khan Medical College in Karachi but the family thought it was better for them as a whole to move to the states; well, what happend is that the father become very westernized in his thinking and told all his kids to go out looking for jobs; he started calling his wife "maaci" (the cleaning ladies in karachi); and basically the whole family became a mess.
I am rather amazed at how some people screw up quite late. I also know a person who has grown up working kids. And then he started dating a desi women who too happened to be married and whole family was torn apart.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
A broken home has tell tale signs. Dont blame the west for pointing them out.
A strong home will never break. If your marriage sucks, you have only yourself and your significant other to blame.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
^ I disagree with the above comment.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
You need a reality check. Mr Null Khan. If the environment is hurting your home, then your old sticks werent strong enough. You need stronger sticks.
The reality is most marriages in the west fall apart because there is no pressure to stay together. It's a good thing.
If your husband runs off to the farm in Pakistan, abandoning his 2 daughters, 1 son and wife - her brother will give her money to survive. Her mother will tell her to stick it through. If the husband does the same in the west, the wife is free to ditch his ass.
Seems like the East has ruined your brain. Chomp chomp.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
You need a reality check. Mr Null Khan. If the environment is hurting your home, then your old sticks werent strong enough. You need stronger sticks.
The reality is most marriages in the west fall apart because there is no pressure to stay together. It's a good thing.
If your husband runs off to the farm in Pakistan, abandoning his 2 daughters, 1 son and wife - her brother will give her money to survive. Her mother will tell her to stick it through. If the husband does the same in the west, the wife is free to ditch his ass.
Seems like the East has ruined your brain. Chomp chomp.
Maybe I was a little harsh in my previous post; no offense intended.
I'd still disagree though; the west can be sort of 'fools gold' for people back home; it seems like the migration will end all trouble but in reality it creates new ones. Sure the west provides people with the opportunity to make money but sometimes it occurs at the cost of losing 'closeness' with the family.
I'll edit out the above :).
oh and its Aneel Khan.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
Faisal bhai I have been here almost 10 years and still I critisize every time and everything here. It doesn't mean I have to go back to my country. What is wrong is wrong and we have to say wrong. Every country has good and bad things. We have brains to understand right and wrong and toungue to say its wrong no matter where we are living.
But one thing we all know these countries are more or most crapy than our own country. As they say its a free country and here we got freedom of speech to we can complain what we think are wrong.
Your second point is merely a subjective opinion, so I'll not waste my time or your time arguing about that. Regarding your first point that I highlighted, no one is saying that we should not criticize something that we find distasteful here; however, if all you do is whine and criticize "every time and everything here"; and find nothing here to appreciate then the natural question is what is holding you back here?
Every place has good and bad. As long as the good out weighs the bad, its an acceptable place to live. If the bad outweighs the good, then thats time to pack up and leave. Generally its a free world.
Even if you came here just for higher studies then either you consider it a good for this country (so you may want to appreciate it) or someone may have sent you here with a gun pointed to your head. There are many students I know who study here in the United States and hate pretty much everything here, and their plan is to graduate and immediately move back. While I do find their stance a tad bit hypocritical I can understand their view point. However, for those who actually decided to live here, get a job and raise their families here, to be constantly whining about how bad the country is, with no balance about things they appreciate here, it just makes a lousy case of why you are stuck here. May be I am missing something in this whole argument. Feel free to expand.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
You need a reality check. Mr Null Khan. If the environment is hurting your home, then your old sticks werent strong enough. You need stronger sticks.
The reality is most marriages in the west fall apart because there is no pressure to stay together. It's a good thing.
If your husband runs off to the farm in Pakistan, abandoning his 2 daughters, 1 son and wife - her brother will give her money to survive. Her mother will tell her to stick it through. If the husband does the same in the west, the wife is free to ditch his ass.
Seems like the East has ruined your brain. Chomp chomp.
This is only half truth.
The environment one lives in does affect people's behavior, the notion of not being strong enough is bullchit. Why then not to make addictive drugs legal? those strong enough will not abuse them but rest will screw up and screw a lot of people around them.
When deterioations in family values become acceptable norm in society, families fall apart.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
*You are right I have been sent here not at gun point but by requesting and haath jor'ing. At first place I didn't want to come here. I Love my country no matter all the corruption and everthing what I consider atleast its a muslim country. The Teach islam in schools. *
Yes my soul is beqarar to go to Pakistan but as a female we have to do what every parents or husband say us to do.
If by living here we will lose our religion our kids then why would we prefer to live here.
Gradually and unnoticeably we are loosing our religion. Thats a worst thing for a muslim.
Lets see what I found that might be not big for you but for me are big things.
Watching tv adds about sex and kissing and everything.
Walking roadside many places have screens installed same thing sex, nudity and everything.
Bus stop posters full of nudity.
Train or bus posters nudity, sex etc etc.
Mall or shop risalas full of nudity.
I never ever seen any nude poster or risala in my whole life in pakistan. Not even in tv.
You can't stop these things. Cant stay away.
If you thing this country is better than you are so wrong. It means your religion has gone from you or you forgot about your religion or become the person who can't differeciant what wrong is going around you.
If you think education is better if we are not getting religious education then how could be those junglies education be better or life.
They are faar more jungli then our own countries un educated ppl.
They are so corrupt in each and every way of life.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
You need a reality check. Mr Null Khan. If the environment is hurting your home, then your old sticks werent strong enough. You need stronger sticks.
The reality is most marriages in the west fall apart because there is no pressure to stay together. It's a good thing.
If your husband runs off to the farm in Pakistan, abandoning his 2 daughters, 1 son and wife - her brother will give her money to survive. Her mother will tell her to stick it through. If the husband does the same in the west, the wife is free to ditch his ass.
Seems like the East has ruined your brain. Chomp chomp.
Except last line I agree with you. In some cases it happens too.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
HSKhan...you seem to singing hosannas to the western lifestyle......it is immoral, promiscous and materialistic..the negatives...positives...good standard of living.
Even in Eastern society Man and Woman are supposed to be of equal status but practice stopped millennia ago.
Marriage in Eastern society not only brings two souls together but the relation extends much beyond the families....We have so many festivals...they have been serving the purpose of meeting and greeting.....Do people in the western world know or even attempt to know their relatives beyond their immediate family members?
Do post your experience in this forum of spending your twilight years in an oldage home...of course a health worker will take care of you while you gradually rot there.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
^ very true and realistic point of view ...by halla Gulla...infact Mr. Fraudia is also very well said that both have pluses and minus..but if we think ....East has more pluses than west and west has more minuses than east....thatsway i think so..anybody can disagree with me.....
Re: Has the West ruined families?
One thing for sure. The west is responsible for making women wear less and less clothes with time. If you watch the early black and white films, or pictures of early 1900's you would find almost all women in clothes which completely covers the body, like long frocks, with sleeves and also a hat in alot of cases. But with time the clothes started become less and less, and unfortunately alot of people thought that these less clothes, exposing of legs, wearing very tight clothes , giving idea of their assets are part of freedom of a woman. Thus presenting women as a sexual object in alot of places.
The removal of "Haya" seems to be practiced now almost in every part of the world, but the Western life style did take the initiative in doing this openly, specially through media
Re: Has the West ruined families?
^ very true and realistic point of view ...by halla Gulla...infact Mr. Fraudia is also very well said that both have pluses and minus..but if we think ....East has more pluses than west and west has more minuses than east....thatsway i think so..anybody can disagree with me.....
I don't disagree with you.
Western society has converted a woman into an object of sex or a consumable and even in Eastern society people are gradually adopting that mindset. We must understand that nature or GOD has imposed a limit on us as to how much we can consume...try consuming more than three meals a day...you will fall sick. But God also gifted us with a smart mental faculty which we have used more for materialistic pursuits and hoarding of wealth instead of improving the lot of the society..and those who do become philanthropists do so because they would like to be remembered as 'generous' people. Little do people realise that it is the consumption bottleneck vs the massive wealth which has been hoarded compels people to become 'philathropists'. Philanthropic mindset has nothing to do with the age of a person...a kid can also be philanthropic.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
The removal of "Haya" seems to be practiced now almost in every part of the world, but the Western life style did take the initiative in doing this openly, specially through media
yes very true..... i have read in a book...i cannot say it with proof as i am never been to states or europe...but i have read and also see on TV the jews having long beards ...waring hats and and black coats ....and thier women still cover thier heads... but christians cross every limits...while you see behind all media..all film industry...the money-makers are jewish(no hate but i am telling the reality).......they use woman as a most powerful weapon .....not in the media ....films.....but also there are large no. of very beautiful women of Israel in MOSAD which are given very difficult tasks like to kill some important personality or disclose some secrets...in 60 yeas...there are large no. of cases when these women completed thier task successfully as we already know the nature of some arabs towards "women" !!!!!! aurat bator hatiar ...thier motto..... remebering me of the hadees of bukhari that...
pophet(peace be upon him) said " I am not leaving behind for you any fitna greater than a woman """"
and the same thing is happening now....
Re: Has the West ruined families?
very true.....they want money..from fashion shows...from TV adds...from media...from films...from journals....everyne is woman..everywhere is woman.....
Islam gives her the staus higher than any culture and religion... yes they have given her ome riights...but she lost much more for what she got....much more...her pride..her dignity...her self-respect...her honour..... shattering family institution .....statistics shows that out of every 10 girls of 18age ...7 are disgraced sexually and most of the times by thier own brothers and fathers..... no see thier own relatives ..blood relatives....what they see all time on TV and outside...how they control themselves inside thier house ...no mater who is she !!!!!!
Re: Has the West ruined families?
No doubt..they are more honest..more law- followers...more true than us...no doubt about that....but on the morally side..they are worse than us.....but i will not say that nothing happenedin pakistan or east ...everything also happened here ,though little in magnitude, but not openly...they do bad things..but they do nt hide that...we also do ..but we hide that ...this is hypocricy....
Re: Has the West ruined families?
These families probably already had issues that come out in to the open during the pressures of migration. In general, I think that older people who migrate don't adjust nearly as well as those who come in college and stay. It's difficult for women who are used to servants doing most of the "hard" labor, and it's difficult for men who are used to shorter work hours or a different working environment (20 tea breaks a day is generally frowned upon here). It's tough on both if they are particularly sociable.
If a couple don't get along very well to begin with they may be able to hide that well enough in Pakistan, because they are always surrounded by other people, but in the west they will be constantly in one another's company.
The idea of east vs. west is simply ridiculous, both systems have benefits and major flaws, in equal measure.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
nahi yaar!!! itne bhe gaye guzre nahi hai ye goree!!!
astagfirAllah!!!