Re: Has the West ruined families?
East had all pluses...minuses creeped into it over a period of time...process started 2500 years ago...to be precise.
you are saying that the east was utopia before these minuses started?
from what I have read of history whether you look at china, japan, the sub continent .. there were issues there prior to that time as well.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
I do agree that there are some good and bad aspects of western life. The good aspect of the west which I really like is Curtesy and respect to people in public life, irrespective of their richness, status and rank, which is relatively less practiced in Asian countries like Pak and India.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
Pakistanis are blind paralyzed baboons. The west gives them eyes, feet, and a zap of evolution.
When you're away from your parents, brothers, and sisters - there is no reason you have to deal with crap at home. If your husband's an asshole, kick his ass goodbye. If you love your wife, you dont have pressures from dadi ji to pop out five kiddos. The west gives couples independence. What the west has done, is that it has destroyed sham weddings and strengthened the ones based on love.
is there any need for extremism of words like this?
i think you have a problem in that you dont appreciate the reasons behined pakistani culture. perhaps because you dont even know the culture and thats why your trying to make it sound worse then it is.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
Yes it is true that in terms of good standard of life, Western society is far ahead of Desistans.
But tere bachche, mere bachche, hamaare bachhon ke saath jhagdaa kar rahen hain..yeh baat kuchch hazam nahin hoti.
Khan Saheb please read post #16.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
I do agree that there are some good and bad aspects of western life. The good aspect of the west which I really like is Curtesy and respect to people in public life, irrespective of their richness, status and rank, which is relatively less practiced in Asian countries like Pak and India.
Couldn't agree more, every society has its own positives and negatives.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
It's silly to blame the West; those husband and wife would be estranged in their own countries as well.
Agree.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
^^ not really, we have so many family problems in our country
if women had freedom and opportunity to survive without a need for a husband to provide for them and could easily divorce their husbands then pakistan's divorce rate would be higher than the west
You are so wrong. There are many families living in this free country and living with same problems and don't go for divorce.
Nature of our ladies doen't change no matter where they are living except a few.
Yahan aa kar bhi hamari aurtain yay naheen bhoolteen kay talaaq Allah tala ka intehai na pasandeeda amal hai. Hamari aurton kaisay bhi husband hon unsay bohat pyar karti hai hain aur yay pyar hi hota hai jo husbands ki sitam zareefi bhi sahnay kay bawajood saath nibhati hain.
Aap ki ziadatar batain Islam say doori wali hoteen hain.
Kia aap musalman aur Pakistani hain? Mujhay naheen lugta.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
I dunno; i just feel that some families have been absolutely devestated by the move to the west.
I know this one family whose eldest son got admission to Aga Khan Medical College in Karachi but the family thought it was better for them as a whole to move to the states; well, what happend is that the father become very westernized in his thinking and told all his kids to go out looking for jobs; he started calling his wife "maaci" (the cleaning ladies in karachi); and basically the whole family became a mess.
It seems to me there is a huge culture shock; some families can't handle it and forsake their traditional values for the modern lifestyle.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
Wo husband hi phir sahi naheen. Ussay apni biwi pasand naheen hogi.
Daraasal yay west ka qusoor naheen wo admi khud hi western khiaalaat ko ho ga jo wahan Yani apnay mulk main under dabi huwi hogi jo yahan aa kar mauqa mil gia apni khuwahish poori karnay ki to is tarha kar raha hai.
Is main kuch qusoor to hota hai west ka laikin ziada qusoor apna hota hai yani us mard ka.
Agar ghar main aik fard yani husband ya wife main say kisi aik ka rawwayya aik doosray kay saath sahi na ho yani budtamizi wala to uska poor ghar hi mess bun jata hai. Buchchay bhi wo hi sulook kartay hain jis kay saath budtamizi ho rahi ho.
Is main sara qusoor mard ka hai jo na sirf apni biwi say nafrat karta hai balkay intehai budtameez bhi hai jo biwi ko maci kahta hai (agar mazaq main khata ho to phir theek hai).
Mazaq main bhi kahna naheen chahyay. Is tarha buchchon pay bura asar par'ta hai un bachchon ka apna husband wife kay saath bhi bilkul aisa hi sulook hoga.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
One ruins himself, moving to a certain place wont change anything as long as the person has control on himself and his family.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
I know this one family whose eldest son got admission to Aga Khan Medical College in Karachi but the family thought it was better for them as a whole to move to the states; well, what happend is that the father become very westernized in his thinking and told all his kids to go out looking for jobs; he started calling his wife "maaci" (the cleaning ladies in karachi); and basically the whole family became a mess.
*
First of all, your reasoning that a family has become a complete mess because of certain things that seem wrong according to YOUR own personal standards is just wrong. For example, YOU persoanlly prefer a wife who would stay home because YOU think it would be better for YOU and YOUR kids; you're entitled to that right, however, when you start dictating that EVERY woman do what YOU want YOUR woman to do, then you are, without a doubt, in the wrong. I hope you get my point.
Now this particular family--Is this your own? because if not, then you hae no right or enough information to make a conclusion tha the family is screwed up. There is so much that goes on in side a home that outsiders such as yourself, will never see or hear. You don't know the relationships between the spouses or the parents with their children. Unless the family members themselves feel that they are "ruined," its not your place to say that, if they are happy wiht hhow they all are, have mutual love and respect for one antoher, then who are you to say anything?*
Re: Has the West ruined families?
I know of a family who lived in Karachi, had good money, a house, and a good life overall, until the father had some issues with his company and had to move to states. Today, he's a taxi driver, he hates it and wants to move back to Pakistan with his family but his family DOESNT! Even though, today they live in a ONE bedroom apartment, with one kitchen, and one bathroom. They are 3 kids, two of them all grown. Imagine that. His children, even hid their papers, so his dad wont make the family move back. Poor man:(
Re: Has the West ruined families?
I know this one family whose eldest son got admission to Aga Khan Medical College in Karachi but the family thought it was better for them as a whole to move to the states; well, what happend is that the father become very westernized in his thinking and told all his kids to go out looking for jobs; he started calling his wife "maaci" (the cleaning ladies in karachi); and basically the whole family became a mess.
First of all, your reasoning that a family has become a complete mess because of certain things that seem wrong according to YOUR own personal standards is just wrong. For example, YOU persoanlly prefer a wife who would stay home because YOU think it would be better for YOU and YOUR kids; you're entitled to that right, however, when you start dictating that EVERY woman do what YOU want YOUR woman to do, then you are, without a doubt, in the wrong. I hope you get my point.
Now this particular family--Is this your own? because if not, then you hae no right or enough information to make a conclusion tha the family is screwed up. There is so much that goes on in side a home that outsiders such as yourself, will never see or hear. You don't know the relationships between the spouses or the parents with their children. Unless the family members themselves feel that they are "ruined," its not your place to say that, if they are happy wiht hhow they all are, have mutual love and respect for one antoher, then who are you to say anything?
Firstly, my condolonces to your husband and his family for the loss of his father; may Allah (swt) grant him janat-al-firdaus.
Secondly, it seems like you're taking out some frustrations on exchanges we've had in the past. Koi masla naheen; you can provoke me all you like, I'm not biting.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
*^ My apologies if my post exudes frustration, I have no intention or interest to provoke or bite or get into an argument or whtaever.
Now refer to my actual post instead of the phantom "frustration" :)
*
Re: Has the West ruined families?
^ My apologies if my post exudes frustration, I have no intention or interest to provoke or bite or get into an argument or whtaever.
Now refer to my actual post instead of the phantom "frustration" :)
K; well, it is not my family (alhumdullilah); family is a close friend of ours and they say themselves that they should've never left Pakistan.
And if the leader of the family says to his wife that you are a 'kaam wali maaci"; it seems that the family is messed up. May Allah grant his blessings on this family and all other families that are struggling here in the west or back home in Pak land.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
And if the leader of the family says to his wife that you are a 'kaam wali maaci"; it seems that the family is messed up.
Hahaha...
Ordinarily I'd stay away from Anil Khan's thought-provoking threads, but this spectacular comment roped me in.
Anyway, to get back to the main topic, I think I agree with the general premise of the discussion (not the topic of the thread) that there are major differences in the cultures of Pakistan and Canada (or US or any other Western country) and too often these cultural differences can pull families in unanticipated directions. We can all speculate how they may have reacted had they stayed in Pakistan, but after all is said and done, its just that; speculation. I do agree with those that said that certain people may just be better off living in their homelands, rather than struggling in the West. I have met people here who have spent years here but made no attempt to appreciate the culture here, had not integrated at all, have this romanticized notion of what they left behind and openly show their disgust at everything they see around them. Kinda makes you itch to ask them "why don't you just go back, rather than suffering through this 'bad crappy' western country?"
I guess each to his own. I am sure in many cases we are unable to comprehend the myriad reasons for people to do what they do; and mostly we make no real attempt to even invest our time to understand it all. All of us have enough problems of our own, anyway.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
^ are my threads really thought provoking or are you being sarcastic?
Re: Has the West ruined families?
yep west isnt for every one. neither is east. so every one is free to make a choice
Re: Has the West ruined families?
It seems like a lot of families who have come over from Pakistan find the lifestyle of the west really difficult and as a result there is increased distance between the family members; especially husband and wife. I know of a handful of families who have suffered because of the migration to the west.
So do y'all agree that the wild west isn't for everyone?
Because the US social life is very migratory, yeah, family members do lose touch. But we're talking about like you losing touch with your chacha-zad-behn.
Increased distance between husband and wife? I wouldn't say that.
Divorce is increasingly common here, but there are numerous reasons for that. The "West" isn't one, because divorce rates are high in the East as well now.
Re: Has the West ruined families?
One ruins himself, moving to a certain place wont change anything as long as the person has control on himself and his family.
Well said.