Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Society Religion & Philosophy
121

I think what he means is that just like the ka'aba remained since Abraham and the Tawaf and the safa and marwa, the pagans also had the prayer ritual. This is the view of some of the Quranist. There are also Quranist who say the rituals came to us from common practice passed down and not from oral hadith with a few people and therefore they trust them more. Imam Shafi even said that the 5 prayer ritual and haj were common to the public and everybody knew them and never questioned them. So there rituals like Jum'a prayer and eid prayer and tawaf and stoning the devil in haj and the salat perfromance are all passed down from common practice and there is no hadith that teaches us that so some Quranist follow that. But many Quranist believe this is against the Quranic injunction since the Quran says:

The only salat mentioned by name is Fajr and Isha and the other salat mentioned is salat al-wusta.

24.58 O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence),** on three occasions: before morning prayer(Salat fajr);** the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer(Salat Isha): these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

"You shall consistently observe the salat, especially the MIDDLE PRAYER(Salat Al-Wusta), and devote yourselves totally to God." (2:238).

The only place in the Quran the timimgs of the salat is talked about is in two verses 17.78 and 11.114.

"You shall observe the salat prayer when the sun goes down until the darkness of the night. You shall also observe the Quran at dawn. Reading the Quran at dawn is witnessed." (17:78).

"You shall observe the salat prayers at both ends of the daylight, and during the adjacent hours of the night. . . " (11:114)

These are the verses that types of prayers are actually mentioned by name. And these are the verses where the timings of the salat is mentioned. there are no other verses in the Quran other than the ones above.

The only timings or numbers of salat mentioned in the Torah or Gospel is found in the Torah with Daniel and David

Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before, (Daniel 6:10)

16 **As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me. **
17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud:
and he shall hear my voice. (Psalm of David 55)

Thats all there is in the Quran and previous scriptures and none of them has a specific way to pray

**Some Quranist who pray the Sunni way but have a problem with tashahud, they believe this practice was passed down in its current form from Abraham and Ishamel, while other simply pray according to their interpretation of the Quran and pray two or three and believe as long as you stand or prostrate and bow or kneel then you are praying, they believe in no way specific ritual for praying. Other simply pray like Sunnis do since they follow the practiced Sunnah . **

Nowhere in the Quran is the "5 salat" ever mentioned.

I hope this answered your question.

122

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

The bone of contention is this that you people say that everything is there in Quran and that we don't need any sunna and hadith for Quranic explanation??

Then tell us in the light of Quran that how many prayers are there????? How to Pray every salat????? How to fast?????? how to do hajj????????????

Offcourse I know that MUNKERIN_E_HADIS is another fitna. You just want to put a rift in Islam and nothing else. If you remove the Prophet(PBUH) from Islam the you are no more than Christians OR jews......

123

"You shall observe the salat prayer when the sun goes down until the darkness of the night. You shall also observe the Quran at dawn. Reading the Quran at dawn is witnessed." (17:78).

But at what time and how??????

"You shall observe the salat prayers at both ends of the daylight, and during the adjacent hours of the night. . . " (11:114)

At what time and how????????????

WELCOME BACK TO DEVIL (BABYGS)
124

You method of praying salat in your hadiths and sunnah has constant recitations of the QUran. In case you forgot, Muhammad was the last prophet and it was the Quran he was given. Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Joseph, Zacariah, etc. DID NOT HAVE THE QURAN!! So tell me....what Sura's was Jesus reciting in his Salat prayer? What about Abraham?

In addition, the Third revelation (sura 73), verse 20 says to 'observe the contact prayers, and zakat. However, Sura Fateha was the 5th revelation, majority of the Suras being recited according to your weblink were later revelations? Therefore, it is CHRONOLOGICALLY impossible for the salat to have been performed according to your hadiths & Sunnah.

Although, I'm sure you will have a counter argument for this. Although, I do not know how you can counter chronology. Abraham, Jesus, Moses etc. simply did not have the Quran to recite in their salat prayer.

Peace
submitmj

125

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Bigmo
there are an enormous amount of hadith literature that deals with minute details of salah.Some of which is already posted.
By your own admission Quran mentions only importance of salah and cursory details about prayer timings and basic postures.Details are not there ...
if you have an alternate source of details plz share with us otherwise atleast accept that without hadith there are huge gaps in our knowledge of salah.
References from other scriptures can hardly be used as evidence to the contrary as they as just as suspect to human error as allegedly hadith is

Sing a Song according 2 Ur Mood !!!!!
126

You are not answering my questions. Rather you are going to divert the talk to some other side. Why don't you accept frankly that you have no answer.....

I am repeating again:

How to pray according to quran????because in Quran it is given several times: WA AQIMUSSALATHA WA ATUZZAKATHA, WARKAOO MAÁRRAKEËN.

127

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

[QUOTE]

You method of praying salat in your hadiths and sunnah has constant recitations of the QUran. In case you forgot, Muhammad was the last prophet and it was the Quran he was given. Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Joseph, Zacariah, etc. DID NOT HAVE THE QURAN!! So tell me....what Sura's was Jesus reciting in his Salat prayer? What about Abraham?

In addition, the Third revelation (sura 73), verse 20 says to 'observe the contact prayers, and zakat. However, Sura Fateha was the 5th revelation, majority of the Suras being recited according to your weblink were later revelations? Therefore, it is CHRONOLOGICALLY impossible for the salat to have been performed according to your hadiths & Sunnah.

Although, I'm sure you will have a counter argument for this. Although, I do not know how you can counter chronology. Abraham, Jesus, Moses etc. simply did not have the Quran to recite in their salat prayer.

[/QUOTE]

Other Prophets were given revelations which they recieted that was as good as Quran IN THEIR TIMES, after few yrs they became corrupted and were no longer valid for use in prayers.
When ISlam first came many of the former muslims were hanifs or followers of a monotheistic faith similar to abrahamic faith, they performed their prayers according to the traditions passed on to them.Yes it was not Quran thet they recieted but that logic cant be used now as at that time the FINAL REVELATION was not sent down, faith was NOT COMPLETED.
Similarly early muslims drank wine , many warriors of Badr drank to their victory afterwards as wine was not prohibited at that time.
Early muslims practiced Mutah or temporary mariage as it was not forbidden yet
and the prayed to jerusalam instead of Makkah

so now should we all turn back to those times ? No muslim can justify doing all these things as they were back in those days of early islam as the faith was not completed.

128

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

[QUOTE]

You method of praying salat in your hadiths and sunnah has constant recitations of the QUran. In case you forgot, Muhammad was the last prophet and it was the Quran he was given. Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Joseph, Zacariah, etc. DID NOT HAVE THE QURAN!! So tell me....what Sura's was Jesus reciting in his Salat prayer? What about Abraham?

[/QUOTE]

can u plz post how YOU pray

and give me EVIDENCE why you do that and your source for that

Timepass - September 2013
129

Why is it that you never hear a Christian ever asking the question “how do we pray”? How do hundreds of millions pray? Why is it that you think there should be a reason how to pray? Just pray man, get over it. Or pray like Sunnis do. Its similar to how Jews pray anyways:

130

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

My question will eventually lead to your answer......... Don't tell me what and how Jews are praying? I am asking you what Quran says how to pray???? Because Quran says and urge strongly to pray but how???????????

131

The Quran says to be respectful for your parents. How do you that? It also says to leave a will. How do you that? It also says to praise God and fear him. How do you that. It says to spend on the poor and on freeing the slaves and on the relatives. How do you that? The Quran says we must ask for forgiveness. How do we do that? The Quran says we must fulfill our obligations. How do we do that? The Quran says we should recite the Quran. How do we do that? It says we can eat food. How do we do that? It says we can even drink water and milk. How do we that? In fact it says we can also sleep. How do we do that? It says we should think of of God and His creation of the universe. How do we do that?

You ask strange questions. All you want to say is we can not know "how to pray" from the Quran therefore the Quran is insufficient.

Then tell me this. Where in the Quran it says we need to know how to pray?

Sher ik vaari fer
132

Very illogical questions put by you....... When Quran stresses on many places that PRAY AND GIVE ZAKAT, then how you are telling that it doesn't say we don't need to know how to pray?

AlhamduLillah I strongly believe in Quran. I don't think that is insufficient. My point is to understand Quran, we need Hadees and Sunna. Without that you will not understand Quran and fulfil Quranic commandments.

WAATIULLAH WA ATIURRASUL. Why Allah didn't say AtiuLLah only. Why and Rasool? Because Rasool words are also the supplements of Quran. He never said anything contrary to Quran.

133

What a cop out! You know full well from Quran that all religious duties came via Abraham and all messengers confirm previous messengers. Muhammad was enjoined to follow the religion of Abraham. Thus, perform salat the way Abraham did (Jesus, Moses etc.).

I guess you think GOD is lying in the Quran, and prefer the words of men over GOD's.

peace
submitmj

134

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

[mod]Please discuss the matters without making allegation or remarks that maybe seen as inflammatory or hurtful of others' beliefs. Any posts containing such material will be removed, and user issued infraction. Thank you.[/mod]

135

I dont know how abraham performed salah show me , thats exactly what i am asking you

Lafz ba Lafz- Poetry game
136

Well, the only way you will accept which is the correct way of performing salat, zakat, hajj, fasting is if you sincerely want to know the truth and believe GOD. You need to verify the math miracle of the QUran and accept GOD’s assertions in Quran 74:31 that ‘19’ will confirm the Quran is of Divine origin which is why it is called 'One of the great miracles (Quran 74:35). The moment you realize the truth that the math miracle is true and ‘confirms’ the Quran and, by default, all previous scriptures (as they are mentioned in Quran), you will accept that whomever is blessed with ‘confirming’ the Quran is the messenger GOD speaks of in 3:81 that will purify the religion of Islam. Remember, the people of the scripture did not dispute until AFTER THE PROOF of the Quran came to them (Quran 98:1-4).

http://vimeo.com/4541598

Here isanother irrefutable proof of Quran

Peace
submitmj

137

I want to know this.

Why would someone like me need to know "how to pray"? What makes you think when the Quran says to kneel and bow and prostrate that the person would still not know how to pray?

The problem is that those of us who come from a Sunni or Shia background we are so used to a ritualistic and codified form of prayer that we really do believe how many raka's, and how we hold our hand, and how we move our body movements is the only way to pray. Its embeded in our minds. and we can not imagine any other way of praying. Many Muslims do not even pay attention when they pray because its routine for them. They say the same things over and over again. Many of them learn and practice this even before they reach puberty. WE then start to believe thats the only way to pray and there is no other way to pray. We ASSUME that we need to pray at certain times, in a specific set of way and then we assume thats the only way to pray.

Tell me what makes you think that unless you raise your hands and do takbeer, and then recite the faitiha and then at least three verses and then bow and say three times subhana Allah, and then raise your head again and then go to sujood and say 3 times subhana Allah and then lift your head, and then do sujood again and then say subhana Allah 3 times and then go up again and repeat the process but next time after sujood you must make tashahud to Abraham and the prophet of the Quran then you can never have your prayer accepted and you can never have any spiritual connection with God?

Why should God care about thats its two raka'a in the morning, 4 in the noon, 4 in the asr and 3 in the maghrib and 4 in the evening? Tell me why should it be like this when the sects themselves say the prophet and his followers prayed twice a day in Mecca? Did God accept their prayers then or not? Tell me when you around in the Ka'aba 7 times, does God accepts that or not? Tell me when you go to a funeral and your pray standing up and you don't do sujood or even bow, does God accept that? When you throw some rocks at some stone statue in haj, does God accept that? When you go back and forth from one place and another 7 times, does God accept that?

What makes you think there is a way to pray and why did not God tell us in the Quran that there is a way to pray and its the only way to pray?

Tell me why does someone like me need to know how to pray? If I left the Quran with someone in an isolated Island and the Quran is all he knows, do you think he would ask us after 10 years I couldn't pray because nobody showed me how to pray?

What makes you think that how the sects pray is the only acceptable way to pray?

Or let me ask it another way:

Where do you think the sects got their way to pray from? The 5 daily prayers, the rika'as for every prayer and their timings during the day and when to say it silent and when to say it out loud. Where do you think they got this notion from?

Wht r u doing ?
138

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

[QUOTE]
If I left the Quran with someone in an isolated Island and the Quran is all he knows, do you think he would ask us after 10 years I couldn't pray because nobody showed me how to pray?
[/QUOTE]

thats the whole point, God did not send the QUran alone otherwise it was not above him to have the Quran miraculiously appear in Kabba ( which was the holy house of pagan arabs)
Quran needed to be uttered through the tongue of an unlettered arab i.e Muhammad and reinflorced through his example

Wht r u doing ?
139

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

[QUOTE]

The moment you realize the truth that the math miracle is true and 'confirms' the Quran and, by default, all previous scriptures (as they are mentioned in Quran),

[/QUOTE]

so now we need to know math to confirm Quran , how many bedouins knew it who were converted by Prophet ?

all previous scriptures ? i thought our belief is that they are corrupted

Wht r u doing ?
140

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

[QUOTE]

The problem is that those of us who come from a Sunni or Shia background we are so used to a ritualistic and codified form of prayer that we really do believe how many raka's, and how we hold our hand, and how we move our body movements is the only way to pray. Its embeded in our minds. and we can not imagine any other way of praying. Many Muslims do not even pay attention when they pray because its routine for them. They say the same things over and over again. Many of them learn and practice this even before they reach puberty. WE then start to believe thats the only way to pray and there is no other way to pray. We ASSUME that we need to pray at certain times, in a specific set of way and then we assume thats the only way to pray.

[/QUOTE]

so what is your counter argument ?

that there is no need to pray in any specific way ?

Did the Prophet Muhammad do that ? or is his example meaningless
What is your PRECEDENT for your approach ? which muslim has said before you that we dont need any specific way or time to pray

Wht r u doing ?