Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Society Religion & Philosophy
181

Dear submitmj, in the absence of hadees, how would you prove that Prophet of Islam really is the last prophet?

182

Wrong! Hadith is not from GOD or Muhammad because he was dead. Since you believe all hadiths are absolute truth over the Quran, here are some hadiths for you. Lets see if you believe these.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/gsmedia/thumbs/78989/Had_one.gif

English Translation:
The Prophet said, “DO NOT write down anything from me EXCEPT QURAN”
*[Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171, and Sahih Muslim]

*http://www.paklinks.com/gs/gsmedia/thumbs/78989/Had_two.gif

English Translation:
This Hadith states that the Prophet MAINTAINED his ANTI-hadith stand until death.
*Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 192]

*peace
submitmj

183

It can be proven very easily.

1) The Quran states it very clearly in Sura 33, verse 40.33:40] Muhammad was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of GOD and the final prophet. GOD is fully aware of all things.
The arabic is very clear, 'rasoolallah wa Khaatimun Nabiyeen' (messenger and final prophet).

Rasool = messenger
Allah = GOD
wa = and
Khaatimun = final
Nabiyeen = prophet

2) The math miracle of 19 as decreed in Sura 74:30-35 proves every single sura, verse, word and letter is the unaltered word of GOD. So, when you know for certain the Quran is the complete and fully detailed Word of GOD, you know what GOD says in it is the absolute truth.

So, to prove Muhammad is the last prophet is very easy when you trust the WOrd of GOD.

peace
submitmj

Timepass - October 2013
184

One word of Arabic could have more than one meanings. So besides meaning ‘final’, the word ‘khatam’ also means ‘the Seal’, as Qadianis proclaim. How will you disprove them using Quran alone?

From Qadiani website: Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
“He holds that the word Khatam denotes the consummation and completion of a thing, which he further explains by the words, authenticity, perfection and validity. When a seal is put to a letter it becomes authentic and complete. The seal may be put in the end or in the beginning. According to him, therefore, Khataman Nabiyyeen would mean the truest and the most perfect of prophets and not the last in point of time. It refers to his status and place among the prophets and not to the time of his advent.”

Looks like your whole religion is founded on number 19. A number which is based on a numerical system which was invented by Indians (not Arabs).

185

Every prophet comes with a sign. So why worry about it? Why should we worry about the finality of the prophet of the Quran? This is not an article of faith in the Quran and smacks of sectarian disputes. Its about disputing with Ahmadis. Leave the Quran out of sectarian sidputes. If a prophet comes than we can see what signs he have what arguments he presents. How did people know Moses was a prophet? How did they know Muhammad was a prophet? Many didn’t because they did not believe in the signs they came from. You don;t use hadiths to win some sectarian argument, because the other sects won’t follow your hadiths and probably have their own hadiths. Every sect have different hadiths even though they follow the same Quran. Amazing stuff!!!

186

Every prophet comes with a sign? And who can agree on those signs, if there is no agreement on the translation of word 'khatam'?

Good to know that you agree that Quran is INSUFFICIENT to prove the finality of Prophet of Islam.

187

I agree with the part of your argument where you mention the tamperings and corruption that took place under the name of the Prophet (saww). Still does not invalidate the fact that every word the Prophet (saww) uttered was indeed mainesfestation of the Will of God.

188

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Hello Sumbitmj, Can you please inform us of your method of contact prayers (Namaz/Salat)?
Also, I would like to know if Quran mentions that rukoo is a part of namaz.

189

All religious duties came through Abraham, NOT Muhammad. Thus, everybody already by Muhammad's time knew how to perform salat. However, by the time Muhammad came they had messed up the Ablution procedure. Thus, the Quran explains the correct way of doing it (4 steps only) in Sura 5, verse 506. All other steps are from satan. GOD says 4 steps and that is it. We are to hear and obey. That is why the Quran tells Muhammad to 'follow the religion of Abraham' who was the first to call us muslims/submitters.

I know what you are trying to do, but you are only exposing your own hypocrisy that you refuse to believe GOD says in Quran and arrogantly disobey GOD with your attacks on Quran by claiming you need man-made books (hadiths Sunnah) to understand a book from GOD. Especially, when GOD tells you not to uphold any other source of religious guidance other than the Quran.

submitmj

190

The QUran is what came out of Muhammad's mouth, not hadiths and SUnnah. They came from the mouths of other people 200+ years after Muhammad died. Ask yourself, why is it so hard for you to believe what GOD is telling you in Quran? GOD is telling you VERY VERY clearly NOT to uphold any other source of religious guidance. Why do you reject what GOD says, but accept false rumors from other people?

Peace
submitmj

191

Which "everybody" are you talking about?
Who told you that Namaz was not messed up by that time? If Muslims after Prophet messed up Ibrahim's Namaz/ablution/etc. then how could people before Prophet only mess up ablution but not namaz?

Also, is rukoo a part of namaz?

192

Peace Bigmo

I have not been on this thread for some time and I see this response. From the outset it looks like a good reply. I see you have done some homework.

There are subtle factors of great import which if not taken into consdieration will make it seem you are correct. These factors are as so:

a) The Qur'an is not the complete Word of God, see Surah Al-Kahf Verse 109
b) The Qur'an in the form we see it today is the form it was preserved, any prior verses during the assembling of the Qur'an, at the time of demise of RasulAllah (SAW) and during his (SAW)'s life when he instructed the Sahabah to cancel ayaat were verses revealed for the temporal situations.
c) The Qur'an also says "We cause him to forget" which indicates some of the verses have not been compiled, because they were forgotten.

What we can be sure of however is that the Sahabah were involved in the formulation of the Qur'an as was Muhammad (SAW) bringing together the words of Allah (SWT) and the completed form to what we have today is what Muslims believe to be The Book as Allah (SWT) Wishes it to be. From the time of Uthman (RA) this compilation has not changed.

There is thus a big difference in the terms 'preserved' and 'complete' ... Whereas the argument raised initially by submitmj was that the Qur'an is complete in that it does not require hadith, it was shown that this is not the case. And you Bigmo show it clearly in hadith that submitmj actually rejects.

However, Muslims hold that the Qur'an is protected and preserved by Allah (SWT) ... we understand this in context to accepting that the verses which perished were always meant to have perished and the preserved form is henceforth.

We do not however assert that any ADDITIONAL verses have crept in like submitmj's people tell us. This would be a great slander on the character of the Sahabah. A goat eating the paper which contained the only documentary evidence for a certain injunction was not intentional on any human being. It must be that Allah (SWT) Willed for it to be so.

193

Sumbmitmj, as per Quran, the source of guidance is the Prophet (saww). Quran is his miracle and the word of God. I am actually one of those 'deviants' who believe that Allah (swt) created this universe in the love of Mohammad Wa Aalay Mohammad (saww). So therefore you and I have very different POVs.

194

Your comment has proved your idolatry of Prophet Muhammad. I bet you also say in your Shahada that you bear witness Muhammad is the messenger of GOD'.

[63:1] When the hypocrites come to you they say, "We bear witness that you are the messenger of GOD."* GOD knows that you are His messenger, and GOD bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.

[63:2] Under the guise of their apparent faith, they repel the people from the path of GOD. Miserable indeed is what they do.

[63:3] This is because they believed, then disbelieved. Hence, their minds are blocked; they do not understand.

peace
submitmj

195

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

submit bhai, i have debated these issues with Wahabhis so many times that i am bored now. I know you are not one one of them but anyway. I hope you pray for this 'idoltar of Mohammad' and i shall pray for you, Insha Allah.

196

can you show me a QUran that exists today that was compiled in the time of the Prophet Muhammad saw ?

197

Peace submitmj

These verses are so much more applicable on the one who is applying them on to others. In verse 1, the meaning to take from it is that it is simply not enough to say that "one bears witness Muhammad (SAW) is the Messenger of God" rather it is necessary then to move with these words and love and obey him also. Never to seperate his instruction from God, because that would be the realisation that a Muslim has that when Muhammad (SAW) speaks he does so not from himself. Those who do not do this repel others from loving Muhammad (SAW) and obeying him. Verse 3 is exactly the case with the anti-hadithers.

Pagluu ... I love this bro, SubhanAllah!

198

It does not say 'ONLY THE BELIEVERS' will say they 'bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of GOD. It is says 'ONLY THE HYPOCRITES' will say that. In fact, this verse was for Muhammad to distinguish who were the wicked hypocrites when they approached him. Since this applied to people who knew the Prophet in the flesh while he was alive, it most certainly applies to those who NEVER KNEW HIM.

So, why do you say this hypocritical statement in the Shahada when GOD says only the hypocrites will say this? WHy do you mention other names beside GOD?

[Quran 39:45] When GOD ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.*

[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone,* they run away in aversion.

submitmj

199

Peace submitmj

Please re-read the orange passage above ... you cannot qualify that statement at all for you have not hadith to prove your reasoning.

Again taking the Qur'an as your personal tool to apply onto others is not a healthy practice, especially when the context is about intercession and about worship of idols for those who do not believe in the Hereafter. Please read Surah 33:56-57 for starters and make sure you are not being selective with those verses.

200

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Hello submitmj,
My post # 191 is waiting the response.