This chain of fatherhood definitely goes on trust but in a court of law where a verdict has to be passed, one has to bring definite proofs, just bringing few people who knew that Mr A bin B was son of Mr B bin C will not matter. Short of verdict every thing is possible.
Same thing i am saying that to give religious verdicts in Islam about Hurmat of something, clear cut proofs have to be brought out that indeed the prophet said that. NO one can doubt what prophet said and Hazrat Abu Bakar's famous reply also stated a part which you probably missed. He started "If he said than it is true" See the words "If he said". He had a way of countercehcking with the prophet. Do we have? So then what we do?
Simple, accept those Hadith who have multiple chain of Narrators. i.e. Mutawatir and all those who are giving explanation of Quran and are not prohibiting or allowing something not prescribed by Quran. However we have to put aside all those Sahih Ahadith which have single chain of narrators and which go ahead of Hurmat as prescribed by Quran. Please understand that it does not tantamount to rejecting what prophet has said. It is to avoid what some impostor may have fabricated. This is precisely the reason that Sahabas have been recorded to avoid discussing Ahadith so that they do not have conflict amongst each other.
My criteria definitely is weak and just a proposal based on my limited knowledge and thereby liable to changes but what i was trying to put across is that declaring something explicitly Haraam or Halaal which has neither been declared explicitly nor implicitly Haraam or Halaal by Quran is transgressing our powers. If Hazrat Muhammad wanted to declare something explicitly Haram or Halaal (something not covered in Quran) He would have openly declared it in public meetings and we are sure to find multiple chain of narrators but if only one person comes up and says he heard from him who heard from whom, then we have a right to doubt not the prophet but the chain.
Quran was only told by Hazoor PBUH , why you don’t tell that he was telling lie only he lissen from the Hazrat Jibraeel no one else
just to check he was true or not , surely you will study his life history, then you will judge that he is liar or a true person
same thing is done in case of Hadees , go and check the life history of each narrator
you are only following your own thoughts , come out of that , before you fell more in deapth of darkness
you people are comming again and again with the same post , trying to cause some doubt in the mind of common persons, why don’t you go to some aalim or even you don’t trust them go and buy some authentic book of hadees and check out the criteria of selecting hadees , rather then running the horses of your own thoughts that are leading you to darkness
most of ahadees narated by Hazrat Ayesha are single chain
so you are saying that Hazrat Ayesha was naozbilla a lier
all thoes ahadees that have only one chain of narrators have been separted from a long time ago , since the time of compilation of ahadees
for your information thoes ahadees are called as Ghareeb Ahadees , ie thoes have only single narrator/ single chain of narrator
do you know what you are trying to say , that you are blamiing Sahaba of this
do you think that poeple of the Past , does not know any thing or you are the only genious in the whole islamic world since Hazoor PBUH , no one have ever thought about this, no one have done work on this.
my serious advice to you , go and buy some authentic book of hadees and read the selection critiera from their , instead of running your own thougts
Dear Armughal please remember that said that In Sahih Bukhari Hazrat Aisha(ra) Hadith is Fabricated . But no worries at all, here is new stuff for you.
please concentrate:
Hazrat Fatima ( as ) in the Holy QuranAllah is the light of the heavens and the earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass .... 25 : 35 ] Ibn al Maghazli al Shafi'i has related that the niche means Hazrat Fatima ( as ), the lamp means Hasan ( as ) and Hussain ( as ) ..... Give the kinsman his due .... 17 : 26 ] Commentators have written that when this verse was revealed the Holy Prophet ( saw ) asked the Angel Gibrael : Who are the kinsmen and what is their due ? The Angel replied : Give Fidak to Fatima for it is her due, and whatever is due to Allah and the Prophet out of Fadak, that also belongs to her, so entrust it to her also. Thereupon the Holy Prophet called Fatima ( as ) and wrote the deed of gift, giving Fadak to her.
Tafseer Durre Mansoor ( Volume 4 page 177 ) It is Allah's wish to remove all blemish from you, O Ahl al Bayt, and purify you with a perfect purification. 33 : 33 ] Al Tirmizi, Ibn Manthoor, Al Hakim, Ibn Mardawaih and Al Bayhaqi in his Sunan, all recorded the report of Umme Salemah, wife of the Prophet ( saw ) in which she said : Im my own house the Quranic verse : Certainly God wants to keep away all abominitions from you .... Ali Fatima, Al Hassan and Al Hussein were at my house. The messenger of God covered them with a garment and then said : These are the members of my House. God keep away abomination from them and make them pure and spotless. Sahih al Tirmizi, Volume 5 page 328 Hadith no. 3875 **And whoever disputes with thee concerning him after the inspired knowledge which has been given untoo thee, tell him : ' Come, let us call our sons and your sons; our women and your women; and ourselves and yourselves; then let us pray and invoke Allah's curse upon those who lie. 3 : 61 ] When the above verse came down ( at the time of debate between the Messenger and the Christians from Najran ), the Messenger of God called upon Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussein and said : God, these are the members of my family.
**Sahih Muslim Volume 15 page 176
The Marriage
One day when the Prophet ( saw ) came out and joined his companions his face was beaming with joy. Abd al Rahman ibn Awf inquired as to the cause 2of his ( saw ) joy and the Prophet ( saw ) said :I have received good tidings from my Lord about my brother and the son of my uncle, that Allah has given my daughter Fatima, Peace be Upon Her and her progeny, in marriage to Ali. Sawaiq Al Muhriqah page 103
The Prophet ( saw ) said : O Fatima ! Are you not pleased with this, that Allah, the Mighty and Glorious, cast a glance on the dwellers of the earth and selected from them two men, one of them your father and the other your husband ? Mustadrak Al Hakim Volume 3 page 129 ( admits it to be genuine ) Kanz al Ummal Volume 6 page 153 Musnad of Imam Ahmed Volume 5 page 39 Sharh al Nahj al Balagah Volume 2 page 451
Ibn Abu Hatam has recorded a report from Anas, who says that Umar and Abu Bakr came to the Prophet ( saw ) and each of them requested to give him the hand of Fatima ( as ). But the Prophet ( saw ) kept silent and gave no answer. Then both of them went to Ali ( as ) and told him that they had asked for the hand of Fatima ( as ), but the Prophet ( saw ) gave no answer. They requested Ali ( as ) to ask for the hand of Fatima ( as ).
Many eminent traditionists have copied this report from Ibn Hatam. Ibn Hajar Asqalani ( Hadith Scientist ) has recorded in the opening part of Chapter 11 of Sawaiq al Muhriqah. Kanz al Ummal Volume 6 page 153 Musnad of Imam Ahmed Volume 5 page 31
Prophet (S) also reported to have said: “Fatima is part of me, that which annoys her annoys me, and that which harms her harms me.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Sahih Tirmidhi...)
I told you before that you have hate for Ahle bait, in heart and mind both.
if some is discussing any companion rank, you never challange them, but when ever who discuss rank and status of Ahle bait, you stand first to challange without any proof and evidence,, this thing is called hypocracy..
Seek Almighy Allah forgiveness and study in positive manner. You can argue if you have any solid and athentice proof from Quran. then come and discuss. ALLAH APKA HAMI WA NASIR HO
everyone knows this hadith, its so common....
everyone knows that the second time when Fatima (ra) laughed she did so because the Prophet (saw) told her that she wud be the first one from his family to meet him in Paradise....
and surely, just after 6 months, Fatima (ra) passed away and joined her father in jannah....
no where does the hadith mention being leader of ladies in jannah....
its only in your fabrication....
P.S there r lot of errors in the USC-MSA collections of sahih bukhari, so plz dont bring those forward as proof....
YOu QUESTION : * What is the proof that he said those things? You don't have any. Hazrat Ali was not a shia, nor were his sons and people after that. This shia thing came way after their death and it was created by jew convert Abdullah Bin Saba and his friends, the very cause of rift and problems among muslims..*
** MY ANSWER: Shia, as you know, literally means "follower." One of your greatest ulema, Firuzabadi, in his Qamusu'l-Lughat, says, "The name 'Shia' commonly means every person who is a friend of Ali and his Ahle Bait. This name is peculiar to them." Exactly the same meaning is given by Ibn Athir in Nihayatu'l-Lughat. According to your own commentaries, the word Shia means "follower of Ali Bin Abu Talib" and was used in this way during the time of the Prophet. In fact, it was the Prophet himself who introduced the word Shia as meaning "follower of Ali Bin Abu Talib." And this word was used by the Holy Prophet about whom Allah says: "Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed." (53:3-4) The Prophet called the followers of Ali "The Shia," the "delivered," and the "rescued."
"The crown of narrators of hadith, Hafiz Abu Nu'aim, was the foremost in knowledge, piety, and honesty. He enjoyed a high position in the narration and understanding of hadith. His best work is Hilyatu'l-Auliya in 10 volumes, consisting of derivations from the two Sahihs." Muhammad bin Abdullah al-Khatib praises him in Rijali'l-Mishkati'l-Masabih, saying that he is among the leading narrators of hadith whose narrations are utterly reliable.
In short, this respected scholar and traditionist, the pride of your ulema, relates from Abdullah bin Abbas through his own chain of narrators in his book Hilyatu'l-Auliya relates: "When the following verse of the holy Qur'an was revealed: '(As for) those who believe and do good, surely they are the best of men. Their reward with their Lord is gardens of perpetuity beneath which rivers flow, abiding therein for ever. Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him; that is for him who fears his Lord.' (98:7-8), the Holy Prophet, addressing Ali, said: 'O Ali, the best of creatures (Khairu'l-bariyya) in this holy verse refers to you and your followers (Shia). On the Day of Resurrection, you and your followers (Shia) shall attain such a position that Allah will be pleased with you, and you will be pleased with Him.'"
Jalalu'd-din Suyuti, in his Durru'l-Mansur quotes Abu'l-Qasim Ali Bin Hasan (commonly known as Ibn Asakir Damishqi), who quotes Jabir Bin Abdullah Ansari, one of the greatest companions of the Prophet, as saying that he and others were sitting with the Holy Prophet when Ali Bin Abu Talib came in. The Holy Prophet said: "I swear by Him Who controls my life that this man (Ali) and his Shia shall secure deliverance on the Day of Resurrection." At that time the verse cited above was revealed. In the same commentary, Ibn Adi quotes Ibn Abbas as saying that when the above verse was revealed, the Prophet said *to the Commander of the Faithful, Ali, "You and your followers (Shia) will come on the Day of Resurrection in such a condition that all of you will be pleased with Allah, and Allah will be pleased with you." *
In the Manaqib of Khawarizmi, the following is related from Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari: "I was in the presence of the Holy Prophet when Ali joined us, and thereupon the Holy Prophet said: 'It is my brother that has come to you.' Then, facing towards the Ka'ba, the Prophet took hold of Ali's hand and said: 'By Him Who controls my life, this Ali and his Shia will be delivered on the Day of Judgement.'
**First you study and then tell me, what is above, if you admit it, better for you, if you reject it. THEN YOU SHOULD THINK THAT THE BASE OF YOUR BUILDING IS VERY WEAK ,
we r talking about the hadith that u posted here earlier about what the Prophet (saw) said to fatima (ra) in her ear shortly before he died....
bukhari does not mention in that hadith anything of the sort of being the leader of women of paradise....
u fabricated it and put up a lie....
is that what u always do????
put up lies and say that they r taken from sunni sources to deceive ppl here????
also note another hadith in sahih bukhari which says "the best of the women was maryam (as) and the best women of her time was khadijah (ra)"....
so maryam (as) is the best women for all times....
and in her time, khadijah (ra) was the best woman....
of course u dont need to be a super-genious to know that fatema (ra) was also in the time of khadijah (ra)....
Do not fight amongst each other on Sahabas relative superiority. we are not qualified to prove one better than the other. Leave that to Allah. Mughal do not fall into the trap being laid for you right now. This is a classic trap, you are forced to defend the Sahabas and in that process you invariably try to reduce the supra-prophet status of Hazrat Ali given by the Shia brothers and you are labelled as enemy of Hazrat Ali. Just be quiet or say that Allah knows better.
Did i say that? Never. i mean why a Hadith which was transmitted to Hazrat Ayesha was only transmitted to one person further and not more. we can reasonably think that someone in the middle just said that he heard from falaan bin falaan who heard it from Hazrat Ayesha while Hazrat Ayesha might never have known it. Why do you always drag this discussion into Namos-e-Sahaba where as i do not have any such intention.
all thoes ahadees that have only one chain of narrators have been separted from a long time ago , since the time of compilation of ahadees
for your information thoes ahadees are called as Ghareeb Ahadees , ie thoes have only single narrator/ single chain of narrator
Excellent, now tell me are these Ghareeb Ahadeeths are included in Sahih Bukhari. Also tell me that is it possible to declare something Haraam or Halaal in Islam on the basis of a Ghareeb Hadith. If not then i need not to discuss anymore. That is only the point i want people to understand.
do you think that poeple of the Past , does not know any thing or you are the only genious in the whole islamic world since Hazoor PBUH , no one have ever thought about this, no one have done work on this.
I never said that i am the only genious however see the history you will always find skeptics who have been marginalized by main stream mullahs by calling them heretics and munkireen-e-Ahadith however they never rejected Ahadith, they rejected statements portrayed as ahadith by the hypocrites and impostors. Now these mullahs have collected these Ahadith they want to give them equal status to Quran. Off course not all are wrong but you know one wrong hadith ending up in Sahih Bukhari makes the collectors ability to judge right from wrong completely doubtful. If he can err once he can err twice or many more. The credibility is at stake.
I am not doubting sahabas, for Allah's sake last time i am telling you, i am doubting the people between the sahabas and the compilers and compilers criteria for judging between right and wrong. and no more i will refute this allegation. If you think similarly so be it, my matter is with Allah.
my serious advice to you , go and buy some authentic book of hadees and read the selection critiera from their , instead of running your own thougts
give proof
why do not you tell me the criteria. i have got all the six hadith books (both Arabic and English translation) in a mosque where i say my prayers. where is the criteria written?
this is a requirement for it to be a correct hadeeth. The original narrator must have these conditions:
• 1.) Been a Muslim at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him
• 2.) Saw the prophet, peace be upon him
• 3.) Been known for his/her memory
• 4.) Been known integrity & honesty and trustworthiness
• 5.) If they say that they “heard” or “he said” then they must have actually been there to hear it.
• 6.) died as a Muslim
then that mean you don’t trust that sahabi, or abusing him/her of being a lier
Allah have given them status after Quran , because hadees are also the revelations of Allah but the only difference is of Wahi matlo and not matlo
means thoes which to be recited regularly ie Quran and not matlo which are not recited like Quran
none hadees in sahih bukhari is wrong
there are some which are know as zaeeef , but that does’t mean that are wrong
when ever , some of the ravi doesn’t full fill the above criteria , then it is called zaeef , it doesn’t mean it is wrong
there are also many ahadees which have multiple chains and among thoes one of chain is zaeef then thoes hadees are called zaeef with resepect to thoes chains
there are more then 50 types of Ahadees and Sahih is one type , it doesn’t mean that if hadees is not sahih then it is wrong
i am giving the name of some so that you can search and study them
unintentially you are doing so, life of every ravi till compiler is recorded
criteria of checking hadees is much much stronger then your thought
try to get the full books not the extracted versions, their full criterias are given
also read the purpose of compilation of books by these imams
for example
imam bukhari RA wants to point out the fikhai ikham from the sahih hadees
imam muslim RA wants to collect same types of hadees togethers thats why it is easier to find hadees in sahih Muslim then in sahih Bukhari
imam abu dawood Ra wants to collect thoes hadees to explain some purpose on which some one would have debated and have tried to describe that in different ways, and if some hadees is zaeef , then he also tried to talk on that
who complied the life of every Rawi? I read about Isma-ul-rijjal in Ziaul Nabi volume 7 but how detailed are those stories and how authentic? Remember i am talking of people between Sahabas and Compilers. Also have you seen the calculation of USR on abilities of Imam Bukhari. Analysis of average 41 Hadeeth a day is a bit too high ask.
unintentially you are doing so, life of every ravi till compiler is recorded
criteria of checking hadees is much much stronger then your thought
Refer some of the rejected Hadith and only then we can put both accepted side by side with rejected and see how strong is the criteria. You have to prove the strength, merely declaring it strong does not make it strong.
Explain to me the Waqiya-e-Qartas narrated in Sahih Bukhari in the light of strength of your criteria.
My dear brother, first go and find the given reference given from your great books then come and discuss, basically you are blind believer and you dont try to even see the fact given above...
if you do no believe, PLEASE GUYS READ THE ABOVE HADITH's AND REPLY TO ARMUGHAL , either that is fake or it is availble in given books,,
you are trying to deny but you cant... ARMUGHAL,,,,, YOU ARE A HYPOCRATE.
ALLAH HAFIZ
we r talking about the hadith that u posted here earlier about what the Prophet (saw) said to fatima (ra) in her ear shortly before he died....
bukhari does not mention in that hadith anything of the sort of being the leader of women of paradise....
u fabricated it and put up a lie....
is that what u always do????
put up lies and say that they r taken from sunni sources to deceive ppl here????
also note another hadith in sahih bukhari which says "the best of the women was maryam (as) and the best women of her time was khadijah (ra)"....
so maryam (as) is the best women for all times....
and in her time, khadijah (ra) was the best woman....
of course u dont need to be a super-genious to know that fatema (ra) was also in the time of khadijah (ra)....
DEAR FRIENDS , MKF AND ALL OTHERS,
Could you all visit the link and read the Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Hadith No. 819. for Armughal, becuase he is continously apposing the hadith as FAKE,
please read and if possible reply to Mr.Armughal about hadith athenticity from online Sahih Bukhari.
I will be thank to you for opening Armughal Windows of Brian.
ALLAH AP SAB KA HAMI WA NASIR HO. SPECIALLY ARMUGHAL KA
we r talking about the hadith that u posted here earlier about what the Prophet (saw) said to fatima (ra) in her ear shortly before he died…
bukhari does not mention in that hadith anything of the sort of being the leader of women of paradise…
u fabricated it and put up a lie…
is that what u always do???
put up lies and say that they r taken from sunni sources to deceive ppl here???
also note another hadith in sahih bukhari which says “the best of the women was maryam (as) and the best women of her time was khadijah (ra)”…
so maryam (as) is the best women for all times…
and in her time, khadijah (ra) was the best woman…
of course u dont need to be a super-genious to know that fatema (ra) was also in the time of khadijah (ra)…
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