Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

HOLY Prophet says: TAKE MY HADITH AND TELLY WITH QURAN, IF QURAN TESTIFY ALL RIGHT OTHER WISE FAKE.

Means to say, In sahih bukhari and muslim there are alot of hadith which does not telly quran . so that means its fake.

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

Where did the holy prophet say that?

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

Healthymind, I am not sure what you are refering too... I am just asking how do you know Hazrat Ali (ra) said that stuff? Typical reply is "aaah, its in our hadith books...." oh yeah, how do you know the hadith books are authentic? "aah, i know so..." you know same line of questions and concerns that sunnah rejectors throw at bukhari and Muslim hadith books... of course in this case, denying if hazrat Ali's (as much as we all respect him and admire him) hadiths are authentic or not doesn't really mean anything whereas denying word of the prophet could lead you to the hell fire.

[QUOTE]
killing of apostates etc.
[/QUOTE]

I asked this question to the sunnah rejecting champion over here but all I got was that "it doesn't really matter." so lets see again:

What did the prophet do when cases such as apostates/adultry were brought in front of him?

"it does't really matter" answer doesn't solve the problem and IT DOES MATTER.

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

give reference to this hadees

second how do you say that this hadees telly with Quran

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Re: Imam Ali (as) Saying: Taken from Peak of Eloquence

o dont bother with such things…
our sub-continenet ppl get emotional and make up such things…

like they say “fatima is the leader of the women in jannah” and dont think that Quran says that Allah has given fadhal to Maryam (as) over the nisaa-al-alameeen (women of all the worlds)…

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

if you need logic then please take attention to my words

if in Pakistan some girl wears a mini skirt in market , it will be called as unmodest but that will be modest in america, smilarly if in america some wears shalwar Qameez , it will be unmodest in america and modest in Pakistan

so mostly people only thinks according to their environments

Islamic rules and regulations are for whole mankind.

some people feal unmodest the proper guidlines of Islam (Quran O Hadees ) according to their environment. but it doesn't mean that Quran O Hadees are wrong . Its their understanding which lead them wrong

All thoese Hadees whoes sanad means chain is correct is true but some people say its wrong because in their environment that seems to be unmodest

i hope you understand

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

Br. Usman, again I hear about chain being correct. How are you ascertaining the chain is correct. I hope you can answer this. Everytime I ask this people seem to go deaf, dumb and blind.

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

Exactly, USR. I have been trumpeting the same question again and again.

How do i know that chain is correct that if I was told by USR and he tells me that he was told by Nishtar and who was told by Jinnah. Now i only know USR and as the other people in the chain are dead, i have no way of assurance that whether they did say it to each other or not. Just existence of two links in the same era and being known to each other can differentiate between truth and falsehood. There needs to be something more than that. Like by tallying it with Quran. It is not reasonable to issue a religious edict on one statement of Mr X bin Y that he heard the thing from b bin C who heard it from Mr J bin K and the list goes on & on & on till you reach the prophet. He may never have said that and someone may have put his own thoughts like putting women indoors by taliban was called Islam. Surely we all have our own notions about religion. Also they may have transmitted reliably but may have forgotten some key words and replaced them by their own words. now our hair splitters will take a new fatwa from those wordings.

I do not say that reject all the Hadith but do not declare something Halaal and Haraam only on the basis of Hadith (without any mention of similar thing from Quran). We use Ahadeeth to understand Quran, to put our life in order, to follow the prophet of Sunnah but just one Hadith like the own declaring eye brow trimming to be haraam is something beyond comprehension.

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

how you know your father is your father and how you trust that your grandfather was your real grandfather you have doubt about chain of narrators, and i have doubt about your chain

go and check out the works of ulmma of Islam
people have spent their lives on this
their you will get ever minute detail of science of Hadees
by just thinking every thing is wrong then everything will looks wrong to you

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

go and ask them how they believe in their own chains and how they know that they are not the seeds of Haram
in the books every narrater life have been purely disscussed , based on his piousness , the hadees goes forward , otherwise that would have been rejected
thoes who want to believe , usually believe like Hazarat Abu Bakar RA when some tribal had told him that Hazoor went in to heaven and come back within a second . and he RA replied , if he said then it is true

this is the mashoor Qool of some one might be sahabi , i am forgetting the name
the if some one say that i believe in Allah but i have doubt in wordings of Rasool Allah , is actually a lier
and today peoples are trying to create this scenario they say we believe in Allah but we have doubt in wordings of Rasool Allah

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

Dear brother Here is chain of Imam Ali (as) saying:

Ali ibn Abu Talib- 7th century- cousin and son-in law of the Prophet Muhammed(may Allah bless him and give him peace), first shia imam -completely versed in the Quraan by the age of 9-10 and extensively knowledgable in the natural sciences, composer of shia narration- the peak of eloquence

al-Husayn ibn 'Ali third Shi'i Imam and famed martyr at Karbala
Muhammad al Baqir **
**Jafar Sadiq - 702, Arab, Shia Imam
Musa al Kazim- shia Imam-a religious scholar descendant of the Prophet Muhammed
Ali ar Rida- grandson of the Prophet Muhammed, religious scholar
ibn al-Haitham - (965-1040) a twelver shia-"father of optics"- established the study of the Human eye and refraction if light through lenses
Muhammad Ya'qub Kulainy - 950, Sufficing fundaments (Usul al-Kafi)
Mohammad ibn Ali (ibn-e Babuyeh) or (Shaikh Saduq) 927/928 - (306 -381 A.H.)
al-Sharif al-Radi - 970, compiler of the Peak of Eloquence (Nahj al-Balagha)

Instead of reasoning , find any doubt and then discuss with me along with evidence.

ALLAH APKA HAMI WA NASIR HO

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Re: Imam Ali (as) Saying: Taken from Peak of Eloquence

Kenz Al-Omal. Narrate from the second Caliph, Umar Bin Khattab: "I bear witness that I heard the Prophet say, 'If the seven heavens were put in one balance and Ali's faith in the other, Ali's faith would surely outweigh the other.'

As human you first read these saying and when you stucked some where , and you got doubt about Saying, then come and ask.
But i failed to understand , where you got problem in these sayings, or either you have some one else better then Imam Ali (as), ????

If know why you are feeling bad.... do you think that there is some one esle who can write such outstanding words.??????

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Re: Imam Ali (as) Saying: Taken from Peak of Eloquence

I think you are not muslim, becuase ALLAH saved what Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) said, (Al- Qur'an) . Holy Quran Is revealed upon Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and saved by Allah till QAYAMT. Where you have doubt about his saying....

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Re: Imam Ali (as) Saying: Taken from Peak of Eloquence

My dear Brother: Go and read book (BEHESHT ZIWAR) "Ahle sunnat book"
where three woman having same respect : 1)Hazrat Hawa (as) 2) Hazrat Maryam(as) 3) Hazrat Fatima (as).

Quran is revealed upon Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) who says:
"FATIMA MARE JIGAR KA TUKRA HIA, JISNE ISKO HAFA KIA , USNE MUJE HAFA KIA, OR JIS NE MUJE HAFA KIA, USNE ALLAH HO HAFA KIA".

If you think it is we who gave higher rank to her , than you are wrong. Becuase It is ALLAH and HIS MESSENGER who gave here higher rank.

I think you neither respect Quran nor Holy Prophet (pbuh).

ALLAH HAFIZ

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

^ double standards and hypocrisy very obvious in ur post....
and btw beheshti zewar is not even worth reading....
find something better....

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

No worries at all dear ARMUGHAL if you think that (BEHESHTE ZIWAR) is not worth readin:

*Narrated 'Aisha: *Sahih al Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 819:

Once Fatima came walking and her gait resembled the gait of the Prophet . The Prophet said, "Welcome, O my daughter!" Then he made her sit on his right or on his left side, and then he told her a secret and she started weeping. I asked her, "Why are you weeping?" He again told her a secret and she started laughing. I said, "I never saw happiness so near to sadness as I saw today." I asked her what the Prophet had told her. She said, "I would never disclose the secret of Allah's Apostle ." When the Prophet died, I asked her about it. She replied. "The Prophet said 'Every year Gabriel used to revise the Qur'an with me once only, but this year he has done so twice. I think this portends my death, and you will be the first of my family to follow me.' So I started weeping. Then he said. 'Don't you like to be the mistress of all the ladies of Paradise or the mistress of all the lady believers? So I laughed for that.' "

Sahih al Bukhari Volume 5 hadith 61
"Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."

Ahl'ul Sunnah's leading Sunni scholar of Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 5 page 51, al Hafidh Jalaladeen Suyuti in Tafseer Durre Manthur, narrates from Ibn Marwaya - Uns bin Malik - Burhaida:

"Rasulullah (s) recited this verse 'and amongst houses is a house that Allah has ordered to be exalted'. A Sahaba asked 'O Prophet of Allah whose house is being referred to here?' He (s) said this refers to the houses of Prophets. At this point Abu Bakr pointed in the direction of the house of Ali and Fatima and asked is the house of 'Ali and Fatima included amongst the homes of the Prophets?' Rasulullah (s) replied 'Yes their home is superior to their homes'.

YOU WANT MORE????????????????????????//

Celebrity pics
Celebrity pics
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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

Good finally someone stepped up. Well I know my father is my fathe because he raised me and my grandfather is my grandfather because I lived with him and I have seen him. Now all this shows me is that these people existed. Now how can I ascertain when my father tells me something that my grandfather said after he has been laid to rest that was told him by his father.

Here comse an important point for verification, if my great grand father were a public figure and he proclaimed something in full public view then it will have a better chance of being propagated in some form or another. It may be twisted or not. Now if my great grandfather said something in private to my father or somebody else it remains confined to that person. That person may propagate it but you cannot compare it against anything else as in the case if were publicly proclaimed.

Now all we go by is reputation of a person, which too is established by what people say. So tell me now this universe testifies to the existence of Allah SWT whereas in the case of ahadith all that testifies to there veracity is belief on the tongues of others (which I know you'll come saying that the same people transmitted the Quran). However if that is the argument then why did the scholars go about verifying the ahadith and not the Quran if it came from the same people. This is why I do not agree with those who keep saying hadith has the same status of revelation.

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

stop fabricating things…

everyone knows this hadith, its so common…

everyone knows that the second time when Fatima (ra) laughed she did so because the Prophet (saw) told her that she wud be the first one from his family to meet him in Paradise…
and surely, just after 6 months, Fatima (ra) passed away and joined her father in jannah…

no where does the hadith mention being leader of ladies in jannah…
its only in your fabrication…

P.S there r lot of errors in the USC-MSA collections of sahih bukhari, so plz dont bring those forward as proof…

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Re: Hadith and thier Authenticity [Split]

What sayings? What is the proof that he said those things? You don't have any. Hazrat Ali was not a shia, nor were his sons and people after that. This shia thing came way after their death and it was created by jew convert Abdullah Bin Saba and his friends, the very cause of rift and problems among muslims.

Plus, do you even know what makes an IMAM???

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Re: Imam Ali (as) Saying: Taken from Peak of Eloquence

Read what I said again... QURAN is WORD OF ALLAH, not word of Mohammad.

How did the PROPHET live his life? What was his conduct, his reaction in regards to:

-His daily life?
-With his wives?
-How he met with friends?
-How he prayed?
-How he performed hajj?
-How he conducted warfare?
-How did he deal with politics of that time?
...so on and so forth.

So, allah was able to save every little piece of saying that came out of Hazrat Ali's mouth but could not save his last prophet Mohammad's example for his ummah? You apparently need to read more carefully so you don't make a fool out of yourself by misunderstanding.

Hazrat Ali was a great man, great cousin, great sahabi and an excellent follower of the Prophet Mohammad, lets keep it that way? If you start worshiping him and bring him above the status of Prophet Mohamad then you are surely headed for debths of hell.