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PA, stop whining and crying and answer lady’s QUESTION!
*Oh Rashid Khilafa and Ghulam Ahmad Perviez, what would they do without you.
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As I stated earlier, I’d prefer aahmed to discuss his stance or at least let us know he wouldn’t be attempting it before approaching the subject.
Let’s not get into the habit of instant gratification. Learning over a period of time is sweeter.
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Cereal,
I assume after all these discussions you’ve finally found your place. A little boy in the crowd with “nanner nanner boo boo” left for an argument.
The Mothership is now boarding
PA, you are back in your pace. Throwing usual insults, personal remarks, etc., and ignoring the questions, arguments.
Go cry on Rashid KHilafa’s and Ghulam Ahmed Perveiz’s graves, maybe thye might have ANSWER to creed THEY introduced!
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Should we pray like Ibrahim? How did he pray?
Man all of those millions of people in Islam’s history doing their own way of praying and practicing islam like Prophet mohammad did, sure will go to hell if creed of PA/aahmed/Rashid Khilafa are true!
PA, you IGNORED this:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said “If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease.”
How did Imam Bukhari know about such advance details about wing of a fly? Todays research shows what imam bukhari noted in his sahi 1250+ years ago! Off course, the hadith came from the PROPHET and is 100% authentic!
With your stupid logic, ALL OF THE HISTORY WHICH HAS BEEN RECORDED IS FALSE AND NOT TRUE! Because not single person alive today was there to see it happening!
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Yet, you heedless people would bash, insult sayings of Prophet, which TOOK GREAT deal of hard work to collect through most reliable sources!
AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: “DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH”, THEY SAY “WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS” VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur’an-2:11-12]
[This message has been edited by Serial Guppy (edited May 01, 2002).]
I am truly amazed as well!!
The question is being ignored outright, and further 'red herrings' are being put in the way.
I will once again try.
After Tawheed, our sole purpose is to worship Allah as stated in the Qur'aan.
Furthermore, the Qur'aan tells us to wash in a specific manner, prior to praying. This in turn confirms that there must be specific times for prayer, which the Qur'aan actually states. Now, any lay person will be able to realise that if there are specific times for prayer then surely there must be specific actions, postures and recitals of words which must complete the formula of prayer.
Can someone now please tell me, what is this formula for prayer and where do we get it from in the Qur'aan?
Secondly, dealing with the 'red herrings', not only do we follow the same religion as Abraham, but other Prophets as well!!
Please read and digest:
042.013 The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
Just in case you did't realise, but all the Messengers bar none, came with the same Message.
Finally, the Qur'aan itself attests that we are correct in our form of worship, as we worship exactly like the Prophets did:
022.026 Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House, (saying):
"Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
003.043 "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."
048.029 Muhammad is the apostle of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer).....
009.112 Those that turn (to Allah) in repentance; that serve Him, and praise Him; that wander in devotion to the cause of Allah,: that bow down and prostrate themselves in prayer......
However, exactly what order we carry out the prayer actions and what we actually recite in the prayer is something which we were taught by the Prophet PBUH in harmony with the Qur'aan.
If the Prophet PBUH was not as importnat as some of you state, then why did Allah chose him to deliver ALL of MANKIND from darkness!!
A mistake by any chance!!( la haulla wa la kuwata illa billa)
I've done half the job for you. So at least show some courtesy and complete the original question concerning Salaat.
We await.
serial, please show me the paper/textbook/publication that mentions anything about this property of fly wings?
PA: I know i'm very impatient, but what's bothering me is you're not answering my question. As you've mentioned that you're waiting for Aahmed to reply so that you can critique on it. In the meantime, why not enlighten me (and the rest) with your procedure of Salat.
Jazakallah khair!
Once again you fail to exhibit any comprehension of the issue under discussion. History is NOT recorded orally. It’s written down and there have to be alternate accounts from other sources which should corroborate each other and be revised and reconciled with archaelogical discoveries.
Bring me a copy of mashafs of the thousands of Hadiths from the year 650 or earlier?? Go ahead. You can’t.. cuz THEY DON"T EXIST! How’s that for writing down history.
Here’s a small sample of that “hard work” and “reliable sources”. Now ask your darling moderator not to delete these this time and answer if you can:
CONTRADICTORY INSTRUCTIONS ON WHETHER TO DRINK WATER STANDING UP OR SITTING DOWN
Sitting
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5017:
“Anas reported Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) **DISAPPROVED THE DRINKING OF WATER WHILE STANDING.” **
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5018:
"Anas reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) FORBADE THAT A PERSON SHOULD DRINK WHILE STANDING. Qatada reported: We said to him: What about eating? Thereupon he (Anas) said: That is even worse and more detestable (abominable). "
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5019:
“This hadith is reported on the authority of Anas with a different chain of transmitters, but no mention is made of the words of Qatada.”
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5020:
"Abu Sa’id Khudri reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) WARNED AGAINST DRINKING WHILE STANDING."
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5021:
“Abu Sa’id Khudri reported this hadith through another chain of transmitters but with a slight, variation of wording.”
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5022:
"Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: NONE OF YOU SHOULD DRINK WHILE STANDING; and if anyone forgets, he must vomit."
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but wait.. what’s this??
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5023:
"Ibn Abbas reported: I served.(water of) Zamzam to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), and HE DRANK IT WHILE STANDING."
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5024:
“Ibn 'Abbas reported that **ALLAH’S MESSENGER (MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM) DRANK (WATER) FROM ZAMZAM IN A BUCKET WHILE HE WAS STANDING.” **
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5025:
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that ALLAH’S APOSTLE (MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM) DRANK (WATER) FROM ZAMZAM WHILE HE WAS STANDING."
Muslim, Book 23, Number 5026:
“Ibn 'Abbas reported: I served (water from) Zamzam to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), and HE DRANK WHILE STANDING, and he asked for it while he was near the House (i.e. House of Allah-Ka’ba).”
Get your story straight now people.. which one is it?? Sitting or Standing??
How about drinking it whilst floating in 'mid air'!
I'm sure this would resolve the problem.
Anyway getting back to the point concerning Salaat. Please answer.
We were not created to drink water.
We were created to Worship Allah!!
Saadia, I haven't forgotten your question, still working on it, I don't dare come here and post a halfassed reply without thorough research behind it, other wise these fellas will do the regular bashing that they're used to.
Right now, I'm not going to pursue this Hadith discussion anymore... the reason is simple, no matter what I say they will not believe me, and no matter what they say, I will not believe them.
Someone asked why I didn't translate the word Hadith and left it intact while I translated all the other words, the response to that is, that I DID translate the word Hadith in the first sentence of my post as "narration". The reason I used the word Hadith in the translations is to show where the word occured in the verses, just to show what I knew would happen, which is someone posted the same translations with different words for Hadith.
Gentlemen, and lady, we are not going to agree on this, period, I'm afraid there is nothing left to argue about and getting personal, and I can't wait for some of you to come out and say that i chickened out and am a kafir, well, that's fine, you may believe what you will, this is just not worth it to me, we all obviously feel very strongly about what we believe in.
Thanks for an interesting debate though.
Saadia, i will PM you the result of my searches.
Aahmed: AoA, why would you need to do a research on it? Because since your source of information is only Quran and I’m assuming that you do pray regularly then it shouldn’t take you long to look for the verses that you recite in your prayer.
*waiting for your PM/post!
Whats there to “RESEARCH” don’t you PRAY already? Oh my GOD! You have to do research to figure out a WAY to pray, YET? That is something.
Rashid khilafa/Ghulam Ahmed Perviez didn’t do their JOB RIGHT!
Saadia, why do you assume that I pray at all? The truth is I myself am not sure HOW to pray and am still looking for the real way, in the mean time I pray in a very unconventional, personal way... the point is, I DO have a problem with the way conventional muslims pray, it just doesn't make sense to me, to read back to God what He told us. To give blessings and salutations to a prophet when logic would dictate that he himself did not give blessings and salutations to himself in his prayers, thus negating the fact that conventional muslims pray today EXACTLY the way the Prophet prayed.
Secondly, I have a problem with La Ilaaha Illallah, mUhammed ur rasool allah... did Ibrahim's people say La Ilaaha Illallah, Ibrahim ur rasool allah? Did Moses's people say La Ilaaha Illallah, Moosa ur rasool allah? You get my point? Those people also brought Islam, so why don't we say La ilaaha Illallah, muhammed, wa musa, wa eisa, wa ibrahim.... al rasoolullah? The basic elementary foundation of Islam is that there is no God but Allah, yet we insist on sticking muhammed's name up there as the basis of our religion, and then people get upset if the westerners call them "mohammedens".
Aahmed, so we shouldn't follow/obey Mohammad? Well, your second paragraph is totally saying that we shouldn't even consider mohammad but only worry about following Quran which says:
[li]Say (O Muhammad): Obey Allah and the[/li]Messenger (Muhammad). But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the
disbelievers. (Aali Imraan 3:32)
[li]O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad) and render not vain your deeds. (Muhammad 47:33)[/li]
[li]Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad) as a witness, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner. In order that you (O mankind) may believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that you assist and honour him, and/li glorify (Allah's) praises morning and afternoon. (Fath 48:8 9)
[li]And whatsoever the Messenger/li gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from
it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment. (Hashr 59:7)
[li]Say (O Muhammad to mankind): If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft [/li]Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Aali Imraan 3:31)
[li]Obey Allah and obey the Messenger,[/li]but if you turn away, he (Messenger Muhammad) is only responsible for the
duty placed on him (i.e. to convey Allah's Message) and you for that placed on
you. If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messenger's duty
is only to convey (the message) in a clear way (i.e. to preach in a plain way).
(Nur 24:54)
I hope, you read and comprehend.. intead of coming up with ridiculous claims and arguments. You say follow ONLY quran, yet you deny its verses saying FOLLOW AND OBEY MOHAMMAD!!! How hypocritical! I sense, great deal of hate in you for "sunnah and hadith and people who compiled them" and will to cause more fitna as was the plan by Rashid Khilafa and Ghulam Ahmed Perviez!
AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: "DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH", THEY SAY "WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS" VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur'an-2:11-12]
Yeah... whatever Serial, you and I will never agree, but you for some reason cannot drop it, it bugs you to no end that I don't believe in what you believe in.
PA: jst a request! Mind answering my question first before you critique Aahmed's beliefs? Because that'll lead to another discussion and again my question will be ignored. Thnkx!
[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
**
Get your story straight now people.. which one is it?? Sitting or Standing??**
[/quote]
You are allowed to drink zamzam water while standing. And it is encouraged to drink ordinary water while sitting.
First of all, aahmed, are you saying that the sayings and teachings of ** Ibrahim (A.S) ** remained ** intact and preserved **, (without any of the sacrifices and efforts that people had to put in to preserve Prophet Muhammad’s (S) Hadeeths) but the teachings and sayings of ** Prophet Muhammad (S) ** could ** NOT ** remain intact and preserved ??
Prophet Muhammad (S) lived around ** 1400 ** years ago, while Prophet Ibrahim lived around ** 7000 years ** ago. Strange, isn’t it ??
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Also, the people ** lost the BASIC teachings ** of Ibrahim (a.s) ** (i.e. Tawheed) ** but managed to ** preserve the remaining ** teachings of ** lesser importance ??? **
If the religion of Ibrahim (a.s) was intact, then ** WHAT WAS THE NEED TO SEND THE Holy Prophet Muhammad (S) ??? **
Please, answer my questions aahmed.
Interesting where the thread is going on..
aahmad, pls also send me a cc, of ur msg related to salat when ur research is over..
It seems that Ahmadies/Qadiyans are just blind followers of Ghulam Mirza(whatever his name was), and they cannot be entitled to be argued..
and it was just a useless effort to promote your beleifs without any homework..
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Pls do not try to defy the Quran and Prophet Muhammad(SAW) or you will not have any favor in this world, except from the non-believers..
that is all..
May ALLAH bless us, with his guidence from Quran, and From Prophet Muhammad (SAW) life and sayings.. Ameen
.::. ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ .::.
Allah-o-Akbar
,_ ,
(O,O)
()
-“–”— To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and call whatever you hit the target
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and what about soda, or juice or Gatorade??
The Mothership is now boarding