Aahmed: I'm sorry, but you completely missed what I asked for. How do I pray? You only posted some verses from Quran stating that Salat was basically revealed to Ibrahim (AS), which I agree, but you still did not tell me how to pray? You only told me not to read durood? That isn't much of help. I'm assuming that the way I now pray is alright with the exception of durood in it?
Besides you keep emphasizing that the way Ibrahim (AS) prayed is the correct method to pray, but you still didn't tell me how to?
Or does it mean that I don't have to pray at all since according to your beliefs prayer of Muhammad (SAW) and Ibrahim (AS) are unknown because they aren't mentioned in Quran and since you don't believe in ahadith you don't have to pray?
OR do I simply recite the verses, which you mentioned above and that'll be my Salat?
I'm cofused!
[This message has been edited by Sadiaa (edited May 01, 2002).]
I apologize Saadia, I didn't understand your question properly, I will post, later in the day how salaat is performed and where you can get that information. At work right now, busy.
i do not recall properly but i think it Surah Toba (Verse 27) which says that "fight with those who do not believe in Allah and the Judgement Day and that which is Forbidden by Allah and His Apostle....."
so what we see here is that Allah declares things HARAAM....
and so does the Apostle....
what Allah has declared Haram is found in the Quran....
and whatthe Apostle declares Haram is found in Hadith....
now if we consider this HADITH as FICTION where do we end up????
we will certainly not be aware of what the Apostle has forbidden and hence be rightful to be punished for NOT BELIEVING IN WHAT THE APOSTLE HAS FORBIDDEN US FROM....
understand???? or e u among those whose hearts have been sealed????
"Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." **Quran(3:147)
Aahmed and co, what do you think about this ahadeeths:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said “If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease.”
AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: “DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH”, THEY SAY“WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS”VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur’an-2:11-12]
Aahmed: alright! I'm waiting for your reply and please do it quickly because these are your beliefs and shouldn't take you long to find the verses, which you use to pray.
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what Allah has declared Haram is found in the Quran.... and what the Apostle declares Haram is found in Hadith
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This is the gist of the problem.
People ASSUMING that the Prophet had an agenda of his own, elaborating and adding on to the message of God, or somehow God got tired of sending the Qur'an over 23 years and sent other revelations in private which the Prophet mysteriously only related to whoever was available without making it a point to get those written down and made public so others could benefit from it.
Read this:
66:1 O Prophet! why do you forbid that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
PakistaniAbroad: the far fetched theory of the Prophet having powers to forbid things on his own falls to pieces
P.S. spare me the honey story.. like all 'asbab-e-nazool' fabrications that one is again some bored Persian's imagination running wild.
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Originally posted by aahmed:
**Saadia, here are some verses to address salaat. If you believe that the Muhammed's sayings are the only place to get information on Salaat, you are dead wrong.
21:72 (Verse regarding Ibrahim) And we granted him Isaac and Jacob as a gift, and we made them both righteous.....
[This message has been edited by aahmed (edited May 01, 2002).]**
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Do you have access to (unmodified) scriptures provided to Ibrahim, Isaac, Jacob AH???? or are you saying to say the prayers/salat as the other followers do like Jews/Christians?
May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right
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Originally posted by aahmed: That's exactly the problem, different translators translate the word in different ways, with different meanings... If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I did NOT translate the word, I used the word itself, hadith....
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why did you not translate this particular word? why use the word as it is and translate ALL other words? just to prove a non-existent "collision"?
Followers of Hadith of Prophet PBUH do not make Haraam or Halaal of which has already been described in Quran.
May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right
PA: alright, so why don't you post what you believe in? Rather the way you think we should pray. I'm sure it'll take him another 24 hours before he replies. (he's prolly in some other timezone)
Secondly when you pray, you recite Durood, which doesn't make sense, Durood is basically sending blessings and salutations to Muhammed. Did Muhammed send blessings and salutations to himself? Not likely... so if the prophet didn't and you do, have you not changed salaat from what the propet did to what you do?
So how do you answer and act out the following ayat:
033.056 Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.
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033.056 Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.
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for the sake of argument, even if we accept this translation, where does the Qur'an say that it's a part of your daily prayers?
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Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
** for the sake of argument, even if we accept this translation, where does the Qur'an say that it's a part of your daily prayers?**
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Before questioning OUR daily prayers, answer the question about YOUR daily prayers and HOW you pray!
Who started bashing hadiths and way the PROPHET prayed? YOU not me.
*logically speaking.. YOU are in violation of Qur’anic references.. I’m in violation of Hadith References.. *
What quranic references? You haven’t brought up any references from quran regarding, HOW TO PRAY. We are not following Ibrahim, Quran was not revealed on Ibrahim, so why quote quranic verses revealed about him?
*whose argument is weightier now?? *
Our argument still on the table and you are introducing another one. Answer the QUESTION which was asked and then move on to a different topic of your choice! By ignoring the question and introducing another one only makes your argument weak!
So, are you going to answer in STRAIGHT FOWARD terms or are you going to follow conjectures and quote verses about prayers and what Hazrat Ibrahim did? I see you ignoring and avoiding the question like in the previous threads.
AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: “DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH”, THEY SAY“WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS”VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur’an-2:11-12]
To me it’s NOBODY"s business how someone else prays. It’s poor sectarians pressed against the wall unable to defend their twisted hadith-based beliefs who cry out for me to produce a way to prayer from the Qura’n instead of arguing the relevant posts.
It happens all the time.. render them defenceless and they seek refuge in the Prayer argument
[Taa-Ha 20:14] Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, therefore serve Me and keep up prayer for My remembrance
PakistaniAbroad: Look closer.. NO Muhammad, no Ibrahim, no nobody.. ONLY Allah’s rememberance.
Hello?? Mr. know it nothing.. what is your religion?? Islam??? wake up!!! It didn’t start with Muhammad.. You claim to follow Muhammad.. look who he himself was ordered to follow:
[Al-Imran 3:95] Say: Allah has spoken the truth, therefore follow the religion of Ibrahim, the upright one; and he was not one of the polytheists.
I will when I choose to, in a manner best suited to my way of discussing the argument. Don’t like it.. just too bad.
[This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited May 01, 2002).]
PA, what about FOLLOWING the prophet and obeying him?
6:153 Verily, this is My way, leading straight: follow it: follow not (other) paths: they will scatter you about from His (great) path: thus doth He command you. that ye may be righteous.
Allah didn’t give you authority to do what you wish in Islam. We must follow the path of Mohammad and must obey him, as ordered by Allah in Quran.
Again, HOW DO YOU PERFORM your namaz? Like prophet did or your own new way? Before even questioning hadiths and how evil they are, you should have thought about these questions and should have come up with some kind of silly answer. Now look you are ignoring and avoiding the question right and left and you have no way but to twist it into something ELSE just so that you can escape the question. Isn’t that shameful!
AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: “DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH”, THEY SAY“WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS”VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur’an-2:11-12]
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Originally posted by Serial Guppy: PA, what about FOLLOWING the prophet and obeying him?
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What do you think the Qur'an is?? it was what the Prophet taught and that's what's to be followed.
Who was Qur'an sent to?? Muslims of Arabia??
Trick question in alternate thinking cuz the people of Arabia were not Muslim but Mushrikeen and others were Jews and Christians who had Allah's Books and they were already following God.
Which is why Allah said "Follow Allah and the messenger" to include the latest message.
Contrary to what you would want to believe this was not to emulate the Prophet in peeing standing up or sitting down.
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Again, HOW DO YOU PERFORM your namaz? Like prophet did or your own new way?
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OH so you were there to record how the Prophet prayed?? or anyone of your favourite hadith narrators?? Your gullibility and lack of research amazes me. You get your undies in a bunch when the US media broadcasts the News but blindly believe everything written in books based on heresay as there research!
Once again.. how we pray and belief in hadiths is NOT related. If I found you other books which showed some contrived way of worshipping Allah would they become a book of commandments for you??
Argue logically.. don't just jump up and down at nothing.
Also give me ONE verse in the Qura'n which specifically says that the method of prayer will be told separately in other books to be written later by the Prophet.. go on.