Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Not true.
Read this link, it says husband is NOT required to pay for illegitimate child’s support.
http://shaukani.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/implications-and-consequences-of-illegitimate-child-walad-al-zina-in-islamic-law-a-classical-view/
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
so basically…a man can accuse his wife of adultery even if he has no proof and that his one testimony is equal to four? got it. :k:
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Ahl-Hadith…
There are Four major Mazhabs…each may have different interpretations..ofcourse Ahl-Hadith have their own…so what’s NEW!..
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Because when she bad mouths and stereotypes males, it includes first and foremost her father and brother/male family members.
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
This is stupid that the woman wouldn't want the baby...huh! Ofcourse any woman who has been a victim of rape would have mental health problems but that doesn't means should be treated as trash,** it is men's duty to give them the respect they deserve by taking them into their nikkah and help them overcome from this nightmare**.
I agree.
Well said. And to all those who are making tall claims that they wont have an issue with marrying a raped women are not being honest people at all.
How can you be so sure of that? It's like Bush accusing Iraq that they have WMD. If they had said that yes, they do, there's the reason to attack them. When they said no, he said "they are lying" and still attacked them.
People who are saying they would marry a rape victim, Do you want them to say what you want to hear? (that no we will not marry a rape victim).
:)...Yes that is the Sharia Law.........Check on Islamicity......ask any Alim....there was a case where married women was fooling around and got pregnant by some othe than her husband....the husband got Divorce from his adulterous wife..........BUT the Judge said Husband is responsible for paying for raising the child......it happened in Kuwait!
You talked about a child that was born as a result of rape but here you talk about a child born as a result of sex with someone other than her husband. You are contradicting yourself.
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Hmm thanks all for your input.. Although few guys have given their opinion but I am glad at their open mindset
Just my few cents to add
Please don't confuse a raped woman to one who commits adultery or pre-marital relationships
I agree with the opinion that it should be choice of the woman to go on with the child or not.
I think it is an insult to the woman to ask her to marry her rapist! Allah forbid if I were in a similar situation I wouldn't spit on the guy's face let alone marry him
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Would you marry a raped man? A lot of guys back home in Pakistan are gay and they engage in hamjinsh parasti. It's not just the women!
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
how can u figure it out huh???
they can deny it easily and ppl r gonna believe them
and no1 asks a man wat he has been doing or do they???
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
NO! you got that totally wrong. THink from your head, why on the earth me or anyone have a problem if someone is fine with marrying a raped women?!? :halo:. I am just saying that its easy said than done. Nowadays where a perfectly normal girl has to go through so much trouble in oder to be “pass” the rishta process how on the earth would a raped women be “fine” to these guys.
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Well it appears that women dont consider raped women as perfectly normal and that they are somehow less than women who have not endured it, not much left to say about our society and its approach then
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Well it appears that women dont consider raped women as perfectly normal and that they are somehow less than women who have not endured it, not much left to say about our society and its approach then
Well ok i didnt use the right words perhaps but my intentions were not that. LIke i have said before its no way a girls fault that she gets raped BUT its something that has happened with her and that label wl never go off her whether you or me like it or not. Why only raped women? What about those women/men who are born disabled, are they not normal? They are na but would they have same kind of rishtas for them as others would?.
It's very easy to misjudge somebody for their intentions but at the end of the day you should try and see what point i am trying to put across and its not as if i have anything against raped women or disabled people but its just the harsh reailty of life.
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Well ok i didnt use the right words perhaps but my intentions were not that. LIke i have said before its no way a girls fault that she gets raped BUT its something that has happened with her and that label wl never go off her whether you or me like it or not. Why only raped women? What about those women/men who are born disabled, are they not normal? They are na but would they have same kind of rishtas for them as others would?.
okay so you did not use the right words as you admitted now. Thats all I was pointing at. Because if those were words that were used were how educated people really think that somehow someone who has gone through such an experience is not normal, then we have a bigger issue in our society than I thought we had. I am glad that you clarified that it was not what you meant
I do however think that physical disabilities are a different issue than someone being subject to this crime. yes there are possibilities of long term emotional trauma that impacts facets of one's life, but that can come from abuse as well, that can come from oppression and poverty as well. To consider women..or men, who have had to deal with such a trauma as something less than normal would be incorrect.
the trauma btw is very real, and it takes years to get over it, whether it as an assault that ended before penetration or after.
It's very easy to misjudge somebody for their intentions but at the end of the day you should try and see what point i am trying to put across and its not as if i have anything against raped women or disabled people but its just the harsh reailty of life.
I was trying to see the point that you were making but your incorrect choice of words came in the way.
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Ahl-Hadith...................:)
There are Four major Mazhabs.....each may have different interpretations..ofcourse Ahl-Hadith have their own......so what's NEW!....:)
The link i gave is quite long article, frankly i haven't read it all, it does mention views of 4 madhabs.
Anyhow, it does not make any sense that husband shud pay for support of child who is not his.
Well actualy on reading the article again, maliki and shafii opinion is that husband is not required to pay for child support. He does not mention opinion of Hanafi and Hanbali.
.
[QUOTE]
Maintenance and Care (Hadaniah) of the Walad Zina
It is clear from the previous discussion of the nasab of the walad zina and walad li’an, that the responsibility for care and maintenance must reside with those to whom the child’s nasab is attributed. Thus just as the nasab of the walad zina and walad li’an belongs with the mother and her family, so does the responsibility for care and maintenance. [37]
In the case of li’an, the Malikis are quoted as saying that a woman who was divorced by her husband through li’an has no right to claim maintenance from her husband, even if she is pregnant, because the inviolability (‘ismah) of the woman has been regarded as having been terminated as a result of the alleged activities which led to li’an. This is because, a woman would be entitled to claim maintenance from her husband as long as her pregnancy is associated with him as the owner of the waiting period (sahib al ‘iddah). Therefore, according to the Malikis, a husband, who accused his wife of committing adultery (mula’in) which had resulted in pregnancy but then he acknowledged paternity of the child, would be liable for hadd punishment for slander (qadhf) but the child could be affiliated to him (al-mula’in). The mother would be liable for providing maintenance of the child before the acknowledgement of paternity was made even though the father was rich (musir) at that time. [38]
On the other hand, the Shafi’is, are reported to have said that if a father disowned the child born to his wife but later acknowledged the child’s paternity, the mother for the child would still be responsible for providing maintenance and care for the child, not the father. [39] Thus, they make the first statement of the husband invalidate his second statement, i.e. his change of mind. This would be similar to the case of the mother having to provide maintenance for the child of li’an who was not acknowledged by her former husband. In the event of the mother providing maintenance for the child without a judge’s sanction and she needed to borrow money from her former husband, the amount paid by her husband would be regarded as the woman’s debt owed to that husband. Thus, if her loan was witnessed, the judge has to adjudicate that the husband has the right to recover the sum from his former wife. [40] Strictly speaking, according to the Malikis, a pregnant woman who has been divorced by li’an cannot be entitled to maintenance because her pregnancy does not affiliate the child to her husband. [41] Therefore, as far as the maintenance of the child is concerned, li’an is based on the situation of a witnessed adultery as if four witnesses had been present. However, if the wife was already six months pregnant when the li’an or the actual witnessing of her adultery took place, the child is entitled to maintenance from the husband. Presumably, this is on the grounds that the belatedness of the li’an of the witnessed adultery after conception has taken place means that there is a strong possibility that the child is his, despite the mother’s later adultery. The reverse situation arises in terms of the husband who had caused the walad zina to be Illegitimate by li’an. The walad zina would not be responsible for providing maintenance for the husband (since he was not his father, according to the law). The responsibility of providing maintenance on the basis of parentage (nasab) could not he applied (irtifa’) as the child has been disowned by its father and was regarded as a child of li’an. There is no legal relationship between the father (!) and the son (!). [42]
According to Abu Hanifah, if a pregnant woman is proved guilty of zina, the hadd punishment cannot be inflicted on her until she has delivered her child. In addition, hadd penalties cannot be carried out on her immediately after delivery unless the new born baby would have someone else able to give suckling. [43]
In all of these cases, there is a strong probability that the woman who has to provide maintenance for the Illegitimate child would not have the means to do so. As the Illegitimate child’s nasab has been associated with the mother, as already mentioned, the mother’s wali and immediate agnates, e.g. father, brother, uncle, cousin would take over the responsibility, because, as we will see later, they are involved in mutual inheritance with the Illegitimate child. Thus, the transference of nasab to the mother would mean that the mother’s wali would become the Illegitimate child’s wali. This would seem to be the theoretical legal background to the maintenance of the Illegitimate child. However, this may not have always actually taken place as the result of the shame that the adultery or fornication of the woman brought to her family. Thus, it seems that the plight of both mother and child might be a life of poverty and perhaps corruption.
The care of the child, which will include suckling it, feeding it and providing it with as comfortable an atmosphere as possible is always the responsibility of the mother in marriage, although her husband is required to provide the means for this to take place. In the case of an Illegitimate child, this duty of care (hadanah) is still required of the mother. In the case of the mother divorced by li’an or those whose Illegitimate children have been born as a result of fornication by consent (i.e. they were unmarried virgins previously), this duty still rest upon the mothers who should be supported by her family and her wali. However, in the case of a woman who has been married being convicted of zina, they are given a remission of two years to suckle the child before they are stoned to death. The responsibility for care (hadanah) will then fall on the woman’s family, particularly her close female relatives, like mother, grandmother and sisters. [44] The Islamic jurists do not seem to have discussed what would happen if the woman’s family rejected her and her child. It seems that, in this case, it should be the duty of bayt al-mal or the state to intervene but this is not explicitly stated.
In cases of a child being born as a result of rape, the jurists appear to be silent on whether the child would be regarded as legitimate or Illegitimate. However, it would seem impossible that the child should be regarded as legitimate. There are two reports in the Muwatta’ explicitly stating what would happen to the woman committing zina by force, i.e. rape (mustakrahah bi al-zina or muqhtasbah), the hadd punishment would be inflicted on her if she could not provide proof that she had really been forced to commit zina but the raped woman is entitled to receive dower (mahr) from the rapist. Al-Muwatta’ reports:
“Malik related to me from Ibn Shihab that Abd al-Malik Ibn Marwan gave a judgement that the rapist had to pay the raped woman her bride price. Yahya said that he heard Malik say, ” What is done in our community about the man who rapes a woman, virgin or non virgin, if she is free, is that he must pay the bride price of the like of her. If she is a slave, he must pay what he has diminished of her worth. The hadd punishment in such cases is applied to the rapist, and there is no punishment applied to the raped woman. If the rapist is a slave, that is against his master unless he wishes to surrender him”. [45]
The second report concerns a woman who is pregnant and claims that she has been raped. Al-Muwatta’ reports:
“Malik said, “The position with us about a woman who is found to be pregnant and has no husband and she says, ‘I was forced’, or she says, ‘I was married’, is that it is not accepted from her and the hadd is inflicted on her unless she has a clear proof of what she claims about the marriage or that she was forced or she comes bleeding if she was a virgin or she calls out for help so that someone comes to her and she is in that state or what resembles it of the situation in which the violation occurred”. He said. “if she does not produce any of those, the hadd is inflicted on her and what she claims of that is not accepted from her”. Malik said, “A raped woman can not marry until she has restored herself by three menstrual periods”. He said, “If she doubts her periods, she does not marry until she has freed herself of that doubt”. [46]
As for the Hanafis, Shafi’is and Hanbalis, Ibn Qudamah says:
“The hadd punishment cannot be inflicted on woman who having no husband or is [not under the ownership of al sayyid gets pregnant. If she claims that she has been forced to commit zina, or has had problematic sexual intercourse (wat' shubhah) or she does not admit committing zina. This is the view of Abu Hanifah and al Shafi'i. In contrast, Malik holds that such a woman should be punished if she is resident and not a stranger. However. if there are signs (that the woman has been forced for zina) like she conies screaming for help or shrieking, (the hadd cannot be inflicted on her)". [47]
Thus, it would appear that Malik seems to be more demanding of evidence for rape than the Hanafis and Shafi’is. It would appear that when the rape is established, the raped woman receives the appropriate dower. This would help towards the maintenance of the child but it would appear that the rapist is escaping much of his responsibility, whether or not the hadd of stoning is administered on him because the child he brought into existence by his violent sexual act is not being paid for out of his wealth.
It is useful to describe the children who are regarded as Illegitimate in Islamic law and who will be responsible for their maintenance. The first category are those born to married mothers who conceived them in a properly witnessed act of adultery. Their mothers will be liable to the hadd punishment of stoning after the children have been suckled. Their maintenance and legal status will then belong to the families of the mothers. The second category is those born to the thayyib, that is a divorcee or a widow, who has not remarried. In her case, she would be condemned to the hadd punishment of stoning, if she was properly witnessed in the act of adultery or if she gave birth to a child outside the possible limits of her ‘iddah. Any child that she gave birth to would become the responsibility of her wali and her family. The third category are children whose Illegitimacy has been made known by li’an. The mothers are not liable to the hadd punishment for witnessed adultery and will be responsible together with their families for the child’s maintenance and care. The fourth category are those who are born to unmarried mothers who give birth to them whether their fornication was witnessed or not. These women will be liable for the hadd punishment of flogging but they will have to continue their duty of care and maintenance for the children and they ought to be supported by their families.
[/QUOTE]
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
A lot of guys back home in Pakistan are gay and they engage in hamjinsh parasti. It's not just the women!
huh? Who gives you people all that input. It isnt true. Hardly anyone in Pakistan is gay... For God's sake dont generalise on unknown facts! We live here and hardly everrrrrrrrrrrrr have we come to know about any gays here. Seriously, yaar come on stop blaming every single wrong in the world on Pakistan and Pakistanis! :(
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
well daffy there r gays in pak
they just dont show cuz they cant:chai:
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Yes Kalli Billi there maybe a few but to generalise and say " A lot of guys back home in Pakistan are gay and they engage in hamjinsh parasti." is not right. its so not fair to pass such an info. Hardly .. hardly 6 - 7% would be not 'a lot of guys.'
I just find it very unfair when on these public forums Desis are humiliated on just no facts & figures at all .. just general information heard through careless whispers!
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Yes Kalli Billi there maybe a few but to generalise and say " A lot of guys back home in Pakistan are gay and they engage in hamjinsh parasti." is not right. its so not fair to pass such an info. Hardly .. hardly 6 - 7% would be not 'a lot of guys.'
I just find it very unfair when on these public forums Desis are humiliated on just no facts & figures at all .. just general information heard through careless whispers!
i know wat u mean and ur right!!
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
Would you marry a raped man? A lot of guys back home in Pakistan are gay and they engage in hamjinsh parasti. It's not just the women!
Yeah i have heard stories bout tht
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
huh? Who gives you people all that input. It isnt true. Hardly anyone in Pakistan is gay... For God's sake dont generalise on unknown facts! We live here and hardly everrrrrrrrrrrrr have we come to know about any gays here. Seriously, yaar come on stop blaming every single wrong in the world on Pakistan and Pakistanis! :(
Seriously there are loads of men in Pak. like that. Most of them ahem... get intimate wiv their friends, sorry but wont comment on this further
Re: Guys..Would you marry a raped woman?
HAHAHA. It is a serious thread but I am sorry i cant stop laughing at the comment made above that " hardly anyone in pakistan is gay". Ofcourse almost all of em remain in the closet all of their lives because of religious and social taboo. Homosexuality between men and women are present in pakistan and denying it will not change the reality of it.These are two links that shed some light on this issue.
http://www.ilga.org/news_results.asp?FileCategory=9&ZoneID=3&FileID=604