Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

[umer.ashraf]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

Yes it is very right. "TCS Boys" (Shoaib and Sami) and "Yammi Yammi" (Afridi) to face "Men in Blue" .

Still unclear about cricket's (or player's) relationship with Oil and tyres. (note: Courier and fast bowlers have one thing in common, and that is fast delivery)

[jatt_mirza]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@umer.ashraf

Yes it is very right. “TCS Boys” (Shoaib and Sami) and “Yammi Yammi” (Afridi) to face “Men in Blue” .

Still unclear about cricket’s (or player’s) relationship with Oil and tyres. (note: Courier and fast bowlers have one thing in common, and that is fast delivery)

[nikhil25]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

can someone explain to me how gimmicky marketing phrases like "Team India" or "Men in Blue" has ANYTHING to do with arrogance or pride?

i don't see any implication of superiority in either phrase, yet i see our Pakistani friends on this board mentioning it frequently.

[fkhan2]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@nikhil25

can someone explain to me how gimmicky marketing phrases like “Team India” or “Men in Blue” has ANYTHING to do with arrogance or pride?

i don’t see any implication of superiority in either phrase, yet i see our Pakistani friends on this board mentioning it frequently.

I agree. I don’t think its arrogance it all. It is infact comical:hehe: and thats what most of us make fun of. Arn’t we allowed to have fun, specially if someone is providing us the opportunity???

[Atlanta]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@jatt_mirza

I think some people are a bit too hung up on this “team india” or “men in blue” thing.Firstly these slogans are created by large MN companies especially cola companies who have invested millions in sponsorships and they have to create hysteria and slogans like these to get their money’s worth. As has been mentioned, money involved with Indian cricket is huge so these things are expected.

Also it is natural that a victory is celebrated vocally and all these superlatives are used more frequently and people tend to go over the top.As they say success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.but that happens everywhere(including pakistan). people will read 10 articles or news items when there team has won and only 1 when they have lost. So take the chill pill bhaiyo.

I’ve said it before, and I will say it again. “team australia” makes perfect sense. “team india” is just a goat wishing it was the lion. I know I know, it started as a gimmick for the MN to make money. But the general public and the media especially has bought in this totally hilarious hype.

[fair_balance]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@fkhan2

I agree. I don’t think its arrogance it all. It is infact comical:hehe: and thats what most of us make fun of. Arn’t we allowed to have fun, specially if someone is providing us the opportunity???

Hum… I remember when Indian first started huddle in WC 2003, most of You Pakistani made fun of it. Some one even called it gayish. But moment Pakistani team started doing it. No one bothered to talk about it. Suddenly it became hip.

Similar thing will happen with ‘Team India’. Moment you guys do somethign similar it will become hip again.

Actually, in this case, there is something to learn for PCB. Learn how to market and make money and then pour this money back to cricketter or domestic infrastructure.
This is pure smart business.

[fkhan2]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@fair_&_balance

Hum... I remember when Indian first started huddle in WC 2003, most of You Pakistani made fun of it. Some one even called it gayish. But moment Pakistani team started doing it. No one bothered to talk about it. Suddenly it became hip.

Similar thing will happen with 'Team India'. Moment you guys do somethign similar it will become hip again.

Actually, in this case, there is something to learn for PCB. Learn how to market and make money and then pour this money back to cricketter or domestic infrastructure. This is pure smart business.

F&B, I think you are not trying to understand the real point of discussion. Yes I know that the huddle thing was initiated by Indians and not Pakistan. And I am not making fun of that. I think it was a unique concept to do it after every wicket since australians use to do it but only after a victory.
But this MEN IN BLUE and TEAM INDIA slogans fades away so quickly in a season and than comes back again after a victory and than fades away again. This has been happening for the last atleast 3 years. Don't you think it is comical. Don't you think that it is something which is the part of the fanaticism which is there in India and to a certain extent in Pakistan, which all mature fans condemn, where you are ready to worship a player after a breath taking performance and the next day want to hang him because of his poor performance.
Believe me it has nothing to do with India. I would do the same if it happens in Pakistan. Infact we do it often when we make fun of our crickets fan being immature and fanatic, that they need to grow up and take cricket as a game and not a matter of life and death. I think there should be a boundary between passion for the game and extremism.

[fair_balance]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@fkhan2

F&B, I think you are not trying to understand the real point of discussion. Yes I know that the huddle thing was initiated by Indians and not Pakistan. And I am not making fun of that. I think it was a unique concept to do it after every wicket since australians use to do it but only after a victory.
But this MEN IN BLUE and TEAM INDIA slogans fades away so quickly in a season and than comes back again after a victory and than fades away again. This has been happening for the last atleast 3 years. Don’t you think it is comical. Don’t you think that it is something which is the part of the fanaticism which is there in India and to a certain extent in Pakistan, which all mature fans condemn, where you are ready to worship a player after a breath taking performance and the next day want to hang him because of his poor performance.
Believe me it has nothing to do with India. I would do the same if it happens in Pakistan. Infact we do it often when we make fun of our crickets fan being immature and fanatic, that they need to grow up and take cricket as a game and not a matter of life and death. I think there should be a boundary between passion for the game and extremism.

There is nothing comical. This is how fans reacts. With one loss of pakistan we see umpteen threads where people demands dropping of some player and cuss others. Then everythign changes after 2nd win. Everyone start praising everything. Didnt we used to see ‘Green Machine’ which will popup after every win and then get lost after the next loss. You guys are finding it comical because it is Indian.

[fkhan2]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@fair_&_balance

There is nothing comical. This is how fans reacts. With one loss of pakistan we see umpteen threads where people demands dropping of some player and cuss others. Then everythign changes after 2nd win. Everyone start praising everything. Didnt we used to see 'Green Machine' which will popup after every win and then get lost after the next loss. You guys are finding it comical because it is Indian.

Since you don't find it comical, does that mean you are endorsing this behavoir of cricket fans. Does that also mean that you think that it is perfectly normal to have this in-consistent mentality where you praise a player in one match and bash the same one in the next game. Don't you think that there is something which is called "maturity" in terms of cricketing sense, which a mature fan should possess.

[fair_balance]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@fkhan2

Since you don’t find it comical, does that mean you are endorsing this behavoir of cricket fans. Does that also mean that you think that it is perfectly normal to have this in-consistent mentality where you praise a player in one match and bash the same one in the next game. Don’t you think that there is something which is called “maturity” in terms of cricketing sense, which a mature fans should possess.

No..It is not normal. But then every fan do it. This is what makes sport so great.
And if every fan does it, why pick on one group. Thats why I gave you example of huddle.

[fkhan2]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@fair_&_balance

No..It is not normal. But then every fan do it. This is what makes sport so great.
And if every fan does it, why pick on one group. Thats why I gave you example of huddle.

Hmmm… if fanaticism makes cricket great than Calcutta incident where crowd booed the whole indian during the 4th ODI agasint SA should be well apprecaited I guess. Or burning effigies of chappel or inziman/woolmer should be an admirable act as well.
No, not everybody does it. And whenever it happens, it is not good for the game, but I guess that the way it is in our part of the world.

And picking on one group? merey bhai I am not picking on Indians just becasue they are indians. Read below what I said earlier

@fkhan2

Believe me it has nothing to do with India. I would do the same if it happens in Pakistan. Infact we do it often when we make fun of our crickets fan being immature and fanatic, that they need to grow up and take cricket as a game and not a matter of life and death. I think there should be a boundary between passion for the game and extremism.

[fair_balance]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@fkhan2

Hmmm… if fanaticism makes cricket great than Calcutta incident where crowd booed the whole indian during the 4th ODI agasint SA should be well apprecaited I guess. Or burning effigies of chappel or inziman/woolmer should be an admirable act as well.

yaar.. there is difference between violene on ground anddoing what happened in Calcutta. But promoting your player and then dimissing them after one bad performance is something every fan does. It is not special to Indians. No body hurting anyone or burning effigy when they talk about ‘Team India’ or ‘Men in blue’. There is a difference.

And picking on one group? merey bhai I am not picking on Indians just becasue they are indians. Read below what I said earlier

I didnot say you did ii . But there are many on this forum who do this regularly.

[awaismisri]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

i usually dont like runnin my mouth bout how we're gna trash india cuz im kinda superstitous and worry i mite jinx the pakistan team...so ill jus keep it shut till the end of the series :)

o and i think bob is a better coach cuz :

--more expereince wit the proteas
--he's turned around the perfromances of more than just a patoo (pathan)...hes turned around afridi, malik, shoaib, and i have a feeling he's played a big time role of akmal's and younis khan's batting becoming top class

greg chappel on the other hand has to deal with gnaguly right now...he should take a leaf from bob's page and deal with ganguly the same way shoaib was dealt wit...drop him for a year and then bring him back in...LOL

[fkhan2]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@fair_&_balance

yaar.. there is difference between violene on ground anddoing what happened in Calcutta. But promoting your player and then dimissing them after one bad performance is something every fan does. It is not special to Indians. No body hurting anyone or burning effigy when they talk about ‘Team India’ or ‘Men in blue’. There is a difference.

Well I wanted you to see the broader picture and just not consider this discussion about the use of slogan only. I said that immature fans have inconsistent mentality. Do you think that a person who promote the players and than immediately dismiss them would be different from one who does violence at Eden Garden or burn effigies? I think they belong to the same group. They just do it on different levels. One doing it on a smaller level by praising and bashing a player verbally on a forum and other doing it on a bigger scale in front of TV camera.
What do you think the people who are invloved in violence or burning effigies do when Indian team is doing good? They chant TEAM INDIA.
And it happens in Pakistan as well but I guess with a slightly smaller intensity.
I remember people burning effigies of Pakistan team including inzi’s and woolmer’s when they lost to Australia 3-0. earlier this year. And than the same people gave an overwhelming reception when Pakistan came back from Indian tour 3 months later.

[jatt_mirza]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@Atlanta

I've said it before, and I will say it again. "team australia" makes perfect sense. "team india" is just a goat wishing it was the lion. I know I know, it started as a gimmick for the MN to make money. But the general public and the media especially has bought in this totally hilarious hype.

I fail to see how using TEAM INDIA makes indian team look like a lion????????.Why should it matter to anyone except indian team?? Why on earth should only Australia be using any terms like these. It has nothing to do with how well a team is doing on the field. It's all about doing everything to get the morale of a team up and make them feel like a TEAM, not a bunch of individuals. As a proof you can go back to the genesis of TEAM INDIA term and the huddle in the world cup 2003.India was down in the dumps just before and in the early stages but came back to acheive what we know they did. pakistan didn't do too well in the world cup and afterwards the next thing we know, adopted the slogan TEAM PAKISTAN and started the huddle (not to mention they improved as a TEAM,they were always good as individuals).I hope you see the point.

Now tomorrow if Zimbabwe and Bangladesh want to do something to boost there morale, should they shy away because their team is not too good on the field????
And I don't find anything hilarious in fans worshipping players when they win and curse them when they lose,it's just normal and happens everywhere. ( even in Pakistan, would you believe it!!!)

[jatt_mirza]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

@fkhan2

Well I wanted you to see the broader picture and just not consider this discussion about the use of slogan only. I said that immature fans have inconsistent mentality. Do you think that a person who promote the players and than immediately dismiss them would be different from one who does violence at Eden Garden or burn effigies? I think they belong to the same group. They just do it on different levels. One doing it on a smaller level by praising and bashing a player verbally on a forum and other doing it on a bigger scale in front of TV camera.
What do you think the people who are invloved in violence or burning effigies do when Indian team is doing good? They chant TEAM INDIA.
And it happens in Pakistan as well but I guess with a slightly smaller intensity.
I remember people burning effigies of Pakistan team including inzi’s and woolmer’s when they lost to Australia 3-0. earlier this year. And than the same people gave an overwhelming reception when Pakistan came back from Indian tour 3 months later.

Well there you go, I think you answered urself. These fanatic fans are everywhere, especially in India and Pakistan, where people tend to be extra emotional about cricket (ask wasim akram). Regarding media, I have read zillions of articles where "team india " was referred to in a sarcastic way when India lost or played badly. It beats me how my paki friends miss those and only come across the ones where TEAM INDIA is being praised:confused: ( or is it coz those articles irk them the most?)

My humble advise is, if you can’t fathom this, why the hell do you bother about what indian media is doing??? stick to the impartial pakistani media (where is it?) instead. After all indian media will cater to INDIAN people.

Also don’t make fun of anything pakistan is going to adopt the next day (TEAM PAKISTAN and HUDDLE). had it being the reverse, there would have been several threads opened about Indians being copycats:D

[vineshvk]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

^ I thought Team India was a good thing. Indians were taking too much into cricket that cricket had became a kind of life. So when indian cricket team was touring it was like going for a battle or so and the country itself is going for that battle. But now there is a differentiation that only "Team India " is going to play a cricket match.:) and the country will survive even if they loose or win.

[Some1]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

I have no issues with naming the Indian Team "TEAM INDIA". After all, teams (in various sports) regardless of their standing are often given jazzy names - and it serves an important marketing purpose....eg. in NBA....Portland Trail Blazers, Detroit Pistons, Chicago Bulls etc...

The same reason why builders in Mumbai name their apartment buildings with such blissful names as "WHISPERING MEADOWS" even though the property may be standing next to a trashfill, a slum colony or a horn-blaring intersection.

I only have issues with how the Indian Cricket Team is portrayed by the Indian Media....they make it seem as though we are world beaters even when reporting superficial victories...and many times they also prematurely put mediocre players on the pedestal only to dismantle it later. The reason I brought up "TEAM INDIA" and "MEN IN BLUE" is because these terms are often overdone by the country's top two TABLOIDS - Times of India and Hindustan Times. Having said that, I agree with Vinesh that "The Hindu" in the South does more mature reporting.

[dogger]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

this ll worst series for india................this is not 2004.......when paki selection commitee selected worst team in entire pak history..

[Some1]

Re: Greg Chappel vs Bob Woolmer : The coming showdown

^thanks for the important heads-up.