Greater Pashtunistan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
121

i admit that pashtuns r well integrated into pakistan. people of my area r loyal to pak bcoz operation is not carried out there but the people of swat, waziristan and bajaur hav bcome fierce enemies of pak. anger against pak is at peak now.
u may b happy to b called khocha, akhroat, sudkhor in pak but i do not want to b called so
yes to greater pakhtunistan

122

Afghan has always been synonymous with pushtuns then how come you expect tajiks,hazaras,uzbecks,nooristanis to call themselves afghans.

123

Bro, you should do a search on this message board to see how many times I have stood up for Pakhtunkhwa. My family originates from Mohmand, and they settled in Pekhawar, so I don't doubt what your saying.

Let them *try *to call me khocha, akhroat, or sudkhor to my face and then we'll see what happens. Don't let these internet lions bother you.

It is a well known fact that Pakhtuns have contributed so much for Pakistan from giving their lives to Islamic Pakistan to doing the most backbreaking work, but yet racism still lives on. I think it is unacceptable that NWFP is STILL the official name for Pakhtunkhwa. I think that is completely unIslamic for the Pakistani Military to carry out operations in Waziristan, Bajaur etc. for their American masters. I think disgraceful all Pakhtuns are classified as backward, fundamentalists. But I also believe in Pakistan as a Muslim homeland - a place that has room for Pakhtuns.

124

Afghan=Pakhtun in the ethnic sense. If the Tajiks, Hazaras etc had agreed to see themselves as Afghan NATIONALS even during King Zahir Shah's time, I assure you that the Pakhtuns of Afghanistan would have accepted them as fellow citizens.

The relations were soured with their claim of this mythical dari speaking "Khorasan" and trying to displace Pakhtun claims on the land, which again begs the question: If you live in Afghanistan yet hold greater loyalties Tajikistan, then don't bring up any claims to the land. I categorically reject any dissolution of the Afghan state. Btw, I am saying the same for Pakistan.

125

Pak one , tso faida nishta de tu dagho khalko sara wakht barbaday.
i have encountered many punjabis and by chance every one has chinjay in them, all they hav do is to start making fun of u. never in my mind came first that they r people from punjab, but they wil make u remind that they r punjabis and we r pathans. Now u wil answer me tht there bad people in every society but why a pashtun constantly face these type of people?

126

Ya you are right , but I think the Naming issue at this CRITICAL SITUATIONS is not that much big , we have so many other burning issues.... The TERRORISM to encounter and the NAME of TERRORISTS pukhtoons.

The Army Operation in Wazirastan, SWAT , BAJUR , MEHMAND , KHYBER and other areas of Trible Belt is totally unislamic and unconstituional as well.
You can see one debate on the same Forum informing us that DRONES attackes are being operated from with in Pakistan and parallely you can see that our Previous and present Gov't were saying that these attackes are being carried out by Americans from outside the Borders....... I think it is THE MOST BURNING ISSUE in Pakistan........... For EVERY PAKISTANI.... who is Pukhtoon, Punjabee, Sindhee or Balochi.

Who are these some GENERALS , POLITICIANS , BEUROCRATES who are selling PAKISTAN and our National Interests...... ?
Why LAL MASJID operation was carried out?
Who assissinated Banzir Bhutto ?
Who were responsible for 12 may 07 killings in Karachi?
Who killed Akbar Bughtee?
Who were behind the aeroplane crash of PAKISTAN ARMY High RANK OFFICIALS in KOHAT?
Who were behind the attacks on Marriote?
Who were behind the attacks on Pakistan Ordinance Factory ?
Who disgraced DR.A.Q Khan?

and many other very important questions who this LAND OF GREATER PAKISTAN Asks from EVERY LOYAL PAKISTANI........

The answer is VERY SIMPLE........ We , every one should understand our RESPONSIBILITY..... it is not TIME to IGNIT other fires ..... It is TIME extinguish the EXISTING FIRE.

127

Engrashmi wrora, people selected ANP for renaming province, so it is obligatory 4 ANP to accomplish its promise with people. its a simple matter but anti-pakhtuns always make things hard 4 us.

remember that it is responsibity of governament to protect its citizen. but they r instead assisting US in drone attacks.

ether we r most loyal or most insensitive people on earth

128

No Brothers!(and Sisters)

Pakthunistan is indeed bad news if they want to establish complete independance. Is a Pathan myself i favour some freedom in that we should run our own territorial affairs. However if they Want to be independant and join with our opressesors. America and co then we should stop them.
If they will take our side then let them do so. If they stick with us fine. If not they better keep our side. Pakistan itself is becoming ever more secular. As a devout Muslim i want an Islamic state. If Paktunistan offers me an i i'm sorry but they have my support. What i don't want is for them to ally with America. Pathans are proud people they deserve some independance personally these borders mean nothing for me they are all Muslims the durand line is just a colonial fault line.
We must ally ourselves with fellow muslim nations. Dont want to sound like bin-laden here buit it makes strategic sense. With a quarter of a million Americans on our western frontier and countless indians on the eastern side, Pakistan is acutely vulnerable. Even if we could beat any American invasion what about India they may be poor quality troops but they do have numbers. Back in the day we could count on china for help..... not so today.
Personally i would like to see a Pro Pakistani Pathan state between Amertican held Afghanistan and free Pakistan. This small state could act as a buffer zone. I am aware of the tribes that hold this region the Wazirs, Yusufzais, Adam Khel, Afridis they are all devout muslims even if the taleban booted them up a bit they are decent fighters. if we let them handle their own areas it would free Pakistani troops to deal with the eastern frontier.
These tribes are true Muslims many of them Sunni they would do no harm to an Islamic government however if any Muslim tried to push them they don't like it. It's not new even Akbar the great of India tried to control the Yusufzai tribe and sent old birbal and his men to sort them out and collect tax. They sent Birbals head back to Akbar saying they would pay no tax except to Allah. Now why is Pakistan doing Americas dirty work by taking on these people who afterall are Muslims? Trust me before 2001 relations were fine the tribes hated the taleban but they were still our friends. But becuase America dare not enter the badlands of these tribes and risk casualties it's making pakistan sort them out. No wonder the tribes now want to beat up Pakistan. Pathans believe in revenge Badalaah.they won't be stopped unless we leave them alone. If we tell America to sod off and fight it's own war on these tribes then we'll see who's so tough.
Many of you are too young to remeber when pakistan gained independance and the first kashmir war followed.....thousands of Afridi tribesmen poured into Kashmir and gave the indian Amry a proper pasting. The only thing they asked in thanks for this effort was to be able to loot the Hindu territories and leave the lands to Pakistanis.....Hence Azad Kashmir.
Before lashing at them ask yourself this have we as Pakistanis ever traded with the Afghan tribes?

129

Not just americans but the afghan government itself has rejected peace deals in the tribal areas on many occasions on the grounds that these are havens for talibal and alqaeda terrorists.

130

dont you yourself constantly remind people your pathan? you yourself constantly puts it in other peoples face so of course people may react. maybe you should be a little humble about your self and your origins and you would not get a negative reaction.

its more the pathan politicians who are constantly going on about the pakhtun nation more than anything.

maybe one should look in the mirror first before pointing fingers?

131

Who are you to Console to Pukhtoons...?

and Let them be independent state?

Do you hear only FEW pukhtoons to be BOSSES for all the LOYAL PAKISTANIS
No Pukhtoons are going to SEPARATE or wishes so.....

These may your DREAM.

132

Re: Greater Pashtunistan

[quote]
No Brothers!(and Sisters)

Pakthunistan is indeed bad news if they want to establish complete independance.

If they stick with us fine. If not they better keep our side.

Pakistan itself is becoming ever more secular. As a devout Muslim i want an Islamic state. If Paktunistan offers me an i i'm sorry but they have my support.

if we let them handle their own areas it would free Pakistani troops to deal with the eastern frontier.

No wonder the tribes now want to beat up Pakistan. Pathans believe in revenge Badalaah.they won't be stopped unless we leave them alone
[/quote]

It is batter to Keep your Mouth shut i f you cant say anything batter, Only Bcoz of People like you Pakistan is in Crises, they day people like you will start thinking with your mind intact , will be they day Pakistan will start Progressing,
We Didnt gave countless Sacrifices So some fanatic Idiot Come to us 7 say we dont want to live with you , you dont have any Right to say such Thing, we are Pakistanis & we will live as Pakistani's No one Can Break this chane of unity of ours, Specially People like you who are just thinking of Breaking Pakistan........... REMEMBER IT WELL

133

Some fair points.

OK im a pathan Muslim how's that? In answer to brother thejoke. The reason i pointed that out was not to brag, but to point out why i would know what i know....seriously before you can understand someones views it's a good idea to see who they are! Name your own tribe brother. I respect all Muslims but i would like to know i was speaking to a person who knows something first.

To brother engrshami: Your right who am i to console people? But more to the point have you got any better idea how to save Pakistan. Don't you know 80,000 of our Pakistani soldiers are fighting the tribe of Wazirs in thier land of Waziristan. Our casualty rate there is shocking if you campare it with those of the Americans in Afghanistan. It's not becuase the Pak army is weaker its's becuase the Wazirs are far more powerfull than the taleban and Al-Qaida. The Wazirs back in 1897 launched a revolt that smacked the colonial British all the way back to Peshawar. Are you saying we should make this warlike and fiercely independant race part of pakistan? They are part of Pakistan! We just send our Pak army to rape and batter them so they don't fight America. If you were bombed by Pak Army what would you do? I wouldn't shoot at the flag my fathers died fighting for so i would ask to be free. Anyway Hindustan Before the colonial period was never a United country anyway. It was split between Muslims and Hindus. Each Muslim ruler held his own state and while some fought each other most linked toghether against the hindus. Mohammed Ali Jinnah may Allah bless him created Pakistan from several regions. Do you know why we are fighting in Kashmir?
Let me tell you Pakistan would have (under Jinnah) also encompassed Hyderabad Deccan as well as Bangaal and the Mople South of India? But how many of those areas are independant muslim states eh?
Our leaders are not willing to give in order to recieve thats the problem.

Brother asif86 hit the nail on the head. That is preciscely the point. Can any American prove that Al Qaida actually has any foothold in this region. They are simply labelling everyone terrorist. I've had enough it's like a new warmonger excuse to launch open Chevauchee's into Pakistan. And here we are arguing why these people want' to seperate. Brothers this is the same problem in the south of our country! The only way we can save Pakistan is by uniting it? For what good is a country united by force. We should use love and persausion to intice our brothers to join us. Central government keeps using force to unite the provinces.

Tell me why so called Punjabi's deeply hate Pathans and vice versa?

Can you tell me why Sindhi's are also portrayed negatively?

Well the divisions go back for at least a hundred years. All Muslims have a spiritual home in the land of Hijaz (this is the original and pure name of the sacred strip of land on the western fringe of the Arabian desert between Medinah in th north and Makah in the South)

However many of you can tell me how Muhammed bin Qasim led his noble Arab expedition into hindustan in the dark ages. This was followed by subsequent forays until the land has many races in it. The differntials come in when the British played off these people against one another. Hence originally Bengaal sepoys crushed the Southern Muslims like Tipu Sultan. Then the sepoy forces of Southern madras and bengal struck Punjab and then Punjab sepoys crushed thier nieghbours.
I have traced my lineage back 911 years and the blood in my viens flows from many sources. I am sorry if i seem Anti-Pakistani i am not. However i must emphasise this final line. In the spirit of Tarik ibn Ziad i must now draw the line at this specific point.....let me draw you attention to these questions.

Ask yourselves are you Muslim?

What do you do? (proffesionaly, is it Islamic?)

What do you believe?

As a fellow Muslim am i not your Brother?

Is our Pakistani government truly Islamic?

Have we changed any of our oppresive laws and rules since the kaffirs British left us back in 1947? (let me tell you the same laws stand as i have been held by them and know them better than most from first hand experience.)

Finally will you let Pakistan's government bow to the west.......OK we may not have definitive proof of our leaders treachery but if word got out would you topple them?

Finally and this is the crunch, if Pakistan was merely a muslim country in name only, would you not stand against this violation of your faith?

Let me point out that the great war of independance in 1857 in which the whole of Hindustans Muslim warriors took on the might of the British and thier allies (this is the greatest rebbelion in history) actually fought for sepration. Remember the british United India. Never before had Hindustan belonged to one person or empire no less than fifty separate states had managed to exhist relatively peacefully until then. the British also united India and gave muslims a better life than evel the moghuls. So why did the Muslims rebbel.....The call was simple Muslims had been dethroned Kaafirs had taken over. No matter how bad a Muslim is as long as he is a muslim it's fine kaafir rule can never be accepted.

What's wrong with independant states allied to Pakistan if the Pakistan Army can sign a treaty with our unrully tribes and get them to take up arm's against America what wrong is that. I'ts better than seeing Muslim kill Muslim.

This has been a very long post i suppose but it's what you get when you have to talk about issues that are centuries old.

I reiterrate i will never break Pakistan however if Pakistan itself wants to break itself then i will have to create a new pakistan. I dont really care if pakistan i create is a grave 6 by two feet becuase as long as it's a muslim state i'm happy.

134

Re: Greater Pashtunistan

^^ Please Spare us with that, we have already had enough , You are not somenne to tell us What should we do, you have to make yourself Right first & learn the Meaning of a Word called UNITY,

135

Khorasan historically existed in present day parts of afghanistan,central asia and iran.The language of the khorasani civilisation was persian and even the urbanised pushtuns in afghanistan speak farsi/dari as first language.

Timepass- December 2012
136

kha teek da. But wrora why waste the energy on such people? We don't need to be sensitive about people who have nothing to do but put us down. Today the world calls us terrorist, can we shut their mouths? Of course not. What we need is unity, education, healthcare and development - a real change where Pakhtuns have more economic power in Pakistan. de pakhto kanai po obo ke hum na wrastegi.

137

Bro,. its not that the naming issue being critical at this time, but its affront to the Pukhtuns that even after 60+ years, even after we have proven our loyalty to the Pakistani state - that we can not a simple name change made because Pakistani policy makers are afraid that Pakhtunkhwa will lead to independence.

You raise some very good points. Let me add that this whole mes started after Pakistan did an about face and dumped their child, the Taliban. By supporting this illegal Amriki/NATO occupation of Afghanistan of course this enraged Talib supporters and others in Pakistan who saw Muslims being butchered. The Pakistani state, instead of seeking political solutions went for the heavy handed approach of attacking civilian areas, causing so much destruction, displacing thousands of people in FATA have made the situation much worse. No one is supporting the actions of the Taliban here, but the fact that Pakistan is hurting its own people and doing Americas bidding is the real issue here.

i remember many months back, I had been discussing this very matter with some people who thought that the Pakistani army would crush the militants and even back then I had said that we needed a political solution for this mess. Go ahead and do a search for it.

We areready to take on the responsibilities but before we move ahead, let me be clear to all Pakistanis: if you are going to say that Pakhtuns have monopolyon terror, then let me remind you that the rest of the world thinks that Muslims= terrorists, so how are you better off by blaming Pakhtuns?

138

Oh please, as if the Afghan govt has any credibility. Total American stooges. The mayor of Kabul is going to be dumped by his Amriki masters.

139

Battle in Bajaur seems to be going well... The fighting has spread to places we expected it to spread, namely other parts of FATA. Swat issue came up at the same time and was made worse by the support Fuzzylulu recieved from the FATA terrorists. But other then that, its what we expected.

Maatam
140

The Pak Army didnt launch the operation until it was forced to do so... Im sorry but Psychotic Mullahs dictating terms to the state is unacceptable to anyone. And it would have happened anywhere, be it in Swat or Punjab.

Anyways, that is apparently over, as the govt has signed a peace deal in order to save human life.

As for you being insulted by Punjabis, I recall an incident in my childhood where I was called a "Punjabi Daal Khor" by a bunch of Pashtuns I had never seen before, near my own village no less, in Punjab.
I also recall being called "black" by some oh so pure Afghan Pashtuns...

We laugh about it now, because its not a big deal...Apparently making fun of others isnt something common to Punjabis, so spare me the tears.
I think you have to let go of your pride and learn to take it easy.