Greater Pashtunistan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
81

Mr/Mis Kori fudamentalist and ideological Islam and extrimism are intimately linked with the concept of Pakistan so much so that it has become its genetic ingredient...that is why it has almost become impossible to disentangle Pakistan from fundametalism interpretation of Islam ...and there is a reason for it...Pakistan literally means "land of the faithful or pure"...and Islamabad means "abode of Islam"...more than that, the birth of Pakistani nation is ascribed to Mohmmad Bin Qasim steping foot in Sindh ...such is the theocratic and Islamist basis of Pakistani state...

Pashtuns on the other hand have been existing for millinia but never tried to define themselves theocratically even though they established mighty empires in Iran, Afghanistan, and India...In fact they never felt the need for that because they had their own robust identity based on their ethnicity, culture, and history...Islamic Utopia and the Islamist sunbversive ideologies like Deoband, Jummath -i-Islami, Tabligh, Tanzeem-i-Islami, etc are the product of Indian Muslim Culture and a consequence of the identity crisis in the Indian people that had converted to Islam over the past one millinuim due to the conquest of Muslim invaders including Pashtuns from the north...it spread to our areas thanks the Western geopolitics and its strategy to create an Islamist state and use it to counter communist ideology and expansion...Our people had to bear to consequences of all this geopolitics...

Our people had twice (in 1937 and 1946) elected secular Khudai Khidmatgars allied with Congress before the partition of the subcontinent...that indicates what our society was before partition and what it became as a result of West's Pakistan project...

I hope you look into the ethnic origin of Gen Zia, Gen Hamid Gul, Gen Akhtar Abdur Rahman, Gen Javed Nasir, Gen Mahmood Ahmad (who wired 20,0000 dollars to 9/11 terrorists), Mashaf Ali Mir, Gen Aziz Khan, Khalid Khawaja, Mazharul Islam Abbasi, Jaish-i-Mohammad, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, Sipah-i-Sahaba, Lashka-i-Jhangvi, Lashka-i-Taiba...all these are architect of the ideologies of subversion and doctrine of Jehad...

And don't taunt me with naswar...that is more decent than your pan...which you spit everywhere ...and I bet that you people cannot wear your national dresss i.e. dhoti in any formal setting whereas I can wear mine (shalwar Kamis)...why is this dhoti so un-aesthetic by the way...?

Anyhow, despite the problems I will still not like to be part of south asian society for i have travelled there and have found the scenes of humanity to be very repelling...the farther you go towards the east the uglier it becomes...this is my honest opinion and observation...

anyhow, our aim is to establish a practicable sate not necessarily on the model of Turkey ...i think you sould go your own way to join the cousins accross Wahga or whatever you want to do...leave our backwrd culture to us...

Timepass / Uncle Ehsan's Baithak - August 2012
82

Kori, leave our backward culture to ourselves and do whatever you want to do regarding your culture, identity, and future...have pride in what is your origin...the problem is you people can't even do that...the very idea of being Indian scares/repels you...

As for not pulling along with neighbour, Pakistan (effectively Punjab's Army) has so far fought 4 wars with India (all initiated by Pakistan) and one covert war with Afghanistan...We Pashtuns on the other hand have defended ourselves whoever has invaded our lands with dignity and honor...

ALL GUPPIES SINGING COMPETITION!!!
83

Thats not true because Mr jinnah never wanted pakistan to be theocratic or fundamentalist state.

Timepass / Uncle Ehsan's Baithak - August 2012
84

**
kori, I dont not what you problem is but get this.
If whole pakistan had some of characteristic of pashtoon(NON TALIBAN) society, It would make it worth living.
1-respect for even poor ppl.
2-honesty under even difficult financial position.
3-integrity.
4-pride for being what they are.
**

85

Go into retirement old man, you're facts are as twisted as your knowledge. Do you even know the difference between Hazarajat and Hazara division.

86

Burqaposhx - the criminals are most likely tribals but they are being supported by those west of the border and organisations who feel the need to destabilise Pakistan. There is a media war against pakistan and its nukes. Theres no real threat to Pakistans nukes from the militants but the media is presenting this scenario.
If hey are neo-Hindus then surely India has a hand in it? If India, a foreign country has power in Afghanistan then surely its up to the Afghan Gov and its props ie the Americans/NATO/ISAF to make sure India does not cause any mischief to its arch rival?
A politician erects his own billboard poster not the destruction of Pakistan. These billboards are treason and must have taken time to be erected. You say if the area goes up in flames it will benefit Al Qaeda who cna hide there - your very wrong - it will just invite an American/NATO/ISAF presence and slowly but surely the terrorists will spread over pakistan and ultimately a collapse in state authority and elimination of nuclear assets. Then it will either be no more pakistan or a pakistan under NATO/ISAF/USA troops and used against China.

LOTD - i dont think the ANP are in any way an effective party - what exactly have they given or done for Pashtuns? The one thing they may achieve this year is changing the name - once that happens they wont feel bothered to do anything else. The ANP are not a moderate party - they are secular left-wingers whose policies would be rejected by most Pashtuns. Secularism is not the answer to Pakistans problems. Its just the opposite extreme to Shariah law. The ANP are just as guilty of prostituting democracry, inefficiency as all the rest. I would agree though the west needs the ANP and in a way pakistan is seen as a liability in its present state but then again Europe seens America the same but still puts up with it.
The worlds powers are looking for a collapse of Pakistan in some form or another - theres many major signs:-
1. the assassination of benazir - she led pro-Pakistani Sindhis and her murder saw the worst violence in pakistan ever I believe. Her murder infuriated Sindhis
2. The MQM rivalry against all others - this has slowly risen over the past 18 months again and unrest in Karachi is predicted
3. the BLA and its support from via Afghanistan
4. the spread of militancy and lawlessness in FATA and NWFP
5. not a part of internal Pakistan but in Indian-held Kashmir theres more violence this year.
6. pakistans armed forces are being painted in a very bad light by the media and musharafs last 2 years in power have not exactly made it hard for them
LOTD - i disagree with you - punjab may not have a problem if pakistan disintegrates, which Inshallal it wont. Hazara would never join a Pakhtun country and half the the Terbela Dam and whatever its benefits would go to them. Hazara people are more likely to join punjab than a Pakhtun country. If Punjab does rejoin India then any Greater Pakhtunistan/Afghanistan would have live with india, who lets face it desire the whole of pakistan. Sindh would be at odds to - they would suffer from punjab and pakhtunisan taking water from the rivers - imagine if punjab and pakhtunistan did create the Kalabagh Dam - they wont need Sindhs consent unless there is an International Water treaty.

Kori what you say is really offensive and derogatory - you may have some valid points but people like you dont exactly help the situation. The pashtuns have to ask themselves why play into the hands of people? its an important question I guess. What you want is for the Pashtuns to lose their culture and traditions and adopt jeans etc. One of the problems of the muslim world is the battle to stop western culture taking over. You would need to adjust and create new provinces because ethnic boundaries are not reflected by the 4 provinces.

LOTD your very wrong when you say fundamentalism and ideological islam are a genetic ingredient in Pakistan. You dont have these people trying to enforce Shariah Law in Sindh, Balochistan, Punjabi, Seraiki belt. Kori is right to an extent - many punjabis dont take time out to pray even. Have you ever travelled on a bus? its always pashtun passengers who would stop the bus journey to pray. Not that that is wrong - to pray 5 times a day is a good thing and obligatory for all muslims. You mention those organisations such as deoband, Tablighi jamat, Jumat islami, Tnzim Islami as products of Indian muslim culture - WHY is it that these organisations become a BIG problem when intertacting with pashtuns? Why is it that they only take the law in their hands when in the Pashtun areas?

pashtuns have played a big role in constantly attacking india over history and "bringing" islam to the hindus.

By electing secularists twice before partition does not mean anything? how many jihads against the British were there back then? the Pashtuns have constantly risen up when they heard Jihad shouted - it does not mean that was a bad thing but it hardly makes them secularists. How many people voted back then - how many of them would have been pashtuns? Surely non-muslims of the NWFP would have also added a significant chunk to the vote bank. Its like judging Pashtuns on the 2002 election. You mention that all those organisations are a part of Indian Islam - islam is islam and its holy book is the same wherever you go to settle -its meaning does not change. there is no such thing as indian islam, afghan islam, arab islam ......yes youhave islam influenced by local cultures but when the local culture goes against the beliefs of islam, quite simply its not islam then.
One thing - is secularism a product or creation of Pashtuns or does it also come from outside?

87

pak-one how dare you critcise burqaposhx knowledge of pakistans geography!

he knows that hazara is in pakistan

and that the hazarajat is somewhere between the hazara division and the jatt heartlands lol

88

I do see the stormy clouds gathering for Pakistan. Although the US has not made it an explicit policy, the disintegration or at the very least defanging of Pakistan is in the cards - particularly under the new administration. Inshallah they will not succeed as long as the Pakistani patriots are here and standing up for the country.

We re facing both external threats - from India, the Indian/Iranian backed Afghan regime, and the US. Internally we face economic troubles combined with the extremist violence on the border, disharmony in the provinces, and a weak center.

What I have mention above is not news to most politically inclined members of gupistan, however lets talk about concrete policy initiatives that the Pakistan government can forward in the next 6-12 months:

Foreign Policy:

  • Iran: We must rebuild ties to Iran. Work with them to reduce their international isolation, put the energy agenda back on track, co opt them in Afghanistan. We need to Iran as a strategic partner in South Asia/Middle East/Central Asia.

  • Taliban: Work with the Taliban. YES work with them on both sides of the border to bring them in the political spectrum of Afghanistan. Pakistan attempted to half-donkey this in the past with no results. The Taliban must be brought back into the by giving them power in Loy Afghanistan - Greater Kandahar (Kandahar, Ghazni, Paktika) and Durand West - Kunar, Paktia, Nangharar region. The Taliban represent the most effect Pakhtun response to foreign (US/UK/Dari speaking) control of Afghanistan.

  • India: We must restart the Kashmir peace talks initiative, even if that buys us more time to get our house in order, it is vital to make that effort.

Economically: Nothing will breed greater unrest then the lack of "roti, kapra, makan." Although this was supposedly PPP's motto it was never followed through. If domestic stability is to be regained, massive price supports for commodities and FX and capital control need to be reinstalled (after Zardari takes out his loot of course HAHA). With the slide of the rupee, we are in optimal position to regain the market share in manufacturing an other labor intensive export oriented industries - flood the international markets with cheap Pak. goods.

Energy: We need to push for nuclear power with simultaneously securing oil concessions and price breaks from S.A./ other Friends of Pakistan. For nuclear power we need to approach China to use their influence with France/Russia to setup joint projects. We simply CANNOT continue at this pace in terms of energy.

Provincial harmony: Greater separations of power between the center and the provinces. Resolving the royalty issue in Baluchistan. Name change in Pakhtunkhwa. Public works projects in Punjab (especially in the Industrial sector), government backing of private financial institutions in Karachi. Increasing the rate of privatization of state owned enterprises.

I know that many readers will reject these proposals as too far reaching, too capitalist or socialist, or for a host of other reasons. I challenge them come up with fresh thinking ideas that will move us forward economically and away from Amriki hegemony.

America will be too preoccupied in its own interests to care for our development. In fact, I could see the US being a shadowy force in the destruction of our fatherland, so it behooves us to move forward in development without further antagonizing the international community.

At this stage of the game we're the most hated ally of the US, a pseudo pariah on the same level as Libya and North Korea (after they renounced their rogue intentions).

89

Jatt heartlands :D is that west of Gujrat or east of it??

90

ANP was so far not an effective party because it was on the wrong-side of the Cold War bi-polarity and pro-center parties like Muslim League etc. were on the right side and so in power, but they didn't do any thing good for Pashtuns either. But now due to change in international political order, it has come on the right side of the divide while now Punjab etc. is swming against the tide of time....So ANP etc. togethor with nationalist parties from other provinces have bigger role to play in coming times...

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The ANP are not a moderate party - they are secular left-wingers whose policies would be rejected by most Pashtuns. Secularism is not the answer to Pakistans problems. Its just the opposite extreme to Shariah law. The ANP are just as guilty of prostituting democracry, inefficiency as all the rest.
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It is a truly secular party like All India Congress. You will see all sort of people in it including those very religious yet secular and those even athiest...and that is the beauty of it...As for democracy, it has the strongest credentials amongs the existing parties taking into account struggle and sacrifices for democracy are cocerned...

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I would agree though the west needs the ANP and in a way pakistan is seen as a liability in its present state but then again Europe seens America the same but still puts up with it.
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West-Pakistan relations are different from Europe-America ...how dare you even compare the two relationships...!

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LOTD - i disagree with you - punjab may not have a problem if pakistan disintegrates, which Inshallal it wont.
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Punjab will have great problems been deprived of Karachi-Gawadar ports, natural gas, electricity, the excessive water it is consuming now, and without energy resources...It will becaome an agricultural rather than Industrial province...Moreover, India will keep it under its thumb in order to pre-empt the uprising of Punjabi nationalism and its merger with Sikh movement...It may even loose its Islamic character...

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Hazara would never join a Pakhtun country and half the the Terbela Dam and whatever its benefits would go to them.
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Ok, let us agree on this. but I think Pashtunistan will get greater share than just one half.

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Hazara people are more likely to join punjab than a Pakhtun country.
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Most of the Pashtuns if you talk to will not like to impose themselves on Hazara...But it would be better if it goes with either Kashmir or Pashtunistan under a contract that will gaurantee the preservation of its cultural, economic, and political rights...In this way, it will remain in the Muslim fold and with passage of time will assume more a Central Asian character...

Its culture is also an amalgam of Kashmiri and Pashtun Culture than of Punjab, although when you go to some areas of Haripur, the culture becomes more Potohari...Areas like Ogai, Baffa, Battagram, Shinkyari, etc. are more like Pashtuns...

Anyhow, greater powers will also not like the merger of Hazara and Potohar in India...that is what I think...

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If Punjab does rejoin India then any Greater Pakhtunistan/Afghanistan would have live with india, who lets face it desire the whole of pakistan.
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Greater Pashtunistan and Greater Baluchistan have been in history, and will be, regions of great strategic importance...a buffer between imortant powers in the region ...all powers would have the interest not to interfer in them...If one power(e.g. India) will try to dominate it, other powers (e.g. China, Iran, Central Asian states, Russia, Arabs, Europe, US) would respond...Plus India has never been an aggressive power in history...

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Sindh would be at odds to - they would suffer from punjab and pakhtunisan taking water from the rivers - imagine if punjab and pakhtunistan did create the Kalabagh Dam - they wont need Sindhs consent unless there is an International Water treaty.
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International treaties will gaurantee that Singh gets it water share...

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Kori what you say is really offensive and derogatory - you may have some valid points but people like you dont exactly help the situation. The pashtuns have to ask themselves why play into the hands of people? its an important question I guess. What you want is for the Pashtuns to lose their culture and traditions and adopt jeans etc. One of the problems of the muslim world is the battle to stop western culture taking over. You would need to adjust and create new provinces because ethnic boundaries are not reflected by the 4 provinces.
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Pashtuns most of the history have been masters of their own destiny except for the last one and half century...they didn't play in the hands of others until their interests were involved...so what you say is wrong...the same cannot be said about other people accross Attock.

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LOTD your very wrong when you say fundamentalism and ideological islam are a genetic ingredient in Pakistan.
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Pakistan was established as an ideological state ...there were no other basis for its nationhood except Islam...that is why Allama Iqbal's "Taba Khak-i-Kasshaghar etc."...If you know about Objective Resolution, which is a part of Pakistan Constitution, that makes sure that no law is enacted in Pakistan that is against Islam and that Pakistan evolves along theocratic lines...that is in fact one of the reasons for constitutional instability in Pakistan...You might also have heard about "Pakistan ka matlab kia ...la ilaha illalah"...

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You dont have these people trying to enforce Shariah Law in Sindh, Balochistan, Punjabi, Seraiki belt. Kori is right to an extent - many punjabis dont take time out to pray even. Have you ever travelled on a bus? its always pashtun passengers who would stop the bus journey to pray. Not that that is wrong - to pray 5 times a day is a good thing and obligatory for all muslims.
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There was no such case before 1947. Pashtuns in history have established many states e.g. Swat. Dir, Afghanistan, in India ---Khiljis, Lhodis, Suris, etc....In Iran Khijis again...but none was a theocracy...The whole idea of Khalafath came with the idea of Pakistan and the main originators of the idea were non-Pashtuns like Mualana maududi, Dr Israr Ahmad, Rashid Ahmad Gangohi, etc.

There was one Syaed Ahmad Barelvi that came to our areas to enfoce Sharia...Pashtuns found in him a good ally and tool against Sikhs but when he tried to enforce Sharia, he was kicked out because Pashtuns wanted to live by their own riwaj instead of sharia...

Unfortunately, during Afghan War, after 1979, our area became a battle ground between capatalism and communism and West+Pakistan+Saudis manipulated to fight that war on the basis of Islam so the Muslim world in large would be involved and the war would be more effective...later Pakistani generals wanted to annex Afghanistan using Islam and that is the whole story...but now that is being reversed because big powers cannot tolerate Pakistan taking Afghanistan and influencing Central Asia using Islam...

As for saying prayers by passengers what is wrong with that until they impose it upon you...more how do you know all that say prayers are Pashtuns...? Agains if you go to Khyber and Bara people say prayers but also drink wine, sell wine, etc...what does that mean...

But i find you people to be strange...sometimes you would call Pashtuns to be Islamic and sometimes blame them for homosexulaity etc. which obviously is un-Islamic...you people change you stances so quickly and the way the winds blow...and inconsistency is your geatest weakness...

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You mention those organisations such as deoband, Tablighi jamat, Jumat islami, Tnzim Islami as products of Indian muslim culture - WHY is it that these organisations become a BIG problem when intertacting with pashtuns? Why is it that they only take the law in their hands when in the Pashtun areas?
pashtuns have played a big role in constantly attacking india over history and "bringing" islam to the hindus.
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That has been answered above...there was no such problem before 1979...Pashtuns attacked India out of their own worldly motives and not for Islam...Remember how Sher Shah expelled Hamayun even though Hamayun was a Muslim...and how Allauddin Khilji and later Bahlool Lhodi snatched power from Muslim rulers...Mir Mahmood Khilji occupied Iran snatching power from Safavids who were Muslims...He even fought Ottoman Empire defeating its forces so all you say is just a misinterpretation of history...

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By electing secularists twice before partition does not mean anything? how many jihads against the British were there back then? the Pashtuns have constantly risen up when they heard Jihad shouted - it does not mean that was a bad thing but it hardly makes them secularists.
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now a days many non-Pashtun Pakistanis are trying to shift the responsibility of extremism towards Pashtuns just to disguise their own hand in the creation of subversive pan islamist, militant islamist, and political islamist ideologies and spreading them the world over...

Let me answer you...

Pashtuns fought for their own worldly gains and not out of jehadi sentiments as many Pakistanis will like the world to believe...they fought against themselves and against non-Pashtun Muslims...e.g. there was Pashtun resistance against Mughals throughout the reign of Babar (just read memoirs of Babar), Hamayun, Akbar, and even Aurangzeb...rather Mughals and Pashtuns were the worst enemies of each other...During Akbar time, many Mughal armies were destroyed by Pashtuns...including the one brought by Zain Khan Koka and Bairbal to Pashtun areas which was dessimated in Buniar, Swat by Yousafzais...Aimal Khan Momand and Darya Khan Afridi defeated many Mughal armies...

Mir Wais Khan Khilji expelled Safavids from Kandahar and his son Mir Mahmood snatched Persia from Muslims (Safavids)...He also fought against Ottomans...Ahmad Shah fought against Muslim Uzbaks, Takaks, Persians, Mughals to expand his own empire...

Pashtuns never fought or stuggled for establishing a theocracy or an Islamic ideological state like Pakistan...Even in 1946, they voted for Congress whereas non-Pashto speakers like Hazaras voted for Muslim League out of Islamic sentiments...

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How many people voted back then - how many of them would have been pashtuns? Surely non-muslims of the NWFP would have also added a significant chunk to the vote bank.

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answered above...non-Muslims were very less in numbers...out of 50 seats 35 were won by secular Khudai Khidmatgars whereas the rest by Muslim League mainly from Hazara...

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Its like judging Pashtuns on the 2002 election.

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I think you should judge by all elections ever held in Pashtun areas...

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You mention that all those organisations are a part of Indian Islam - islam is islam and its holy book is the same wherever you go to settle -its meaning does not change. there is no such thing as indian islam, afghan islam, arab islam ......yes youhave islam influenced by local cultures but when the local culture goes against the beliefs of islam, quite simply its not islam then.
One thing - is secularism a product or creation of Pashtuns or does it also come from outside?
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There is an Indianized (indegenized) version of Pan, political, and miltant Islam that talks of the holyness of Urdu, Pakistan, and superiority of Indian Muslim Culture and is trying to annex Kashmir and Afghanistan using Islam as a tool...Deoband, Jumaath-i-Islami, Tabligh etc. are homegrown Indian Islamic ideologies that have tried to expand thanks the choas created by the Cold War and Afghan War...

60 Days Weight Loss Challenge
91

Stop day-dreaming ...Pashtuns would never like their areas to be controlled with Islam whether west or east of Durand neither other powers would ever allow it...remeber, as long as intersests of great powers are not challenged you can do what you want to but if their interests are challenged then you cannot escape the wrath of the powerful...

more Pakistan with passage of time would have little capacity to influence things within its own borders what to talk of things beyond its borders...it is time for rational thinking than utopian dreams...

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گا، خدشات کو مزید تقویت دیتی ہیں۔ امریکی ادارے نیشنل انٹیلیجنس کونسل کی ایک تازہ رپورٹ کے مطابق اگر پاکستان آئندہ اٹھارہ برسوں میں دہشت گردی اور اقتصادی مسائل پر قابو نہیں پاتا تو قبائلی علاقوں اور صوبہ سرحد کے پٹھان ڈیورنڈ لائن مٹا سکتے ہیں۔ اس بابت گزشتہ دنوں ’گریٹر پختونستان‘ کے نعروں پر مبنی بل بوڑز منظر عام پر آنے کو بعض مبصرین اسی سازش کا حصہ قرار دے رہے ہیں۔

BBCUrdu.com | ??? | ??? ???: ??? ??? ??? ???

93

Oh cut the crap. Pashtuns this and pashtuns that.

Pashtuns in Afghanistan have made the biggest @rse of themselves. They destroyed their own country with their own hands. They did more damage to Afghanistan that even Communists couldn't do.

Afghan-Pashtuns had all the power, and still they could not do a thing to save their land.

karazai the Pashtun is now a little tuttoo for Americans. And people on this board are giving lectures to Pakistanis about Pashtunistan. yeah Right!

Read! Who destroys their girl schools? Only illiterate tribals who have no sense of modern world.

The same Pashtun disease is now ravaging FATA and Sawat.

And what do some of the educated Pashtuns in Pakistan do to deal with this fiasco? They start playing the flute of Pashtunistan.

Pashtunistan will only serve its rightful purpose if it has the tolerant people at the helm. Having illitrate tribals to raise the flag of Pashtunistan will bring yet another American general and yet another Karazai in Peshawar too. Is that the Pashtunistan you are looking for? the copy of Afghanistan.

Wah bhai wah! goray genrals ki gulami ka bara shaoq hai apko.

Go save the schools and colleges. Go save the bridges and roads. That's what a Pashtun nationalist would do. However it is too much to ask.

Only dimwits would add fuel to the fire that is burning their own house.

94

Dear Sir argue with logic and information...

Schools and hospital in Swat were established during Wali Swat a Pashtun when there was no Pakistan Shakistan...later when Pakistan Army started its Kashmir and Afghanistan jehad project, it created people like Mullah Fazlullah and brought Jaish-i-Mohammad ...whom nobody knew before 2001...The good Swatis believed it is a trivial thing and wouldn't interfere with social life at the local level...now they know how have they been cheated...
and so Pakistan army is an object of extreme hatred togethor with its proxies the Taleban...

as for Karazai or Angraiz general sitting in Peshawar don't worry about that...we would have at least some form of sovereign right as a pure Muslim and Pashtun country to do whatever we want to... think about being an ethnic and religious minority in Hindu India...and asking the permission of the Hindu majority to go for Haj or build a mosque....still you people don't understand that it is we that are ensuring the survival of your state and your cultural and religious freedom...if we would opt out there will be no Pakistan...still you badmouth us...

you should abstain from doing this for the sake of Pakistan and your own freedom...

95

Look man, we already know Pakistani (Punjabi) gov's and the West (USA) is to blame for Islamic extremism but let's face it today it's not the Punjabis or Westerners who are affected by Islamic extremism, it's Pashtuns.

Punjabis can't even pray Salaah. Even the Madrassah's in Punjabi cities are run by Mufti's from Kohat, Nowshera, Peshawar, Quetta etc.

Don't get offended and just deny the situation. Pakis in general and Pashtuns especially don't use their brains, they think with their hearts. Stop being so blinded by your nationalism to see things rationally.

Do something positive to change the situation, more schools etc. more programs to change the peoples backward thinking, introduce an enlightened Islam based on the Holy Koran instead of the wrong concepts they have.

What will happen if Pakistan breaks? Punjabis will comfortably go back to their Sufism or "Waheguru Ji Da Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Di Fateh"....

...Pashtuns on the other hand will still be killing and getting killed in Pashtunistan.

PS. What makes you think I'm Punjabi?

Or that Punjabis eat Pan? Pan is an Urdu thing, not a Punjabi one.

Or that I wear a dhoti?

Dhoti and Tent-Shalwar are as unaesthetic as each other, trust me.

Who says Pashtuns have monopoly over shalwar anyway? Did Pashtuns invent it? What did they wear before?

I'm personally for pant shirt across Pakistan, cultures evolve, we're living in a global village with a melting pot culture.

Pant shirt is an international dress, not just a western one. The South-Americans, Chinese, Arabs, Japanese, Indians, Africans etc. all wear it.

Shalwar Kamiz, pattu, those big messy taleb style turbans look ugly.. So does dhoti...

Doesn't Quaid-e-Azam looks a joker with his lamb-skin cap whilst in his portrait where he's wearing a green suit and a flag in the background he looks so handsome, just like AtaTurk.

96

Re: Greater Pashtunistan

LastofTheDinosaurs I don't think you're a Pashtun from Pakhtunkhwa, I think you're just an Afghan (pretty well spoken for one, most can't even string a 3 word sentence).

I think your ultimate desire is the destruction of Pakistan rather than the welfare of Pashtun people.

Afghans biting the hand that feeds them as usual, bloody gypsy sheepherds.

97

I'm not Punjabi, but who says Punjabi and Indian is one and the same?

Pakistani or Indian are not ethnic/cultural labels, they are both just artifically constructed states based on ideology, neither of them are ethnically heterogeneous.

Somebody from Amristar has nothing in common with someone from Madras, just as someone from Peshawar and Lahore haven't much in common.

Punjabi is a cultural/ethnic identity. Punjabis will remain Punjabi regardless of whether the state is called Pakistan, India or Khalistan.

Punjabis whether Muslim, Sikh, Christian or Hindu are Punjabi.

Are the Sikh shopkeepers in Peshawar considered Pashtuns?

Pakistani Punjabis have nothing in common with the rest of India, Pakistani Punjab only has similairities with Indian occupied Khalistan aka East Punjab.

Indian Punjabis (non-amritdhari = no turban/kesh) look just like Paki Punjabis.

It's a shame that in Pakistan, Punjabi is being neglected, in India it's the national language of Punjab.

I'm not Punjabi but I have an appreciation for classical Punjabi poetry. I can read the Shahmukhi script but I was learning Gurmukhi from a Sikh friend back home in England then I had to come to Pakistan.

98

LOTD - I think India will keep any of those so called future states under the thumb. You really think India will allow a Pakhtunistan when they already claim the Indus which rightly is a part of the geography of India. I doubt any of those countries you mention will ever really be successful in anything - its just a nationalists dream. Most pashtuns in NWFP know that too.

What are you talking about most Pashtuns dont want to impose upon Hazara - nationalist Pashtuns have no respect for Hazara and they claim it as their own just because there are some Pashtuns there. just as they claim Mianwali and Attock - in fact some are greedy enough to claim the whole of Balochistan including Gwadar LOL. Most cultures Punjabi pashtun Kashmiri have similarities - the Pashtun from Peshawar city has more in common with the person from Karachi and Lahoe than with the tribal belt. What are you talking about India would love to have Hazara - if it can take Punjab it will take Hazara with it too - many small rivers flow from there and its got the iNdus on the western border.

What are you talking about all powers wont interfere in Greater Balochistan and Greater pashtunistan? Youalready have India, America and in the past Russia and Great britain interfering there and they and others will carry on doing it. I very much doubt you will see the idealistic state that you wish for but more of a broken turmoil ridden region occupied by the USA/NATO/ISAF just like Afghanistan and Iraq.

India has never been an aggressive power in history? What is it now? Its the most powerful state in the whole of the South Asia and Middle East bar Israel and turkey. Do you think India would never interfere with you? The state you wish for would have no army, no structure at first so would be open to exploitation from outsiders. American policy is supporting india to be the dominant state in the region and whether you have Pakistan, pashtunistan, balochistan....the Americans will want them all to be under the Influence of India.

pashtun unity did not come until the late 1700's before that Afghanistan was under the persian and the Mughals and probably any other islamic empire before that. Even when the Afghans/pashtuns were united it was not long before it fell apart. Geographically NWFP is a part of the indian subcontinent- the Durand Line is a natural border between the 2 countries - afghanistan and Pakistan. Its not an artitificial border but a natural one - the mountains are like a natural wall.

I dont know where I have blamed homosexuality on pashtuns LOL. I think your reading some one elses posts and confusing tjem with mine.

Swat was a dictatorship where the ruler valued the cutting of trees to his own people. Swat had so many plus points it had good infrastructure but the poor were still very poor there.

Of course I know the people praying are pashtuns - their dress, language is all one needs to know. Do you find it a problem that pashtuns on buses travelling here and there have the urge to peform their obligatory 5 times a day prayers? Its a well known fact pashtuns are quite strict on praying but then again like other humans they do both good and bad.
Pashtuns attacked India and that says it all. They had no right to attack. they should have stayed put.

The history you talk about - no one tried to esbtalish a theocratic state. The theocraticstate has resurrected in the 20t century because it is seen as many Muslims as an alternative to West domination of their world. The West have united and run the world along with partners such as India and Israel. the muslim culture and religion will disappear and vanish if the west remain dominant in the world. You can already witness westernisation in most Muslim countries.

the blame game is old and as Pashtun nationalists blame ONLY pakistan for the mess they are a big part of, why shoould nt people blame Pashtuns for it? The real problem is that all people do is blame one another and dont do anything to stop the problem. pashtuns, the ISI, the Russians, the Afghans, Indians, Iranians, Americans, al-qaeda all share the blame equally.
Deoband has spread because people find it a closer interpretation of islam than what was present before. Lets face it most of rural india and pakistan have very strange beliefs.
Im not sure what you want to say but you seem to have a problem with islam and pashtuns? kori is right - many Punjabis are not into praying as such. On the buses you will see very few ge upto pray. When they go to the toilets on stops they prefer to use the stand-up urinals than the squat toilets. In Lahore they say soemthing like "Ramzan jan de, Pathan jan de" or something - some one correct me please!

99

Re: Greater Pashtunistan

going back to the original topic a little bit - pak one and LOTD who do you think woul dhave put those billboards up?

100

I think these two sentences qualify for the joke of the day like the style of an American comedy (I guess the guy's name is Jeff fox something) who popularized the term

You must be a redneck (An American hillbilly, villager, idiot, etc. etc) if .........

The same way the joke could be

You must be a knucklehead if ..........

you say "I am a Pashtun and I am sovereign like Karazai". hahhahahha.

Who said political jokes and jokesters are on vacation now that American election season is over. hahhaha.

Ansoo, Ahein, Tanhai