Got a new pet.... "puppy"

[Seminole]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

Does God say anything about dogs or is it just hadith (traditional accounts of what Muhammed or his companions may or may not have said which may or may not be cultural in nature and not part of God's edicts but have become erroneously on par with the words of God?)

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

^ nope, nuffin said

[USResident]

Re: Got a new pet… “puppy”

@Captain1

^ I am not too fond of dogs as pet therefore I never did enough research on it, my personal opinion then would be biased to stay away from them. We don’t necessarily have to know all the ‘rationale’ for all haram/halal/forbidden actions if we are ‘believer’ in God and His Prophet PBUH.

Your disagreeing with me but have no opinion …

[Captain1]

Re: Got a new pet… “puppy”

@USResident

Your disagreeing with me but have no opinion …

bhai sahib, as I mentioned earlier I didn’t do much research on why dog is forbidden as pet, but I have never come across the reason you mentioned as one of the basis for forbidding dogs as pets… so I disagreed with you on the reasoning. Why is it forbidden, could be a reason we cannot think of? Najis?

[Seminole]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

It's not that you can't think of a reason, you just won't acknowledge it. It has been the tradition of those who follow Islam, plain and simple. Many Muslims like to look for rulings, hadith, clerical opinions, WWMD, fatwas, etc. for everything instead of the Quran. But for trivial, non-spiritual matters like this, it boils down to culture and tradition.

[USResident]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

@Captain1

bhai sahib, as I mentioned earlier I didn't do much research on why dog is forbidden as pet, but I have never come across the reason you mentioned as one of the basis for forbidding dogs as pets... so I disagreed with you on the reasoning. Why is it forbidden, could be a reason we cannot think of? Najis?

Actually if you research on the Najaasat line of reasoning you will discover the dog is only considered Najis while it is wet not when dry. Secondly, its saliva is considered Najis. However najaasat can occur from many things animals and human alike.

So can anyone shed some light as to some other reason why it is only forbidden as a pet. If it is because of najaasat then it would be najis in either capacity i.e. guardian or hunter.

[USResident]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

@Seminole

It's not that you can't think of a reason, you just won't acknowledge it. It has been the tradition of those who follow Islam, plain and simple. Many Muslims like to look for rulings, hadith, clerical opinions, WWMD, fatwas, etc. for everything instead of the Quran. But for trivial, non-spiritual matters like this, it boils down to culture and tradition.

Semi, first if all this is a muslim discussion and your opinion does not really matter in our faith however this statement of yours are way out of line. We all know you cannot contribute to this topic being a Christian (not that your opinion won't be heard but rather not considered) however please abstain from uninvited bias.

[Seminole]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

Out of line? My views do not vary much from those Muslims who also reject hadith as God given directives on par with the Quran. I do not question that the Quran was inspired by God.

If you are going to tell me that Islam is THE perfect religion and all others are false, that Muhammad's message is the FINAL message and that I am going to hell for not following the 5 pillars of Islam, then it is my business. How can I not be involved in discussions that affect my soul and my afterlife?

It's a shame you can't address my points instead of dismissing them as irrelevant. I have read the Quran and studied Islam. My opinions are no less valid than your own. Different than most who follow tradition as if words of God? Yes. Outside of the box that many Muslims try to put all other Muslims in? Yes.

My only bias is that I see these positions from an unbiased pov. I have not been raised with the biases and traditions that every Muslim for the past 1400 years has been. You should see my opinions as a fresh set of eyes on issues, not as a threat or insult. Perhaps it can help provide answers that Muslims are still arguing about 1400 years later.

[Lajawab]

Re: Got a new pet… “puppy”

^^

You being a Christian and then being a proponent of rejecting Hadith, I believe the first thing you should reject is the New Testament itself…Because that whole book is nothing but Hadith from Jesus :as:…

The Gospel according to Mark, according to Matthew, according to Paul, according to Peter, according to Luke, according to John and now according to Judas e.t.c…

Are you willing to do that?

[GenSec]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

agreed

seems like lots of people here just dont' wana realize that its more traditional than islam itself

@Seminole

It's not that you can't think of a reason, you just won't acknowledge it. It has been the tradition of those who follow Islam, plain and simple. Many Muslims like to look for rulings, hadith, clerical opinions, WWMD, fatwas, etc. for everything instead of the Quran. But for trivial, non-spiritual matters like this, it boils down to culture and tradition.

[GenSec]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

you have got to be kidding me!?
when a dog is kept indoors it almost starts worshipping the master!?
what about a parrot you teach or train, or any other indoor animal who looks up to u for food, and attention?

logically speaking, if its in a dogs nature (fitrat) to 'worship' its owner/master do you not think Allah would have clearly mentioned his disliking of us muslims owning dogs?

secondly, go read a book on dogs, dogs look up to the "pack leader" (in this case if u train your dog right, u will be the pack leader). dogs in the wild also look up to and treat the leader of the pack just like theynow treat their human owner.

pshhh ...."This kind of behavior is condemned in Islam"

@USResident

Can anyone shed some light on why it is forbidden to keep a dog as a pet but not for hunting or protection? There has to be reason to distinguish these uses of a dog. If someone would but realize it has to do with the nature of a dog. When kept as a pet it almost starts worshipping its master (unless it becomes rabid). This kind of behavior is condemned in Islam i.e. all worship is for Allah SWT. Would anyone want to touch up on this while presenting all their arguments.

[imranjaff]

Re: Got a new pet… “puppy”

@GenSec

you have got to be kidding me!?
when a dog is kept indoors it almost starts worshipping the master!?
what about a parrot you teach or train, or any other indoor animal who looks up to u for food, and attention?

logically speaking, if its in a dogs nature (fitrat) to ‘worship’ its owner/master do you not think Allah would have clearly mentioned his disliking of us muslims owning dogs?

secondly, go read a book on dogs, dogs look up to the “pack leader” (in this case if u train your dog right, u will be the pack leader). dogs in the wild also look up to and treat the leader of the pack just like theynow treat their human owner.

pshhh …“This kind of behavior is condemned in Islam”

Whenever u lock ur mind its hard for urself to understand the truth.actually most of the muslims follows the man made book and dont want to understand the nature.And do interpret their logics with knowledge which is mostly follows their inner feelings.DOgs r wonderful animals they care and love their masters.This is the only wild animals if they do hunting dogs will brings to their master but first u hve to train them.if u want to train them u hve to put dogs in ur home so how can u do hunting without train them.DOgs r amazing animals Dogs hve capabilities to learn the master teaching.u can protact ur house with dogs u can hunt with them and when u love such kind of animals naturally u feel to love other creation too.But the problem is tht how will u teach ur mullah and so called muslims who dont follow quran and dont do research on Malaikas jaab elim k darwazy band hoo tu har chiz apnay khood sakhta aqaaid per thookra dee jaty hai.Jaab elim e wahi ka itbah nahi kia jaata tu insaan kabhi chand ko poojhta hai kabhi sooraaj ko jaab wahi ke itabah karta hai tu kamyaabi aur kaamrani paata hai lakin jaisay hi is ke sath insaan ka elim mila day daita hai tu is ko bhi Khuda se mansoob kar daita hai aur is ko khuda ke ataat kahta hai.Phir woh Nature ko aisi tanha lay laita hai aur kahta hai is per ghoor fikar na karoo humhary Baroo nay kar lee aur Sharah main likh dee is ke mutaliq sawaal na karo warna kafiroo main se hoo jaoo gaye. .Zindayee naam hi ghoor aur fikar ka hai jis ke wajah se rooz Duniya main Tabdili waqaya hoo rahi hai lakin agar is ka istamaal bhi shih hoo jaye tu yea Flaah ka baaiz baan jaty hai.Bazhair tu koi chiz shaar aur Khair nahi hooty is chiz ka istamaal is ko Khair aur shaar banata hai aab taak mainne yea hi daikha hai ke insaan har chiz ka istamaal shih nahi karta.Agar kar lay tu yea hi Duniya Janaat baan jaaty hai.Aur insaan MArnay k baad irtaqai manazil tay kar ke agaye ke zindagaye ka samaan e zisaat muhaya kar laita hai.Muallahaoo nay har chiz per Tahqeeq ke pabandi laaga rakhi hai is liye woh apni khohishaat ka itbah karnay k liye janaat ke bashaartain day raah ta hai.Lagta aisa hai Janaat aur Duzakah ka Qooli Malik Wohi hai.Woh kabhi nahi kahta ke Quran ke Ataat karoo Allah ke ATaat karoo Kahin QUran ke baat nahi karta woh karta hai Apnay Maslaak ke baat jo Ghoor aur fikar se khali hooty Hai.Is wajah se os ka kaisi bhi mashray aur society ke falah o bahbood se koi Talaq nahi hoota.os ka talooq hoota hai shaar pahlanay se logo ko ghoomrah karnay se is liye Ayeee din in ke wajah se khoon a razi hooty hai jis main Malookiyaat ka bhi Amaal dakhaal hoota hai

[USResident]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

@GenSec

you have got to be kidding me!? when a dog is kept indoors it almost starts worshipping the master!? what about a parrot you teach or train, or any other indoor animal who looks up to u for food, and attention?

logically speaking, if its in a dogs nature (fitrat) to 'worship' its owner/master do you not think Allah would have clearly mentioned his disliking of us muslims owning dogs?

secondly, go read a book on dogs, dogs look up to the "pack leader" (in this case if u train your dog right, u will be the pack leader). dogs in the wild also look up to and treat the leader of the pack just like theynow treat their human owner.

pshhh ...."This kind of behavior is condemned in Islam"

Hey why can't someone give a better answer. I'm all ears for one. Worship does not literally mean a dog thinking you as a god. Just behavior. Set a parrot free and I doubt it will stick around for a long time unless you have handicapped it enough not to know its way around. See no one is answering what I asked WHY ONLY AS PETS THEY ARE FORBIDDEN? THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING AS PETS THAT THEY WOULD EXHIBIT THAT IS DISLIKED. THE NAJASAT ARGUMENT DOES NOT FLY BECAUSE ONE COULD HAVE DOG HOUSE BUILT OUTSIDE OF THEIR HOUSE AND KEEP THE DOG OVER THERE WITHOUT EVER LETTING IT IN THE HOUSE.

See Allah SWT declared pig haram for us in the Quran without giving much reason and ofcourse we come up with numerous reasons for it. In the case of dog it was only prohibited in one circumstance and that too only in the hadith, so there must be some reason other than just out of sheer obedience. If it was only sheer obedience then no distinctions would have been made and it would be haram on us in every circumstance like the pig. The dog is such a useful animal to mankind then why forbid it as a pet or for pleasure. We are only allowed to make use of its abilities but not keep it as a pet. I can think of numerous other reasons, say for instance, what advantage do pets give us, I think really nothing. You would spend on them whereas you could spend the same money on helping another human being then why waste it on keeping a pet. However this reasoning doesn't fly to me because then all pets would be forbidden. SO AGAIN WHY THE DISTINCTION FOR KEEPING AS A PET?

[teaser]

Re: Got a new pet… “puppy”

^ USR very well said :k:

[GenSec]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

dogs pets are only forbidden in the bar-e-sageer (sub continent)
i'll repeat my self and others for the millionth time, its a
cultural divide between dog and man, rather than a religious one

technically speaking, keeping a parrot as a pet, islamically ur not supposed to cage a bird which is able to fly.

@USResident

Hey why can't someone give a better answer. I'm all ears for one. Worship does not literally mean a dog thinking you as a god. Just behavior. Set a parrot free and I doubt it will stick around for a long time unless you have handicapped it enough not to know its way around. See no one is answering what I asked WHY ONLY AS PETS THEY ARE FORBIDDEN? THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING AS PETS THAT THEY WOULD EXHIBIT THAT IS DISLIKED. THE NAJASAT ARGUMENT DOES NOT FLY BECAUSE ONE COULD HAVE DOG HOUSE BUILT OUTSIDE OF THEIR HOUSE AND KEEP THE DOG OVER THERE WITHOUT EVER LETTING IT IN THE HOUSE.

[USResident]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

@GenSec

dogs pets are only forbidden in the bar-e-sageer (sub continent) i'll repeat my self and others for the millionth time, its a cultural divide between dog and man, rather than a religious one

Its no cultural divide. Who said this only happens in The Bar-e-sagheer? You probably don't know many people of other nationalities. It is equally detested among Arabs, those who are religious ofcourse.

@GenSec

technically speaking, keeping a parrot as a pet, islamically ur not supposed to cage a bird which is able to fly.

You definitely need to improve your comprehension. Did I say I am giving a fatwa here. What I said was that since there are no reasons I am just thinking of some that come to mind. As for the doggy behavior I have actually read something of like but can't remember where. Btw why don't call up 1-800-FATWA-AS-U-LIKE-IT if you are not content on hearing everyone opposing it.

[GenSec]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

if i wasn't open to hearing people oppose my view
i would have never started the thread
but please do try to make some logical sense rather than some bs
about oh, "the dogs worship their owners, ALlah condemns that"

[USResident]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

@GenSec

if i wasn't open to hearing people oppose my view i would have never started the thread but please do try to make some logical sense rather than some bs about oh, "the dogs worship their owners, ALlah condemns that"

No I said they exhibit that kind of trait. And I did not say Allah SWT condemns but rather suggested could that be a reason because we don't have any reasons thus far from the ahadith why dog is forbidden as a pet. Man do you even understand what I am talking? You are reading lines out of their context totally ignoring what a poster has established through all his posts. Anyway, cute doggy though.

[GenSec]

Re: Got a new pet.... "puppy"

u know after re-reading thru the posts
ur right, u were saying it in a suggestive manner
sometimes u read something and ut ake it one way, then u read it again, and it comes out another... my mistake, i'm sorry

alrite, this thread if not taken personally is actually getting somewhere lol wouldn't u agree?

i'm visiting rents in upstate ny, and i decided to go down to the local masjid.
got 2 opinions, lol very very different from each other

one guy who is the imam (egyptian) heritage - he says they are okay to keep just like any other animal, as long as they are properly fed and given their needed freedom (i'm guessing he means dont lock them up in a little crate)

and the other guy (indian) who used to be the imam, he first started off by saying "u have a dog? astag! - they are haram" , he talked for about 5-10 mins , but his main point was they are haram to keep as pets

i'm hoping something from the quran or a adhees that, doesn't contradict with the quran, or a logical reason as to why people suggest they are not to be kept as pets does come out of this discussion

scientifically speaking, a dogs mouth or salaiva is cleaner than a humans mouth?

btw thank u, i'm glad u liked the dog :)

@USResident

No I said they exhibit that kind of trait. And I did not say Allah SWT condemns but rather suggested could that be a reason because we don't have any reasons thus far from the ahadith why dog is forbidden as a pet. Man do you even understand what I am talking? You are reading lines out of their context totally ignoring what a poster has established through all his posts. Anyway, cute doggy though.

[The_Old_Man]

Re: Got a new pet… “puppy”

@USResident

No I said they exhibit that kind of trait. And I did not say Allah SWT condemns but rather suggested could that be a reason because we don’t have any reasons thus far from the ahadith why dog is forbidden as a pet.

In order to worship one need to have a concept of “God”. No animal can “worship”. Adoration and obedience is not “worship”.

The prophet Muhammad stated that dogs be treated in a certain way, and should be accepted without seeking some nonsense reason why. Accept it as part of the faith, same as not being permissible to eat pig. Pure faith, no reason.

Both animals are God’s creation.