Good Non-Muslim People

Re: Good Non-Muslim People

why do they want to help the needy? BEcause they want to help them because they r good people. Sister hareem i am a muslim myself, i help the needy because we are instructed to do so by allah, but also because if i can help ppl then i personally feel i should for the sake of humanity.

I refuse to accept the fact that non-believers help the needy to feel good about themselves, i think that is ridiculous, There are plnety of other ways of making ureself feel good, like going on holiday shopping e.t.c this involves spending on ureself, if they r so selfish as u say then why spend their time and money helping others if all they want is to make themselves feel good.

There is sumthing called humanity. You don't need to believe in a GOd or belong to a certian religion to have humanity , to be a gud person , or even to want to help those in need,

Re: Good Non-Muslim People


A very good reply... I agree with your deduction.

Re: Good Non-Muslim People

no

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Peace tweety_pie

To be a Muslim is the surest way to be granted Paradise, because even if we have to serve a punishment the final destination is Paradise.

It is true atheists can do many things to make themselves feel happy, but when they give charity one asks what are they doing it for then?

They don't believe in Paradise so why rid yourself of wealth that you can spend on yourself to make yourself feel happy? The real answer lies in ethics or the fitra, which contains within it a tenent that is our natural need to help one another, we do help one another because Allah (SWT) has placed within us a conscience such that if we see others in pain or anguish it makes us feel that pain and anguish, some people do some people don't it depends on their sense of humanity, which is based on a given upbringing and education.

It is usually for a selfish reason why a Godless person thus gives and would in that case give either to feel that pain lessen or to feel a sense of pride in helping others. When a believer in God gives and does so not in pursuit of this natural need, but in hope and fear .... in faith to please Allah (SWT) then the side-effect of feeling good will naturally occur, but then this feeling should be handled carefully i.e. it should not enter our heart that we are helping anyone, rather we should humble ourselves and feel that God helps whomsoever He Wills. It is this mindset that is preferable to God and it is this that is called the goodness in a good deed. Though generally speaking I agree all people can do good deeds without belief in God but the motive behind those deeds are critically different. Also, you will find that the more rational atheists and the ones that adhere to the scientific precepts and base life on the workings of evolution, they are not likely to be the ones giving charity because for them and according to their understanding the weak and poor are in a position that should be wiped out to give way for the strong to dominate and prosper. It is the philosophical atheist that takes a different stance with regards to helping others.

Humans are essentially selfish because we have to be that is the proviso for any action that we undertake, I guess faith is delayed selfishness and materialism is immediate gratification. Faith is also optimal happiness whereas worldliness is convenient happiness. The question to ask is ... can a non-believer give charity even if it causes him hardship in the process?

Re: Good Non-Muslim People

Peace tweety_pie

You see you have answered the question already. Read in bold above a quote from yourself. You acknowledge that you do good because of Allah (SWT) this is ibadah. However, when you feel we should do things for the sake of humanity then the worship is for humanity.

Doing for the SAKE of something is a class of worship. We should do for the SAKE of Allah (SWT) not for the SAKE really of anything else, unless it serves a subsidiary sake after first serving Allah's SAKE.

Re: Good Non-Muslim People

:salam:

Beautiful answer Br. Psyah. Infact just yesterday I was discussing with a brother at some gathering who was giving me the argument about the essentials of humanity being present in all religions so our good deeds should be for helping humanity. Same old argument about How can people like Mother Teresa go to hell and he did not understand the difference between helping someone and helping for the sake of Allah SWT. Your answer really puts it very well.

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^Brother, you and bro Psyah and some others may deem this as an appropriate answer, but I think it is only meant to reassure yourselves of something... can't say that I could ever agree with it. Don't forget that via this approach are also being selfish in a way by thinking that what you do is what God wants you to do. Perhaps this should be a closing statement from my side (for myself that is). Best of luck.

PS: And yes I personally know an individual (who considers himself an athiest) who goes out of his way to be charitable and asks for nothing in return, and he does this saying he'd rather make his existance useful "for if there were a God, He'd want" him to do this... In a way, I envy him for his efforts.

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Peace hypnotix-2000

By merely entertaining the 'chance' of God means he is being prudent with his actions ... inshaAllah his rewards will be coming. You see it cannot be escaped ... The ones that 'go out of their way' entertain the concept of 'God' even if they profess to be atheists.

I agree that faith based good deeds are also selfish, read my distinction above ... post #124 last paragraph.

Re: Good Non-Muslim People

:salam:

I think Br. Psyah answered that his actions are still to err on the side of caution, so the selfish aspect is still vested with an interest about the existance of God.

Additionally, since we in a sense believe that every good deed is an act of worship and Allah SWT clearly says in the Quran he created us for nothing but to worship him (this is not in my understanding strictly ritual worship) but every good deed done with the intention of doing for his sake so it is classified an act of worship. When we do it for the sake of humanity it falls under the Islamic definition of shirk (not major as in worshipping another god but minor shirks). This is precisely why our actions will be judged based on our intentions. The intention should be selfless from the creation as much as possible in order for it to be an act of worship to Allah SWT.

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so god made us only to workship him . what a looser we are..

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^ and what does it say about God? It makes him sound needy, petty and selfish.

all this talk about non-Muslims giving for the sake of giving being selfish is absurd. I guess it is a foreign concept for some to believe that one can be a good person and not doing things for rewards or brownie points.

What can be more selfish than to believe that one is going to have an everlasting carnal wonder-life for following the "right" religion? It doesn't get any more selfish than that.

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The sooner you figure that out the better off you are or you can be arrogant about it and refuse to acknowledge God.

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The god whom i believe in doesnt want me to praise him and tell him how great he is. All he wants me to do is the right thing in life which according to many people is an act of selfishness or act of feeling better.
I guess my god is way different than yours.

Re: Good Non-Muslim People

Semi, God is not in need of anything from us but for us to earn his blessings we need him. We are in need of him and the sbumission to his will partly means that we stop being arrogant about our helplessness in front of him and acknowledge that without him we have no where to go (or atleast not in the right direction). This life is a test for us not him.

Its absurd to say that people do things without trying to satisfy some desire or selfish need. When the word selfish is used, it is not used in a negative connotation or bad sense here necessarily.

Yes it is selfish in way but not immoral as you make it sound like. It will not stop us from doing good deeds. Do you do good deeds for yourself or because you think that that is what God would want you do to?

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Acknowledging God, praying to God, praising God, being thankful to God and living a Godly life is totally different thatn saying God created us for nothing but to worship him.

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If you are doing it because you think God wants you to do the right things in life then you are infact praising God by following his teachings. And that is a good thing. So you are infact doing what I am saying. You do good deeds with the thought in mind that God would be happy to see you do good deeds. To praise God is not just to worship him but also to act upon the way he would want you to act upon baring in mind that this is the right way according to God.

Re: Good Non-Muslim People


For myself, for the good of others and for God. They are all related and should all be motivating reason. God wants me to do the right things because they are the right thing to do. Not out of fear or hopes of rewards. Carrots and sticks are for lesser life forms. Spirituality and Godliness can't be forced or done for the wrong (selfish) reasons.

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Worship is a matter of perspective between you and me. Everything you mentioned is an act of worship from my perspective. Do you not owe everything to God for what you have in this life?

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Ok. Which has the first priority though in your action, For God or Others? They are tied together but the what I as a muslim emphasize is the priority.

So what is it that deters you from doing the wrong things?

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1) Who defines good
It is the explicit right of God to define for us the good and the bad and provide for us what is better and what is worse
If man has the right to choose what is good then every man can do 'good' according to his own definition. To be a submitter
unto God one needs to take the law as prescribed by God and implement it.

2) Purifying Intention behind a good deed
Once it has been cleared as to what IS a good deed, then one will need to purify the intention behind it. Am I doing this for me, for others to think highly of me,
to feel at ease or for the pleasure of God or a mixture of these things?

3) The definition of pure intention
It becomes another task to realise that can we create for ourselves the basis for purification of intention or is there a benchmark or means for calibrating this?
It falls down on our set of principles. If our principles are being met by such an action then this is conformance, but are our principles self-created or Divinely prescribed?
Do we align to do what serves others for the sake of others or do we align to do what serves all for the explicit sake of God?

4) Do we seek wordly reward or heavenly reward or both or neither? Or do we seek only pleasure of God and expect a reward through trust of the Mercy and Justice of God?

5) We need to recognise that a good act is sanctioned by God

6) If we meet the objectives of our good acts, then we must not take pride in meeting them.

7) This is because we need to realise that all good should be attrbuted to God.

8) This is because we believe that God has given us the 'tawfiq' to do good, i.e. God works through us.

9) We do not presume that our good deeds even in their purest of intentions can 'help' others except that Allah wishes it. We should realise that our 'help'
will benefit others only if Allah (SWT) gives 'tawfiq' to them for gaining in that help.

10) We need to realise that the best good act is that what helps others get closer to the requirements for forgiveness and getting closer to Jannah in the akhira.

11) The best helper is the one who avoids the risk of being over adulated so does his good deeds in private. This person will shun praise and re-attribute it to God.
In English we say thank you the reply is English courtesy is you are welcome, but the reply in Arabic is considered arrogant. We should say BarakAllahuFiq May Allah (SWT)
give you gain in it. Or Alhumdulillah Praise be to God.

12) Defining the variant forms of selfishness ... One benefit is forseeable and imminent and is the result of an action that is taken. The other benefit is not forseeable
there is a trust in it. One gain is seen for our immediate pleasure, the other gain is to welcome the reward of God in the hereafter a trust for it. It is considered
rightful to seek the Reward of God or else it would be like we are disrespecting God for denying His bounties, but at the same time we should not seek to displease God
for our own gains for that would be true immoral selfishness.

It is like Alama Iqbal said once ... Do good for the sake of God ... well at least do it for your own sake. Meaning an action to please God is good, an action to avoid
Wrath is also good but less so.

A friend of mine is an extreme Neo-Darwinian Atheist. He believes that humanity is moving in a retrograding or devolutionary manner because we take care of our old and weak.
He feels that society has built in functions such as charity that goes against our purpose of life, which is survival of the fittest. To him ... charity would be a sin. Yet,
he is such a kind and helpful person. I blame it on his Fitra, and I truly believe he is mistaken. A strict atheist does not want the reward of Allah (SWT) that is Paradise
because he doesn't even believe in it. So why is it wrong for him not to get what he already doesn't want? This is Justice.

Remember faith is the path to Paradise and Pride is the path to Hell.