Re: Good Non-Muslim People
misconception!
really, so a muslim would remain in hell for ever then?
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
really, so a muslim would remain in hell for ever then?
Heaven and Hell have been described in the Quran in symbolic terms or allegories... Naar does not necessarily mean Fire, but also Chaos. I might bring the following to your attention:
**7:40 إن الذين كذبوا بءايتنا واستكبروا عنها لا تفتح لهم أبوب السماء ولا يدخلون الجنة حتى يلج الجمل في سم الخياط وكذلك نجزي المجرمين
Those who deny Our messages (does not necessarily refer to non-Muslims here), and scorn them, the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them. And they will not enter the Garden until the camel goes through the eye of a needle. This is how We recompense the guilty. **
On the surface, it may seem that since a camel is too big for the eye of a needle, then the entrance into Paradise for these "doomed souls" is impossible. But one must wonder: Why choose the example of a camel and an eye of a needle? Consider the first verses of Text of Qaaf/Qoph (50)
50:1-2 Q/Qaaf/Qoph, by the Qur'an of glory. Are they surprised that a warner has come to them from amongst them, so the rejecters said: "This is something strange!"
It is interesting that Qaaf as a Semitic symbol refers to the "eye of a needle" in certain instances and as an acronym it means to Qif (stop and think). So in fact it is asking people look at the message closely and with open mind. The eye of a needle is too small to let a camel through, but if you keep an open mind, hold it close to your eye and then see what happens: It is a matter of perception!!
Until mankind does not realize that they have the power to wield their destiny, they will never succeed and evolve (i.e their realization of this fact has an allegorical connotation for entrance into Paradise - constant growth, improvement and evolution to a state of utter perfection)! Conversely, if they keep up with their dogmatism and superstitions, then they will keep stagnating and stoop to subhuman levels of endless chaos (i.e allegory for Hell).
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
This thread is unbelievable. I am amazed at the attempt of the religious zealots to twist themselves and others int proving which good people are good and which good people don't meet with their approvals. Sadly, once again, they are using their halfcocked understanding of morals and pose as spokesmen of Allah. In the process do they realize how much they themselves are sinning?
By definition heaven is for good people and hell for bad people.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
This thread is unbelievable. I am amazed at the attempt of the religious zealots to twist themselves and others int proving which good people are good and which good people don't meet with their approvals. Sadly, once again, they are using their halfcocked understanding of morals and pose as spokesmen of Allah. In the process do they realize how much they themselves are sinning?
By definition heaven is for good people and hell for bad people.
Bro everyone has their own understanding about what our purpose of existance is... the only problem is many of us do not keep an open mind to hear out what others have to say and why. Do not be one of those by saying the above especially since you seem to hold a moderate rhetoric. If you have something to say, why not use evidence to back it up rather than using the language used above. Rather than saying people "are using their halfcocked understanding of morals and pose as spokesmen of Allah", show me an example of the fully-baked understanding.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
^ fully baked certainly includes the ability to exercise one's god given brain instead of resorting to 'that is what Quran says' or 'this is what the prophet did' etc. People are using excuses such as these to justify abominations such as polygamy, incest, cousin inter-marriage, suppression of womens rights, jihadi suicide bombings, unholy alliances with enemies....every one of them do these things in the name of Quran and the religion. To the point that anyone posing themselves as knowing islam can no longer be trusted.
Under these circumstances, rejection of such practices by exercising ones own brain is an abolute necessity. Otherwise you cannot set youngters to the correct path if they keep hearing violent and immoral exhortations from their religious leader
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
^ fully baked certainly includes the ability to exercise one's god given brain instead of resorting to 'that is what Quran says' or 'this is what the prophet did' etc. People are using excuses such as these to justify abominations such as polygamy, incest, cousin inter-marriage, suppression of womens rights, jihadi suicide bombings, unholy alliances with enemies....every one of them do these things in the name of Quran and the religion. To the point that anyone posing themselves as knowing islam can no longer be trusted.
Under these circumstances, rejection of such practices by exercising ones own brain is an abolute necessity. Otherwise you cannot set youngters to the correct path if they keep hearing violent and immoral exhortations from their religious leader
I have no problem with this understanding... however, I would advise you not to judge people by accusing them of not exercising their judgement. Maybe they are using their brains, and have not yet realized what the truth is (yourself and myself included). There is a lot yet to be understood by us and we have a long way to go in our evolution to a higher form of existance. What I have absolute faith in, is that we will get there eventually...
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
^ I hope so. As you know longer that takes the more souls that are lost to the dark side.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
^ I hope so. As you know longer that takes the more souls that are lost to the dark side.
See, there again you judge... what if there is no "sin" but just an element of human weakness that we have to give up.
Isn't it our weakness when we steal, when we kill, when we take undue advantage of a situation? Don't we wrong our own selves by doing this, ultimately limiting our own chances of becoming better humanbings and also stall society in its evolution? Isn't this punishment enough for mankind that God would need to punish us further or if he ever needed to create a "dark side"?
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
^ look, youngsters are getting suckered into exploding in the name of religion. It doesn't require a lot of judgement to see that it is the dark side.
remember: when good people keep silent, it is as bad as bad people committing evil.
But I agree that people need to be calm and patient and let others evolve at their own pace.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Quran 4:48 *Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin. *
and the good deeds of such people go waste as the verse tells us.... Quran 18:105 *Those are they who disbelieve in the revelations of their Lord and in the meeting with Him. Therefor their works are vain, and on the Day of Resurrection We assign no weight to them. *
You've got your answer mercenary2K......the thread should be closed.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Hareem01 hath spoken - Muslims should just parrot things out, without using their brains/logic/sense/wisdom/intellegence/experience/maturity or conscience.
No need to "think" or use your brain - is that how you want all muslims to become. Lanat hey tum jasey loggon ki Bhuddhi par.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
I have a question to ask the religious experts here.
I have a hindu friend. He is the kindest and most nicest person I have ever met. Not a single person has ever said a bad thing about him nor has he sad a bad thing about anyone. He is obedient to his parents. Never did anything sinful.
But he is a Hindu.
Will he go to Hell when he dies because he is non-muslim, even though he is so kind hearted?
Please explain
If good is loving and kind as the Koran says, then why would those individuals who embody these characteristics, and thus those that are closest to god, be sent to hell!?!?!
It just doesnt make any sense... Those closes to god in terms of their traits, would obviously be those most likely to get into heaven.
Hell I think is reserved for those who embody traits that are farthest from those of god... Those that have no compassion, or forgiveness. Such people can belong to any faith, even Islam. Taliban and Al Qaeda in my estimation would be ripe for hell...
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Hareem01 hath spoken - Muslims should just parrot things out, without using their brains/logic/sense/wisdom/intellegence/experience/maturity or conscience.
No need to "think" or use your brain - is that how you want all muslims to become. Lanat hey tum jasey loggon ki Bhuddhi par.
Any good deed or action should be done for the sake of Allah(God) instead of for pleasing only people or for gaining a position or rank in this world.
Even the good doings of some muslims will be wasted because they used to do it for pleasing others or just to show off.
PS: tumahri bheji hui lanat mera kuch nahi bigaar sakti....so keep it to yourself.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
If good is loving and kind as the Koran says, then why would those individuals who embody these characteristics, and thus those that are closest to god, be sent to hell!?!?!
It just doesnt make any sense... Those closes to god in terms of their traits, would obviously be those most likely to get into heaven.
Hell I think is reserved for those who embody traits that are farthest from those of god... Those that have no compassion, or forgiveness. Such people can belong to any faith, even Islam. Taliban and Al Qaeda in my estimation would be ripe for hell...
Peace PaKpatriot1
Well at least you are true to your philosophy of 'being close to God by embodying His traits' you are effectively exhibiting the trait of Judge over such people.
However, if it is Compassion and Forgiveness as you say are the Traits of God that bear any real importance then how can you then in the same breath estimate the destination of people without considering the very Traits that you support?
The fact is that you are not God and all Judgment is for Him and those who estimate on His behalf are doing themselves a grave injustice.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Any good deed or action should be done for the sake of Allah(God) instead of for pleasing only people or for gaining a position or rank in this world.
This is incorrect.
A number of atheists help poor people with food and donations. That doesn't make their action any less good than someone who believes.
In fact I think it is the other way around - belief in God is to inculcate morals in people so that they will help each other.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
This is incorrect.
A number of atheists help poor people with food and donations. That doesn't make their action any less good than someone who believes.
In fact I think it is the other way around - belief in God is to inculcate morals in people so that they will help each other.
The athiest probably does it to make himself feel good but the believer does it to make his Lord happy.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
The athiest probably does it to make himself feel good but the believer does it to make his Lord happy.
So to make god happy i have to praise him daily??
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
The athiest probably does it to make himself feel good but the believer does it to make his Lord happy.
I am sure some atheists and some believers do good deeds exactly for the reasons you list.
But there are also atheists who do good and believers who do good just to help the person in need, without any other motive.
The way I see it is:
When Atheist helps a beggar => beggar benefits + atheist feels good
When Believer helps a beggar => beggar benefits + believer feels good + God approves (in the believer's mind ofcourse)
And then there may be believers who may do a good deed not so that the beggar benefits or he feels good but only because he thinks god wants him too.
In all cases the irony is the net result is the same.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
I am sure some atheists and some believers do good deeds exactly for the reasons you list.
But there are also atheists who do good and believers who do good just to help the person in need, without any other motive.
The way I see it is:
When Atheist helps a beggar => beggar benefits + atheist feels good When Believer helps a beggar => beggar benefits + believer feels good + God approves (in the believer's mind ofcourse)
And then there may be believers who may do a good deed not so that the beggar benefits or he feels good but only because he thinks god wants him too.
In all cases the irony is the net result is the same.
When an athiest intends to help a beggar, he does it with the intention that he is helping the beggar whereas he is only helping his own sense of good feeling.
When a believer intends to help a beggar he does so thinking God is helping the beggar through him and that he should humble himself in this act of giving.
The good feeling in the athiest is one of arrogance, the good feeling in the believer is spiritual joy and will get a reward in the hereafter.
Now a believer gets his reward from God in the hereafter because his intention was to gain God's mercy and happiness by doing good, the athiest on the other hand denies the existence of God all his life but if he expects from God to recognise and count his good deeds when meeting Him at the Day of Judgement then this would be an injustice to those believers.
Also when a non muslim becomes a believer all his previous sins are washed away and all his previous good deeds and following ones will be counted in the hereafter.
Not in the mind of the believer but according to Qur'an and Sunnah.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Aunt Zobia,
By workshipping idol ..i am not hurting anyone. All I am doing is by making an image of god i am workshipping him.piece of wood and sand is also created by him. How about you when you slaughter an innocent animal for praising allah? you are taking an innocent life but when i am workshipping through idol none is hurt.
you eat herbs, plants by killing them and hearting them because according to science , plants are living beings
you hurt plants
you use wood for making "god" you kill trees , you hurt them
only because they have voice at lower frequencey then human ear can hear you think they can speak
they feel pain when you eat them