Re: Getting rid of seculars
Thanks for tackling him in detail.
I am not done yet. Let him come back with a reply.....
Re: Getting rid of seculars
I am all for religous rule but not with current set of “maulanas”, the type which would support extremism, the type which would kill each other (bombing, firing spree of mosques/Imam bargah), not the type which would mimic govt and play with the laws of land, not the type which would support suicide bombing etc. I hope you get the drift. Allah swt will help us but we need to help ourselves first and follow Quran and Sunnah and not our personal whims and desires to implement “our” shariah.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
This is the most retarded thread so far this year.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
I think ..Iran ..is the best model..so far ..for all islamic countries....
few changes are needed..but sunnis populated countries can follow iran's example...in sharaih...
Re: Getting rid of seculars
few changes like ..Iran's Rahbar concept....of being superor to all institutions..and few others..muslims can follow hanafi..shafi...hanbali..and maliki..etc etc ..in thier perspective countries...
belive me..in 56 islamic countries...there is only leader who is a MAN ..Amedi Najad of Iran....
Re: Getting rid of seculars
A country i really love and admire...United states.... has a system close to Islam. There is law and order, people generally are nice, don't lie...... respect diversity and accommodate all sorts of people...including taliban like.. have good working democracy.....
So if they just have shariah laws they will be the best example of an islamic state .
But US is a democratic country and the last few years I remember, hardcore people like you consider it a sin to be a "democrat". It is an irony that you wahabis cry khilafat and sahaba this and that while your one eyed saud destroyed the last working khilafa and don't seem to follow the democratic traditions of the khulfa-e-rashideen.
If people are dancing naked on the street [figuratively or you say "literally"? :D], it is because of you wahabi and deobandis that have maligned the religion so much that some people are running away from it. I know your kind makes fun of saints but it was their way of "leading by action" that is the ultimate path.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
I think your confused. You need to go back to your history, and actually read it this time…
Pakistan was made for Muslims, not for Islam.
The founder of Pakistan was infact a secular person. And as much as you hate it, your views are irrelavant.
No one is speaking against Islam, people only talk against arrogance of people who think they are gods representative on Earth. The Beards and the Burqas who are willing to murder people to force people to acccept their backwards and illiterate interpretation of Islam.
Seculars represent the true peacful face of Islam, while the terrorists, extremists and fanatics, who are the true enemies of Islam, represent the most evil aspects of Human nature. Such people are against Islam and Pakistan.
Pakistan needs to improve, but secualrs are not a threat, they are the solution. The threat is from the beards and the Burqas, who would destroy and murder in the name of their backwards ways.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
I think your confused. You need to go back to your history, and actually read it this time... Pakistan was made for Muslims, not for Islam.
The founder of Pakistan was infact a secular person. And as much as you hate it, your views are irrelavant.
No one is speaking against Islam, people only talk against arrogance of people who think they are gods representative on Earth. The Beards and the Burqas who are willing to murder people to force people to acccept their backwards and illiterate interpretation of Islam. Seculars represent the true peacful face of Islam, while the terrorists, extremists and fanatics, who are the true enemies of Islam, represent the most evil aspects of Human nature. Such people are against Islam and Pakistan.
Pakistan needs to improve, but secualrs are not a threat, they are the solution. The threat is from the beards and the Burqas, who would destroy and murder in the name of their backwards ways.
Pakistan was actually made for Islam and to be an Islamic state. Yes, its founder was a secular-minded person. However, Pakistan was not created to satisfy his ego. He was a leader and as a leader he had a responsibility towards the people he led. His followers were pious Muslims who were prepared to give up their ethnic and national differences for the sake of common religion.
After all, Pakistan's various ethnic groups have to sacrifice ethnic solidarity and identity (including millennia of shared history) in order to advance the common cause of a Muslim homeland defined primarily by its Islamicness. For this reason, they demand (and rightly so) purity of doctrine and purity of faith.
This is why establishing an Islamic system is important as a way of reinforcing the cement that binds Pakistan's various communities together. Pakistan was also meant to be an experiment in supra-national co-operation amongst Muslims and to prove that Western (language-based) nationalism would not necessarily prevail over religion.
Seculars are therefore a threat since their ideologies would entail aping India and becoming a ******* cousin of Turkey.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
If people are dancing naked on the street [figuratively or you say "literally"? :D], it is because of you wahabi and deobandis that have maligned the religion so much that some people are running away from it. I know your kind makes fun of saints but it was their way of "leading by action" that is the ultimate path.
I don't think anyone makes "fun" of saints rather what is made of them, what is done in their names, what has become of their teachings etc.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
waoww as soon as the thread started
secular or you can say enimies of islam has started bombardment
they even declare Qauid e Azam as secular although he was great muslim not secular
Re: Getting rid of seculars
How do you plan to get rid of seculars..
Talban style or Khomeini style....
Do you think you will accomplish your mission like that....
Just one question in the end, would you be doing a favour ot Islam or you will destroy the image of Islam in the process.......
just as laqeed said in first post
you start figting and declaring other as taliban and khomeini style and starte bombardment
actually this is your hate against islam which is pushing you to this state
chee chee you so called secular people are not even able to understand what does secularisam means you just want to defame islam
Re: Getting rid of seculars
Actually I think really you don't have any idea what you are talking about. Do you really know what state Islam means. Do you have any idea under which circumstances it was implemented in the early periods of Islam and if Islam really requires us to implement the same in todays envoirnment. Do you have any idea what kind of state religion our Mullahs want to impose on us...
Reading from your posts it seems you are really confused...
On one hand you really admire the so called western ideologies, on the other you talk about getting rid of seculars. I think actually you don't know what you are talking about....
by ur this post , it is obvious how much you dislike islam
by start saying Mullah mullah etc etc
you are really consfused to how to defame islam and when nothing came into your hand you start talking mullah mullah
:d you even don't know in western ideologies there are almost every thing which islam says to implement in your country and muslim had implemented thoes in their state during Sahaba times and later
you are totally unaware of history my bahi
admiring western ideologies doesn't mean that we should admire their bad things as well
honest men only admire that is good and don't like that is bad
but slave only admire all good and bad things of their masters
Re: Getting rid of seculars
Can you explain sharia laws? Your statements have a lot of contrdictions...
1) You admire freedom of religion as they have in USA, while with strict sharia laws you can not allow any religion to bulid their places of worship. Which kind of sharia law you will implement in Pakistan?
2) Idol worshippers have to be killed or exiled from the country, what will you do?
3) You have to impose Jazia tax on Ahlekitaab.
4) There are many other details of what has to implemented under sharia, eg beard, music and entertainment, compulsory veiling etc etc. What will you do when you get rid of all the seculars?
Meray Bhai, all these things were time specific, I welcome you to 2007. If you try to mix Islam with state today you will do Islam the biggest damage.....
all your question shows your lack of knowledge about islam
sharia never says kill nonmuslims and you even impose jazia to only ahleykitaab and not to other non muslims
serious lack of knowledge
these things have been discussed a lot of time on gupshup
and mind you islam is for all time and it is not time specific
Re: Getting rid of seculars
I don't think anyone makes "fun" of saints rather what is made of them, what is done in their names, what has become of their teachings etc.
I don't think you are that naive but go visit the abdul qadir jilani thread..
Re: Getting rid of seculars
they even declare Qauid e Azam as secular although he was great muslim not secular
And your the one who is mocking every one's knowledge here..... way to go bud.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
Did any of the muslims ruler who ruled the sub-continent impose the Islamic system except Aurangzeb?
Islam did not start, end or was epitomized by the Mughal rulers. So please don't quote them as an example.
Either Muslims were not willing to live under Hindu rule or Hindus being in majority were not tolerant enough to accept Muslims.
That Muslims in a particular area were not willing to live under non-muslim rulers does not mean Islam does not provide a political/economic system. Muslims in Indian sub-continent have practiced rituals for centuries that have got absolutely nothing to do with Islam.
Anyway Pakistan was by no means created for imposition of Islam.
Sure.
Islamic system demised at the end of 2nd period of Khilafat.
U realise u r negating ur own self? at first u said Islam does not provide a political system and in the same breath u've claimed that Islamic system died at the end of 2nd khilafat.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
few changes like ..Iran's Rahbar concept....of being superor to all institutions..and few others..muslims can follow hanafi..shafi...hanbali..and maliki..etc etc ..in thier perspective countries...
belive me..in 56 islamic countries...there is only leader who is a MAN ..Amedi Najad of Iran....
You are so far off from reality, my friend. You have no idea about Iran and its internal politics. I shall try to get some of my Iranian friends to come and write here and let you know the truth.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
we will be more than happy to welcome these educated secularists to india and will give them instant indian citizenship.coz today we know the importance of educated and enlightened people in the developement of our society.so plz send all ur educated class in karachi to mumbai and those in pak -punjab to indian punjab.in lieu of ur this friendly gesture we will send our hard core advanis,modis, thakare to pak.coz pak needs hardcore people as u said.that way india will be much better n peaceful place to live in.
one sugesstion i want to make hee : y dont we swap pak educated secular class population with indian hardcore ones like we did during partition.
btw advani is from karachi he will be happy enough to go to his motherland.
PS Taslima Nasreen has applied for indian citizenship and im sure she will get it soon:)
Re: Getting rid of seculars
Correct... No wonder we are in a mess today.... They were all fools , building palaces and harams and what not...all ayyashi....so that explains why Muslim India was not able to match the British or even the Ottomans.
boss british and as a matter of fact whole europe progressed through the periods of Renaissance and industrial revolution by separating relegion from state.so u cant say that europe progressed by imposing the writ of bible.
what u r hooting here for the islamic rule and shariyat.infact no society can progress when u mix religion with politics.religion as a matter of fact shud be the personal thing rather than the state one.
Re: Getting rid of seculars
Pakistan was actually made for Islam and to be an Islamic state. Yes, its founder was a secular-minded person. However, Pakistan was not created to satisfy his ego. He was a leader and as a leader he had a responsibility towards the people he led. His followers were pious Muslims who were prepared to give up their ethnic and national differences for the sake of common religion.
After all, Pakistan's various ethnic groups have to sacrifice ethnic solidarity and identity (including millennia of shared history) in order to advance the common cause of a Muslim homeland defined primarily by its Islamicness. For this reason, they demand (and rightly so) purity of doctrine and purity of faith.
This is why establishing an Islamic system is important as a way of reinforcing the cement that binds Pakistan's various communities together. Pakistan was also meant to be an experiment in supra-national co-operation amongst Muslims and to prove that Western (language-based) nationalism would not necessarily prevail over religion.
Seculars are therefore a threat since their ideologies would entail aping India and becoming a ******* cousin of Turkey.
Pakistan was founded by MAJ, not some bearded Mullah... And its a fact of history that Pakistan was created in consideration of the Political and religous aspirations of Muslims... This does not mean that Pakistan was made as a theocratic state...
Jinnah said it himself... As miuch as you like to refuse the fact that Pakistan was NOT created to be a theocratic Islamic state, the ground realities soeak for themselves.
All Pakistanis are guaranteed the right to practice their relgion, but that is not the bussines of the state, and it never will be.
Whether you like it or not, Pakistan was created by Jinnah to be a secular country, in which Muslim are the majority, much like Turkey, except Pakistan wouldnt be as confrontational towards Islam.