You are comparing two very different traditions. Killing daughters is morally and ethically wrong, and nothing in the world can justify this pathetic tradition. On the other hand, a son living in the same house as his parents after getting married makes sense. Parents wont be lonely and depressed, grandkids will get to learn a lot from grandparents, grandkids will have so many loving figures around, there will be someone to look after the children when both husband and wife are out. This setting is convenient. But of course if in laws are controlling and intruding, it makes sense to live somewhere else.
Like you pointed out, there will be complications if daughters and their husbands live with their parents. Unless maternal grandparents dont have sons, why would they be lonely?
It is also morally and ethically wrong to deprive one sex from having the same level of involvement and long-term support with their parents just cos its "tradition".
My point isn't to say that sons shouldn't live with their parents - rather, sons and daughters BOTH have responsibilties to their parents and their own spouses/children. If we expect a woman to balance her duties to her own parents + her husband... the same should be expected of a son. If that entails moving out to provide a better life for his wife/kids, so be it. It shouldn't be all "haww hayyee, becharay dada/dadi/ILs" if the son moves out.
If anything, we need to support DILs being able to support/take care of their own parents... Islamically, it's their duty as well. But we conveniently forget that bit.
Aurat hi apni sabse bari dushman hai...someone said it so well.
Women make these rules for other women.
Bajai iskay ke kisi aur ki beti se umeed rakhein ke humaray pair dho dho ke piyay...hum apni auladon ko aisa kyun na banayen? Our culture is messed up.
All of us have responsibilities towards OUR OWN parents...not in-law's. If women stopped expecting their DIL's to do things their own daughters should be doing...the world would be a better place. If they raised men...instead of little boys...the world would be an even better place. If they instilled morals and manners instead of "here, eat"...we'd be on top of the world.
Ideally it would be great if all Pakistani women were like that. It would be great to have parents who have activities that keep them occupied so that leaving them behind wont feel like a crime. I mean who can deny that living alone after marriage is more fun than living with in laws. Some one above mentioned her phupi, that kinda love can be confining and choking.
Most women from the previous generation were NOT working women, and their lives revolved around their children. Can we now blame them for loving their children too much?
An aunt of mine worked all her life, and is still working. Her kids are married, and live in different cities. She never really complains but everyone can sense sadness in her voice. She isnt the same person anymore. No matter how many activities and hobbies you have, there will still be emptiness inside if you get to see your kids only a couple of times a year.
You're still missing the point here lol. For those of us who do not live in Pakistan/India and whose families have not for at least a generation or two the scenarios Reha and I have shown of independent and active women are not exceptions to the rule, but rather the norm now. I honestly can count on one hand the number of joint family scenarios that I know of here. And there is nothing wrong with that. Nor is there anything wrong with families who choose to go the joint living route. It's a personal preference. Why are you so hell bent on making it negative and injust?
It is also morally and ethically wrong to deprive one sex from having the same level of involvement and long-term support with their parents just cos its "tradition".
My point isn't to say that sons shouldn't live with their parents - rather, sons and daughters BOTH have responsibilties to their parents and their own spouses/children. If we expect a woman to balance her duties to her own parents + her husband... the same should be expected of a son. If that entails moving out to provide a better life for his wife/kids, so be it. It shouldn't be all "haww hayyee, becharay dada/dadi/ILs" if the son moves out.
If anything, we need to support DILs being able to support/take care of their own parents... Islamically, it's their duty as well. But we conveniently forget that bit.
One of my friends got told she isn't allowed to go home for a visit and when the argument escalated it turned into the dude saying his parents are more important than hers. That is literally the Pakistani mentality. And the guy does not spend free time with his parents. At all. It's like he got a wife to be a surrogate for him. Another lady I know gets so much flack for sending her parents money that she earns herself from her inlaws. The guy's parents are special pretty butterflies mentality is so prevalent. It's attitude like this is why female infanticide happens in Pakistan. Create unequal, unislamic situations and people will find unislamic solutions. It's that simple.
1) Don't make up things out of thin air. I never wrote that you and I can do anything overnight.
Yes you didnt say that, not directly anyway.
2) Cultural norms/traditions don't have overnight. It takes time. Every major cultural change takes time. But it all starts with every day people like us and how we think/handle situations. By supporting the idea that a bahu should live with the in-laws simply b/c the inlaws are lonely/sad/need to be closer to their grandkids etc.....and refusing the apply the same treatment to the bahu's parents is hypocritical. Change won't even start to happen as long as people continue to support ideas like this. If a friend of mine was feeling this way, I would ask her what I wrote earlier.......whether she feels the same way about leaving her mother. If a bahu can deal with the guilt of leaving her own mother, then she can deal with the guilt of leaving MIL. If a woman's mother can handle the sadness from having her daughter move out, then a MIL can deal with the sadness of having her son move out. Change happens in baby steps. As women, it's up to us to lead this cultural norm by treating all other women the same instead of giving special treatment to a woman b/c she gave birth to a boy (which btw leads to plenty of problems even before the boys get married).
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Like I said, traditionally girls leave their parent's house after marriage. Girls and their moms are used to that, they know it will happen. But parents do not expect their sons to move out after they get married. Whether this practice is right or wrong is another debate altogether, but this is how it is like it or not.
Most parents give dowry to their daughters after marriage, why dont husbands get dowry too? MILs criticize their DILs for trivial stuff like getting up at 11 am instead of 10 am, not doing dishes on time etc, would they dare say such things to their son in law? Never! Dont MILs in our culture give more respect to their sons in law than DILs? Arent most MILS misogynists? Do you think most son in laws will treat their MILs and DILs with respect if they move in with them, given the mentality of our Pakistani men who dont even respect their own wives, let alone their parents.
In a perfect world everything will happen like the way you want.
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3) LOL.....I don't know about your parents but mine don't need a damad or anyone else to serve them chai. Both my parents are more than capable and willing to make their own chai.
Guess I need to teach some people a thing or two about figurative language. But anyways, may Allah give long life and health to your parents.
^ Your response reminds of the saying about beating a dead horse. :hinna: Anyway, good luck to you with consoling your friend on “leaving” her poor MIL behind.
Bahu is a wife first...and when she is a mother...she is a mother first...all of these rishtay come before the title of "DIL".
I dont agree. One can be mother and daughter and wife at the same time. Putting one down relationship down for the other is what creates problem. Similarly, guys consider themselves son before husband. Why can't they be both son and husband? because they don't want to try harder, same with women who think that way
You're still missing the point here lol. For those of us who do not live in Pakistan/India and whose families have not for at least a generation or two the scenarios Reha and I have shown of independent and active women are not exceptions to the rule, but rather the norm now. I honestly can count on one hand the number of joint family scenarios that I know of here. And there is nothing wrong with that. Nor is there anything wrong with families who choose to go the joint living route. It's a personal preference. Why are you so hell bent on making it negative and injust?
Like I said before, I think it would be great if all women were like that. And refer to my previous posts, I have given the example of a relative who works, yet she still misses her kids when she come backs home. Not that she ever complained, but we all can sense it.
And sorry if it came across like that, thats not what I meant. I am only saying that if you can continue living with inlaws, if they are nice people who arent bothering you, why leave? Why make a mother suffer just because her focus was only on her kids? Can she go back and make changes in her life?
I can say the same about you, but wont. And just btw my friend doesnt require any consoling, she believes she made the right decision, but some of her siblings and relatives are not so sure of that, neither am I.
Like I said before, I think it would be great if all women were like that. And refer to my previous posts, I have given the example of a relative who works, yet she still misses her kids when she come backs home. Not that she ever complained, but we all can sense it.
And sorry if it came across like that, thats not what I meant. I am only saying that if you can continue living with inlaws, if they are nice people who arent bothering you, why leave? Why make a mother suffer just because her focus was only on her kids? Can she go back and make changes in her life?
Because everyone, everyone on this planet, animal or human has a desire to have a house of their own. Even if your ILs are angels on this earth, let's face it, it's not YOUR house. It's your saas and susar's. It's a house that the susar "built" with his hands, and the saas decorated it with hers. Why is it wrong for a woman in our society then to want the same thing? To call a house of her own then, to treat it as she wants, and not feel like a permanent guest holed up in one room?
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Why make a mother suffer just because her focus was only on her kids?
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Why make another mother suffer as well when she doesn't get to see her daughter and her grandchildren? Isn't she a maa as well? If you have a family situation like Reha or Khattchic, where there are only daughters in that family, does that mean that that mother doesn't get any sahara at all? She's meant to live a life of loneliness then?
Isn't it better then to have everyone living independently in their own houses, as long as they're capable of doing that?
I can say the same about you, but wont. And just btw my friend doesnt require any consoling, she believes she made the right decision, but some of her siblings and relatives are not so sure of that, neither am I.
If your friend is perfectly happy and satisfied with her decision, then it shouldn't bother you. No need to turn into a busybody and analyze something that doesn't need analyzing. Once people stop doing that, the world will be a much better place with less conflicts.
I dont agree. One can be mother and daughter and wife at the same time. Putting one down relationship down for the other is what creates problem. Similarly, guys consider themselves son before husband. Why can't they be both son and husband? because they don't want to try harder, same with women who think that way
You can be 5 things if you want...I am talking about your priorities.
And since when is prioritizing putting down?
Men: if your mother and father are not your priority...please don't expect anyone else to make them their's. Yes, that means serving them chai, breakfast, lunch, dinner keeping track of their medical records, taking them to appointments, etc. ALL of it. YES, its YOUR job...not your wife's.
You can be 5 things if you want...I am talking about your priorities.
And since when is prioritizing putting down?
Men: if your mother and father are not your priority...please don't expect anyone else to make them their's. Yes, that means serving them chai, breakfast, lunch, dinner keeping track of their medical records, taking them to appointments, etc. ALL of it. YES, its YOUR job...not your wife's.
No one is talking about priorities. We were talking about relationships - putting ones relationship over the other. And who said wife needs to keep medical records? You miss the point overtime sigh
Because everyone, everyone on this planet, animal or human has a desire to have a house of their own. Even if your ILs are angels on this earth, let's face it, it's not YOUR house. It's your saas and susar's. It's a house that the susar "built" with his hands, and the saas decorated it with hers. Why is it wrong for a woman in our society then to want the same thing? To call a house of her own then, to treat it as she wants, and not feel like a permanent guest holed up in one room?
Why make another mother suffer as well when she doesn't get to see her daughter and her grandchildren? Isn't she a maa as well? If you have a family situation like Reha or Khattchic, where there are only daughters in that family, does that mean that that mother doesn't get any sahara at all? She's meant to live a life of loneliness then?
Isn't it better then to have everyone living independently in their own houses, as long as they're capable of doing that?
If I am speaking for something, doesnt mean I am speaking against the other. I know people like Reha or Khattichic who have kept their parents with them. This isnt a war or something. If its possible for you to live with parents then do, if its not then move away.
If your friend is perfectly happy and satisfied with her decision, then it shouldn't bother you. No need to turn into a busybody and analyze something that doesn't need analyzing. Once people stop doing that, the world will be a much better place with less conflicts.
/twocents.
I apologize to everyone on this forum for feeling bad for a women who looked after her DIL like her own daughter, who used to make 10 dishes for her DIL when she was expecting so that she would eat something, who was mentally prepared that her son and DIL will leave one day, but is missing them terribly now.
I also apologize for coming here like a busybody and posing this question because I was just wondering whether its ok for a girl to make her husband leave such loving parents because who knows I might find myself in a similar position in the future.
If I am speaking for something, doesnt mean I am speaking against the other.
Well...you kinda are...
I know people like Reha or Khattichic who have kept their parents with them.
And you still don't get what they're saying as well? Interesting...
This isnt a war or something. If its possible for you to live with parents then do, if its not then move away.
Right, and if we all agree with the same thing, why the conflict? Isn't that what your friend did? But you're not happy with that decision of hers. And isn't it what the others here in this thread are also saying, which you're vehemently disagreeing with and not seeing their point.
I apologize to everyone on this forum for feeling bad for a women who looked after her DIL like her own daughter, who used to make 10 dishes for her DIL when she was expecting so that she would eat something, who was mentally prepared that her son and DIL will leave one day, but is missing them terribly now.
I also apologize for coming here like a busybody and posing this question because I was just wondering whether its ok for a girl to make her husband leave such loving parents because who knows I might find myself in a similar position in the future.
I don't get it. On one hand you're saying that the MIL was prepared that her kids will leave the nest, and on the other hand you're accusing your friend of possibly the biggest crime ever committed of practically forcing her husband out of his childhood home. Why put all the blame on the girl? If the guy was that attached to his mother who took such good care of his wife, wouldn't he want to stay in his parent's house? Why would he leave then? Why wouldn't he want his wife to be taken care of even more by his mother, and stay in his own house, and take on the expenses of maintaining another house? Let's be fair, 2 people left that house, and everyone in that house according to you knew it was meant to happen, so I honestly fail to see a huge issue here. Yes, the MIL was nice. Yes your friend is lucky enough to have a MIL who treats her like her own daughter, and yes she misses her kids, but it does not in any way mean that your friend has done anything terrible or like you've said a few times already, MAKE her husband leave his parents. It's absolutely ridiculous the spin you keep putting on an issue that frankly speaking the 3 people in question are more well versed about and know more about than you who is an outside unless you happen to be living with them and eating and drinking with them day in and out. And even then, you can never ever know the true feelings and sentiments of someone because only that person will know it. Is it possible that the MIL is possibly paying lip service and is saying she misses her kids? Yes! It's entirely possible. And it's absolutely possible that the MIL is also GLAD that she doesn't have to cook 10 dishes for 1 person and only has to make a simple salan roti for her and her husband. And she might even be glad she has the one lone bathroom in the house all to herself again finally. Because it's possible that while her bahu rani is taking a long ass shower, she has to wash her hands to cook 10 more dishes for her while her roti is burning on the choolha.