Getting a place of your own

Lifestyle Relationships
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21

Re: Getting a place of your own

Quality over quantity for sure. When you're apart people will make time to meet each other, plan picnics, brunches, dinners. If no one is making the effort than even living in the same quarters is not going to foster love that didn't exist. And when people live together they take each other for granted. So the random moments of passing each other in the hallway seem to be time spent together when it really isn't.

And most folks think marriage = ability to make your decisions. If that doesn't happen like one of my friends is not allowed to buy new clothes for her kids without her mil present then it's not going to make anyone happy.

22

Re: Getting a place of your own

THIS.

As much as Id like to live alone after my marriage, the idea of leaving behind his aging parents dont appeal much to me. The guilt will be too much. Unless you are having issues of any sort (fights, restrictions, lack of privacy, rokna tokna), why leave?

23

Re: Getting a place of your own

They live in the US. That means no maids. They do have helpers who come twice a week, but thats it. My friend went to university after getting married, and her MIl did ALL the work, even her share of work, so that her studies wont be affected.

As far as the whole world is concerned, they dont live in close families. They all live independent lives. So you cant really compare a Pakistani family with the rest of the world.

24

Re: Getting a place of your own

Well its a tradition that girls leave their family after getting married. Their mothers did the same, their grand mothers did the same. Guys are called burhapay ka sahara for a reason!

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^ That's very flawed logic - it's tradition in India to kill female children... their mothers did it, grandmothers did... son's are not called burhapay ka sahaara for no reason! Kill those baby girls.

Some traditions and cultural practices are stupid and ridiculous. They should be eradicated. One of the most prevalent in South Asians is the idea that a girl must leave behind her own family and be her ILs/husbands thru and thru. Each human being has rights and responsibilties to EVERY relationship in their life. Spousal and parental dutis are first and foremost. Then comes everything else. If we expect the son to be his parents sahara and companion in old age... a daughter has the same responsibility to her parents. Maternal grandparents can become just as lonely without their grandkids. It goes both ways.

On the other hand, it's also understood that a man can't live with his wifes family bcos essentially he takes over for her well-being etc frm her parents (Islamically speaking). But we take it a million steps further and shove this joint family system, DIL-guilt on every women and justify is using Islam. Islam preaches balance and justice. Why don't we start their rather than "husband is majazi khuda" or "burhapay ka sahara". Will do leaps and bounds of good for our crappy society.

Sorry for the long post.

26

Re: Getting a place of your own

why are people being so negative regarding the mil? op mentioned she was a nice person and loving so why is her sadness about the kids leaving home is being mocked?

if a parent can feel the pain of leaving their daughter then.a parent can feel hurt when the son leaves.

op is lucky that the mil is not making a drama or stopping the couple from moving out.

now coming to feeling horrible about leaving, op must have developed a healthy and loving relationship with her inlaws and so the guilt feelings. op will just have to deal with the feeling and hope for the best.

27

Re: Getting a place of your own

You are comparing two very different traditions. Killing daughters is morally and ethically wrong, and nothing in the world can justify this pathetic tradition. On the other hand, a son living in the same house as his parents after getting married makes sense. Parents wont be lonely and depressed, grandkids will get to learn a lot from grandparents, grandkids will have so many loving figures around, there will be someone to look after the children when both husband and wife are out. This setting is convenient. But of course if in laws are controlling and intruding, it makes sense to live somewhere else.

Like you pointed out, there will be complications if daughters and their husbands live with their parents. Unless maternal grandparents dont have sons, why would they be lonely?

28

Re: Getting a place of your own

True.
Even before my friend got married, her MIL was discussing the possibility of them moving out after their marriage. She is a very broad minded person. But if she isnt coping well after their departure, how is it her fault? Do parents need to be weak and old to have the privilege of their children's company? Do they have to wait for weekends and special occasions to meet their kids?

29

Re: Getting a place of your own

There is nothing wrong in girl asking for a separate place to live (if guy can afford it) but that does not frees husband from the his duties towards his parents. He sill has to and should take care of parents and in doing that wife should be accommodating. I have seen many cases in which girl think that since they have moved, husband should contain himself to his new how more...

30

Re: Getting a place of your own

Someone I know made an interesting point a few days ago.

She was thinking of taking up a hobby...photography, painting, volunteering, etc.

I asked her why? She has her hands full with her kid at home plus working full time.

She said that's true for now but someday he will leave. He will go to school, work, get married and who knows where that will take him (she has only one child - a boy - there are no plans for another). I don't want to sit home and wait for him every night. I want to stay busy, productive and be happy that way...plus if I don't he will always feel guilty doing things for himself. He will be too worried about me to really enjoy life.

I was surprised at this answer but...found it refreshing...and practical.

Yes...this woman was Muslim and Pakistani.

Hm.

31

Re: Getting a place of your own

Good for her. I'm at that age where half the people are married and half are not so it's really freaky to see mothers without a single activity beyond their kids. No interests, not even dastarkhwan walay shows. It's these type of people who will just wither away. In my family once you hit 50 vacations with husband, house riding, painting, fashion designing all begin because these women have been waiting for ages for their kids to become independent so they can start having fun again. My mother is accumulating art supplies for after I get married. Lmao. Like we don't spend so much time together in the first place do its not like I'm stopping her or anything but she's making plans. I will not be surprised if she takes a solo foreign trip somewhere.

Ps: I did suddenly remember my phupi (okay don't laugh guys. She's a really nice lady) who doesn't go out of the house so for her it would hell on earth to live alone. The first time her son went out to eat out with his new wife she called up my dad to complain because she couldn't understand why anyone wanted to eat out and how it wasn't normal. My dad had to make her promise she wasnt going to say anything when they came back home. She lives in a small town so I get why someone like her could choke living alone.

32

Re: Getting a place of your own

One last thing...we are four girls...no boys. My parents don't have a bahu. When I moved out (was the last to go)...they were sad. So was I. It meant them being alone at home.

In the beginning, we struggled. I to stay home and not run to them all the time. And them to stop missing me.

With time, they've learned some things and so have I:

It is not wrong for people who are older with kids that are not living with them to do things on their own. Its good for them.

Our parents are stronger than we think...hello...they raised us!

Now, mom has a full schedule. She has a seniors group she joined and hangs out with on Thursdays. She attends a ladies lunch Tuesdays. Fridays she likes to be home. Mondays she grocery shops. Wednesdays she cooks.

Dad goes everywhere with her except the ladies' thing. And he grocery shops! And he goes to nearby parks for walks! He never did this when I was living there because one of us would take care of everyyyyyyyyyyyything!

Seeing them like this makes me happy. What's wrong with leading a full and busy life?

33

Re: Getting a place of your own

There is no right or wrong answer here to this age old question, however, I think that one thing is not being highlighted here...the changing dynamics of family's settled abroad. I have no brothers, but I'll still use my mom as an example. She settled in the US as a young newlywed over 40 years ago. She had a career, raised her kids, volunteered, was involved in local civic politics, had a very active social life etc. She wasn't the type to sit at home getting bored waiting for her kids or damads or bahus (if she had one lol) to take her somewhere or do something for her. When she wanted to be with her grandkids (which was all the time lol!) she'd call us up and say "get his shoes on I'm coming to pick him up) and that was that. We would drop in whenever we wanted, and usually had dinner over there about 2-3 times a week. I think for those of us who are now born and raised here in the US, this will be the case too. I don't see anyone in my family/social circle being the type that needs to be cared for or live in a joint family system.

I have 3 boys mashallah, and that's the type of scenario I see for myself with my sons and their spouses. I don't need or even want to live in a joint family set up with them. I don't understand the purpose. My husband and I have already planned and secured our retirement to where we won't ever have to be dependent on our kids.

As far as grandkids go, I can and should be able to see them whenever I want, it's not necessary to live under the same roof for that. I have friends whose inlaws take the kids on fabulous vacations and trips every year...just the grandparents and grand kids. I think that so special. I don't want my future daughter in laws to every feel like there is a competition with me for anything. Hopefully the love and bond will be there that is born out of mutual respect. And as far as care goes in old age, well, hopefully the foundation and values I have instilled in my boys will prove fruitful in that if there is ever a need and their father and I cannot care for ourselves, we won't have to worry about them not ever stepping in to do their duty.

34

Re: Getting a place of your own

Right…and its this exact mentality that leads women to suffer in our culture. As the saying goes…women are their own worst enemies. We don’t need men to make us unhappy. Amazing how we women ourselves can treat one other as second-class citizens in the name of tradition. Don’t complain if your daughter moves out after marriage and don’t expect the same level of involvement as the husband’s parents in the grandchildren’s lives…b/c that’s how things have been done for generations. :chai:

35

Re: Getting a place of your own

Its simple is that islamiclly son supposed to take care of parents not daughters.

36

Re: Getting a place of your own

Ideally it would be great if all Pakistani women were like that. It would be great to have parents who have activities that keep them occupied so that leaving them behind wont feel like a crime. I mean who can deny that living alone after marriage is more fun than living with in laws. Some one above mentioned her phupi, that kinda love can be confining and choking.

Most women from the previous generation were NOT working women, and their lives revolved around their children. Can we now blame them for loving their children too much?

An aunt of mine worked all her life, and is still working. Her kids are married, and live in different cities. She never really complains but everyone can sense sadness in her voice. She isnt the same person anymore. No matter how many activities and hobbies you have, there will still be emptiness inside if you get to see your kids only a couple of times a year.

37

Re: Getting a place of your own

lol so you think you and I can change cultural norms over night? You try that. Get your bro rukhsatied and get a damad for your parents who will serve them chai every morning. And while you are at it, ask your husband for some dowry too.

38

Re: Getting a place of your own

lol so you think you and I can change cultural norms over night? You try that. Get your bro rukhsatied and get a damad for your parents who will serve them chai every morning. And while you are at it, ask your husband for some dowry too.

39

Re: Getting a place of your own

Few thoughts:

1) Don't make up things out of thin air. I never wrote that you and I can do anything overnight.

2) Cultural norms/traditions don't have overnight. It takes time. Every major cultural change takes time. But it all starts with every day people like us and how we think/handle situations. By supporting the idea that a bahu should live with the in-laws simply b/c the inlaws are lonely/sad/need to be closer to their grandkids etc.....and refusing the apply the same treatment to the bahu's parents is hypocritical. Change won't even start to happen as long as people continue to support ideas like this. If a friend of mine was feeling this way, I would ask her what I wrote earlier.......whether she feels the same way about leaving her mother. If a bahu can deal with the guilt of leaving her own mother, then she can deal with the guilt of leaving MIL. If a woman's mother can handle the sadness from having her daughter move out, then a MIL can deal with the sadness of having her son move out. Change happens in baby steps. As women, it's up to us to lead this cultural norm by treating all other women the same instead of giving special treatment to a woman b/c she gave birth to a boy (which btw leads to plenty of problems even before the boys get married).

3) LOL.....I don't know about your parents but mine don't need a damad or anyone else to serve them chai. Both my parents are more than capable and willing to make their own chai.

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Wrong. The Quran says "children" must fullfil their duties to their parents. Children means male & female.

And also.. what if someone only has daughters? Duh.