Gay Adoption

Re: Gay Adoption

^ First of all there is more to it than religion.

Even if its the religion, major religions including christianity, islam and judaism all promote gayism as immoral so islam is not alone there. Hence there is no need to bring islam only to discussion.

There should not be any 'hatred' against gays and as human being they must be 'loved' just as anyone else.

Children also need love and ultimate care of physical as well as emotional needs without getting them confused of their identity at so tender age.

If gays are confused or even sure of their inclinations, this should not give them right to bring up children in their kind of environment.

Having said that, even heterosexual people must be otherwise qualified to adopt children and their quality as being rich and being able to provide shelter alone should not make them adopt.

Fair enough?

Re: Gay Adoption

First of all you are assuming that gender identity is static. In gay relationships there is a difference in roles that can clearly be established. Moreover, your idea of gender roles is very traditionalist and does not assume that these identities can be fluid. With that in thought there is absolutely no reason for a child to not get the necessary rearing from a gay or lesbian family. The only argument you have is contingent upon the idea that a gay relationship is emotionally different than a heterosexual relationship which is absolutely not true. The only thing the child will have to understand is that there are different types of relationships between man and woman, man and man, and woman and woman.

if you assume that race relations are similar to gender relations , you can equate it to interracial marriage. "Why does mommy not look like daddy?" All these things are based on the idea of *difference * and it is the bigotry which makes a distinction between this difference and creates this intersectionality of politics that targets the *new *"other". At the end of the day, if a child grows up in a loving and supportive environment with parents who happen to be gay, the only difference is that they will have that experience of having gay parents, nothing more.

Just look at them...just look at homos, all they talk about is anal sex. Look at the gay celebes on tv, look at their "pride" parades, the only thing they represent is anal sex.

i'm not even going to entertain this false, incredibly ignorant comment.

:omg:

just type 'gay' in google bar and go to images.

And don't assume that the only knowledge I've got about gays is from google.

Re: Gay Adoption

If gays want babies let them make babies.

Its counterintutitive to give gays fruit of heterosexual relationship, the very process they have rejected.

Well said.

Re: Gay Adoption

shall the gays and lesbians breed the future and give birth to kids, then I will let them adopt childrens

The problem with Gay Adoption is is that most parents in Muslim countries would rather have their kids raised in orphanages then a gay home . Why? simply because, whether we like it or not, Allah swt has harsh words for them. The story or Lut (as) is one example in the Quran.
“And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people: What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you? Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people. And the answer of his people was no other than that they said: Turn them out of your town, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves). So We delivered him and his followers, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind. And We rained upon them a rain; consider then what was the end of the guilty.”7:80–84

“The people of Lut gave the lie to the messengers. When their brother Lut said to them: Will you not guard (against evil)? Surely I am a faithful messenger to you; Therefore guard against (the punishment of) God and obey me: And I do not ask you any reward for it; my reward is only with the Lord of the worlds; What! do you come to the males from among the creatures And leave what your Lord has created for you of your wives? Nay, you are a people exceeding limits. They said: If you desist not, O Lut! you shall surely be of those who are expelled. He said: Surely I am of those who utterly abhor your actions. My Lord! deliver me and my followers from what they do. So We delivered him and his followers all, Except an old woman, among those who remained behind. Then We utterly destroyed the others. And We rained down upon them a rain, and evil was the rain on those warned. Most surely there is a sign in this, but most of them do not believe. And most surely your Lord is the Mighty, the Merciful.”26:160–175 (

“And (We sent) Lut, when he said to his people: What! do you commit indecency while you see? What! do you indeed approach men lustfully rather than women? Nay, you are a people who act ignorantly. But the answer of his people was no other except that they said: Turn out Lut’s followers from your town; surely they are a people who would keep pure! But We delivered him and his followers except his wife; We ordained her to be of those who remained behind. And We rained on them a rain, and evil was the rain of those who had been warned.”27:54–58

“And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people: Most surely you are guilty of an indecency which none of the nations has ever done before you; What! do you come to the males and commit robbery on the highway, and you commit evil deeds in your assemblies? But nothing was the answer of his people except that they said: Bring on us God’s punishment, if you are one of the truthful. He said: My Lord! help me against the mischievous people.”29:28–30

“And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them. And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.”4:15–16

**The hadithes also contain numerous statements condemning homosexuality.
It was narrated by Jaabir (may Allah be pleased with him): "The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: ‘There is nothing I fear for my ummah more than the deed of the people of Loot.’"

It was narrated that Ibn Abbaas said: “The Prophet Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: "… cursed is the one who has intercourse with an animal, cursed is the one who does the action of the people of Loot."

It was narrated that Ibn Abbaas said: "The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever you find doing the deed of the people of Loot, kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.’"

Another Hadith narrative reports Muhammad (s) as having said, “No man should look at the private parts of another man, and no woman should look at the private parts of another woman, and no two men sleep [in bed] under one cover.”

One narrative, attributed as part of Muhammad(s)'s farewell speech says, “Whoever has intercourse with a woman and penetrates her rectum, or with a man, or with a boy, will appear on the Last Day stinking worse than a corpse; people will find him unbearable until he enters hell fire, and God will cancel all his good deeds.”

As much as you would like to believe otherwise, Allah swt has pretty harsh words for homosexuals people. In summary, based on the hadithes and Quran, He says that they will be punished, ALL their good deeds will be canceled. That is why you won’t find any notable Islamic scholar, Imams, or even many Muslims supporting gay adoption. How can they when there are SO many a ayahs of The Quran and hadithes against them?

Taking Islam out of the picture- X2, pakifairy and all the supporters of gay adoption would be very correct in their viewpoint. But taking Islam out of the picture, why is adultery wrong, or why should we should even care about bestiality? or why do we even have the concept of marriage or morals? Why is prostitution wrong? The poor prostitue is just trying to make money- why strip her of that right? Why can’t a man have five wives? I know that this is a slippery slope arguement here- but this is how your average Abdullah thinks…For the average Muslim what is allowed and not allowed is based on what Muhammad (s) would do, what Allah swt has allowed him/her to do. And thus for the above question he/she seeks answers based on what on what the Quran/hadithes say- and the Quran /hadithes say that bestiality is wrong, adultery is wrong, prostitution is wrong, and in the same strain homosexuality is wrong…

Fact is, Islam forms the foundations of opinions of many people, because their BELIEF in ALLAH is STRONG- they believe strongly in hell and heaven and the words of the Quran, and that there are consequences for your actions that can lead you to Hell..

If Allah was okay with homosexuality, why would He have such strong words for them? Why would He repeatedly say that they are going to Hell for ETERNITY regardless of their other good deeds?

To convince the majority of Muslims of Gay adoption, these are questions you will have to answer first- Because as much as it would be nice to argue about homosexuality without involving religion it is pointless …Religions forms the WAY of LIFE AND OPINIONS for MANY MANY Muslims- from the moment they get up to the moment they go to bed. You can call these people small minded, back wards, but they have a valid point based the Quran and the hadithes…Why should they believe you, when Muhammad (s) said otherwise?

Gulab Jamun, extremely well said … and well explained.

I was wondering since yesterday how people can simply ignore religion and try to have a conversation on a subject whilst constantly saying "dont bring religion into it " …

We are muslims and should have complete faith in the holy book and the sunnah and must find all answers there .

Re: Gay Adoption

Oh man. I see people *****ing but of course, how many children have THEY adopted?

People preaching from their pulpits about what's right and wrong, yet they do nothing to ease the suffering of others. Let gay's adopt and let children grow up with loving parents instead of being forced to brave orphanages and foster homes (which btw in America a child is twice as likely to die from abuse in group homes, and abuse is 10x more in such, as well as 28x more the rate of sexual abuse in orphanages).

But yeah, that's obviously so much better than letting gays adopt simply because you don't like the way they have sex? Talk about messed up priorities!

Hell, by this logic let's not let single mothers raise their children, or allow couples to get a divorce because obviously, kids should have a mommy and a daddy--even if daddy beats mommy daily. Right?

Bull.

Re: Gay Adoption

God is the greatest thing of which any of us can conceive. I think it follows, however, that a God who has any sort of anthropomorphized limitation—such as anger or dislike or anything remotely resembling human emotion—is not the greatest thing of which we can conceive. Since as I am sitting here writing this I am conceiving of a God who is much greater than that, who is not so petty as to make bizarre rules about how, when, where, and whom one can love, it stands to reason that such a limited God goes not exist, and that in fact even my conception of God is limited. If the greatest thing the Muslim leaders and other religious leaders can conceive of is a God who is thus limited by the aforementioned things—namely dogma—I do not think it is God who is limited.

I am also perfectly certain that the leaders are wrong about this issue, like it has been wrong about so many things in history. Its current stand against homosexual sex is a convoluted argument that irreducibly binds sex to the creation of life, which simply makes no sense, since in the natural world those things are by their nature decoupled. Their exact same policy holds that impotent heterosexuals cannot get married and nor can infertile couples use IVF to have children, which are both reprehensible, nonsensical viewpoints, and are again inexcusable attempts at reducing the many forms of love into a palsied, weakened, single definition. It is not wrong in reality for impotent couples to get married or for infertile couples to have children through science or for gay people to have sex. Condemning gay people to such life condemns them to loneliness and constant sadness, and I can’t even begin to believe that is what God would want for any of us.

All of these things may be wrong in the eyes of the religious leaders, but we also know that that they have been unconscionably wrong before. Since we know this, we also know that believers must all necessarily take personal responsibility for forming their own consciences and senses of morality outside of the framework of their religion in order to lead just lives. While these leaders and sheikhs may be right on things, the fact that it has been so wrong before leaves the weight of morality on the shoulders of the individual and not on the religion. There are many truths out there, and many ways to view the world, and no one viewpoint can possibly encompass all of the wonder that is creation. You can choose to agree with everything your imams says, but in doing so, as an intelligent person, you also must implicitly realize all of the facts that I have mentioned above—that many Islamic groups and doctrines and interpretations have been wrong before, that its wrongs have caused significant hurt and anguish throughout time, that it is doing so as we speak, and that, by agreeing with it, you are perpetuating this injustice upon millions of people. Ultimately those who have done the most good in the world, including the Prophet (PBUH) himself, have set about forming and claiming their own morality in what amounts to a revolution against the entrenched status quo and the corruption and malfeasance present in the lumbering organized religion around them.

A gay man writes:
"I was actually unaware that my marriage—my joyous, wonderful, happy marriage—had any negative effect on anyone, and quite frankly I fail to see how it could. No one has a right to be hurt or upset about my being gay or my being married, and if they do that is entirely in their hearts and is quite frankly their problem that they need to keep to themselves. I am, too, a good and just person. I have volunteered and continue to volunteer my time with the poor, the sick, and the disenfranchised and have since I was a teenager. I was raised to be a man for others, and I will raise my children to be the same. I stand up for the rights of those who can’t stand up for themselves even in the face of overwhelming misunderstanding, opposition, and hate. I have been gay since I was born, and being gay is an immutable part of who I am. I am perfectly comfortable with it, and with where I sit in relation to God in regards to it, as well."

Re: Gay Adoption

Pakifairy, I heart you :)

Re: Gay Adoption

Awwwww so sweet :)!

Re: Gay Adoption

[QUOTE]
Let gay's adopt and let children grow up with loving parents instead of being forced to brave orphanages and foster homes
[/QUOTE]

Gays having or adopting children isn't natural end of. The way gays (gay men and gay women respectively) precieve relationships is completely different. For instance as a guy I cannot relate myself with a gay guy, how do you think that would affect a young boy growing with gay men e.g.? How on earth is he supposed to relate to people who go against the very natural human behaviour? How would this affect his growing up?

If it was natural gays would have had the ability to produce children, they don't. Says a lot.

Re: Gay Adoption

I guess you didn't read what I wrote at all. In that sense, you are continuing to post your opinion and state it without reading or conversing in any other dialogue. Makes no sense for a message board.
In any case, I will reiterate once again "Your exact same policy holds that impotent heterosexuals cannot get married and nor can infertile couples use IVF to have children, which are both reprehensible, nonsensical viewpoints, and are again inexcusable attempts at reducing the many forms of love into a palsied, weakened, single definition."

Re: Gay Adoption

I know 2 gay couples. Both couples are well educated with great salaries and the only thing missing from their lives (from their point of view) was a child to bring up.

One couple used one of their friends as a surrogate... lo and behold they have a child. the boy is now 18, has a girlfriend, and is studying at LSE.

The other couple adopted an orphan boy a while back from a developing country. This boy also has a girlfriend.

So the fact that 'gay parents' can influence a childs sexuality is a flawed theory.

Whilst i am totally against homosexuality, in the sense that i don't believe it to be right in any way, i have many gay friends, and they all know of my beliefs and opinions, and duly respect them. I am not one to judge, i myself am not a perfect human, so why should i come across all pious to others?? The fate of everyone lies only with Allah.

I agree with what X2 was touching on....way at the beginning of this thread. There are so many young innocent children in this world with nothing. If there is a couple out there that can offer love, security and shelter, then who are we to judge? This child will have better prospects in life and a better quality of life...

I've just realised that i know a lot of gay people (I'm not a fag hag!) but not any lesbians... not that i want to know any....

I almost spit my milk out reading this. Do you seriously think this way? That is... so incredibly ignorant.

And you obviously ignored what pakifairy and I wrote.

To humor you however, I can't naturally have children, so OBVIOUSLY it's unnatural for me to adopt kids because you know, as my ovaries don't work properly I obviously can't relate "normally," to other people.

Yes, that's some epic logic there. rolls eyes

That's ok, I'm fag hag enough for several thousand gay men. LOL