For me its unnatural. Human race would go extinct otherwise, however what anyone chooses to do, how much disgusting it may be to us, is their choice. Though I am of the view that whatever they do should be behind closed doors. This ‘over’ acceptance of gays isn’t right IMO, i.e. them allowed to adopt children, doesn’t a child deserve to be raised by a mother and a father instead of ‘two daddys’ or ‘two mummys’?
That isn’t natural and should be discouraged.
Re: homosexuality
shak lets assume for a second one is an orphan being raised in an orphanage .. assume russia or kazakhstan, not the best places to be poor let alone being the lowest on the totem pole of society, would that kid rather stay there or be in a loving home in surrey raised by gay parents. where would the child have better odds of success, better chance at life?
I am not addressing anything else but just the adoption part of the post.
No they shudnt be adopted by a gay couple. We already have to raise children in a society where they should assume homosexuality is the 'norm' and promoted. Raising them wid a pair of homosexuals will only mess there head up more.
Its all about perception, our views and opinions are largely based on what we are told and see as we grow up. If you raise a child in a gay couple there can be no doubt he will consider it more normal then a child who has 1 male and 1 female mother. Shudnt we have a right to protect our children from pro-gay stances?
shak lets assume for a second one is an orphan being raised in an orphanage .. assume russia or kazakhstan, not the best places to be poor let alone being the lowest on the totem pole of society, would that kid rather stay there or be in a loving home in surrey raised by gay parents. where would the child have better odds of success, better chance at life?
I am not addressing anything else but just the adoption part of the post.
UK is on top for most anti social teenage kids in Europe so I don't think it's the place or money that produces ethical human beings.
Also, it is important for children to recieve love from both sexes male and female as parents/guardians.
Re: homosexuality
X2 I very much like you views on adoption.
No they shudnt be adopted by a gay couple. We already have to raise children in a society where they should assume homosexuality is the 'norm' and promoted. Raising them wid a pair of homosexuals will only mess there head up more.
Its all about perception, our views and opinions are largely based on what we are told and see as we grow up. If you raise a child in a gay couple there can be no doubt he will consider it more normal then a child who has 1 male and 1 female mother. Shudnt we have a right to protect our children from pro-gay stances?
okay then, all people who are against gay adoption should then adopt these kids because an orphanage is not the best place for a kid to grow up?
have you been to any? have you seen how they grow up?
as far as perceptions go, do all gay people come from gay households? I know a number of gay people and from what I know they come from a home where there was a mother and a father.
we should protect "our children" from whatever we think is wrong, but sorry..kids sitting in an orphanage are not "our kids" not until we adopt them and bring them in our home and then we can say they are "our kids" and we have a right to protect then from pro-gay, pro-dentite, or pro-pastrami sandwich stances.
UK is on top for most anti social teenage kids in Europe so I don't think it's the place or money that produces ethical human beings. Also, it is important for children to recieve love from both sexes male and female as parents/guardians.
UK may be on top in that list, but it does not mean ALL kids are anti social teenage kids. it may not be the best place, but surely it is not the worst.
btw I was contrasting between being adopted by a gay couple or being raised in some orphanage. Go to an orphanage and see how the kids live, then you may have some empathy.
Its pretty sad that as a society we will make laws or propose laws to try and bloc adoption fo kids by gay couples or couples of a different faith or citizenship yet these socities fail these kids by not adopting them and just leaving them in orphanages.
this is by no mean a rude thread.. i just wanted to have a mature discussion about something which is openly prevelant around us..
ok.. its considered normal and acceptable to be of gay orientation.. and apparently its uncool to hate on the homos of this world
what are ur views on this.. id especially like to here from people in westerrn countries where its open..
You said you're not particularly religious and do not look at this issue through the eyes of religion - so I am really curious, why do you have a problem with homosexuality? I mean, on what grounds? Do you think gay folks are immoral?
Since most of us from the west have already mentioned that our experiences with gay people have been quite pleasant for the most part, they are very nice people but we do not accept homosexualiy nor promote or encourage it for ourselves, our families, our children, etc due to religious reasons. I am sure if it wasn't for religious guidance, we'd be open arms to homosexuals. So again, quite curious, why are you against it - if not due to religious reasons.
I am not even sure what you're asking when you say you want our views. I am assuming you want to know how we deal with homosexuality at work/school since we are for the most part of the opinion that it is an unnatural and sinful act? Well, just like we deal with alcohol and other public displays of sinful acts surrounding us. :)
Re: homosexuality
X2 it doesn't matter whether one is an orphan or not. Being bought by 'two daddys' or two 'mummys' instead of a mom and dad or single parent is unnatural however you look at it.
What gets me is that the gays' preception that homosexuality is somehow natural. It isn't. If it was there wouldn't be reproduction hecne there wouldnt be a single thing alive on earth.
Re: homosexuality
Of course, when you compare an orphanage to a home with a gay couple...the better option is adoption through a gay couple because they can provide for the child, give them a good home, etc.
But thats also true for a straight couple and there are plenty of straight couples interested in adoption...including myself. I have every intention of adopting a child when Im married. I even posted a thread about it a while back.
IMO, society has already blurred the lines between right and wrong SO much that its confusing for kids growing up in decent homes to make decisions. Why make it even more difficult? Why add to the mess and have to explain the two daddy and two mommy concept to a child who isnt capable of understanding it yet? What does it mean to be gay exactly? How do you translate that to kid-speak?
With all due respect X2, I completely understand your point but there are more than enough straight couples interested in adoption.
I dont think we should be hurting them or persecuting them, they seem like nice enough people most of the time. I also dont think its something we should encourage and promote though. Whether we look at it one way or another, we are after all Muslims and sometimes the rules we follow are not ones that we necessarily LIKE. For example, I saw all of my friends' crazy NY Eve pictures and they looked like they had a BLAST! My friends got to wear itty bitty dresses and have fun looking drinks. Guess what I did people? I was with my whole khandan having dinner at Khan BBQ on Devon at midnight. My idea of a fruity drink is a mango shake. My idea of an itty bitty dress is below the knees with knee high boots. Those are the rules people, we're not supposed to be out doing all that so we cant. Homosexuality is wrong no matter how sweet and fun our make up artist is.
The union of man and woman brings life...its the most blatant truth available to us.
X2 it doesn't matter whether one is an orphan or not. Being bought by 'two daddys' or two 'mummys' instead of a mom and dad or single parent is unnatural however you look at it.
and yet again the comparison was not between a father and mother vs 2 daddys or 2 mommys,
The comparison was between growing up in an orphanage versus growing up in a home, whether the parents are straight or gay.
I am not aware of any studies that show that being raised in an orphanage is better than growing up in a home.
Of course, when you compare an orphanage to a home with a gay couple...the better option is adoption through a gay couple because they can provide for the child, give them a good home, etc.
But thats also true for a straight couple and there are plenty of straight couples interested in adoption...including myself. I have every intention of adopting a child when Im married. I even posted a thread about it a while back.
With all due respect X2, I completely understand your point but there are more than enough straight couples interested in adoption.
P^2 with all due respect your noble intentions to adopt one or two or owever many children is not going to help the hundreds of thousands of kids who need to be adopted. we need hundreds of thousands of people like you.
I mean its similar to most muslims countries not allowing non muslims to adopt, and rather let the kids be raised in orphanages than have a shot at life...and yes I am aware of the arguments that they dont want kids to lose their faith..not that they know what faith the kids parents followed anyways. So we make rules that would be fine if there was a shortage of kids who needed to be adopted, but next time you are in pakistan, take a walk through hamdard facilities. see how many kids are just sitting there.
If there was a long waiting list of ppl who wanted to adopt and then someone said that a child should be raised by a regular couple than a gay couple I would agree, but that is simply not the case right now. if you want I can post pics of orphanages where kids are sleeping on the floor like sardines.
Re: homosexuality
There are brothers and sisters who love each other and fight so as to their love be approved. This is what people generally call “incest”. Incest is forbidden by laws like was forbidden homosexuality years ago. But brothers and sisters who have chosen to love each other have also the right to be recognized like gays are ? So, you people who defend homosexuality, I suppose you also defend incest between consenting adults ? I hope so because if you are disgusted of incest between consenting adults and reject the struggle of these brothers and sisters, your thought is illogical.
Do you put your moral barriers beyond homosexuality but before incest ? Or do you accept them both ?
Some links :
*(http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article4332635.ece)
“You can’t help who you fall in love with, it just happens. I fell in love with my sister and I’m not ashamed … I only feel sorry for my mom and dad, I wish they could be happy for us. We love each other. It’s nothing like some old man who tries to **** his three-year-old, that’s evil and disgusting … Of course we’re consenting, that’s the most important thing. We’re not ****ing perverts. What we have is the most beautiful thing in the world.”
incest: Definition from Answers.com
PS : I am totally tolerant towards gays but I don’t understand them, for me homosexuality is an anomaly.*
Re: homosexuality
The act is not good. Its not only islam, christianity and judaism also condemn it.
People being nice does not mean the act is good.
There are many habitual druggies who are very nice in this world.
Gays are only few percent in any community but due to their shore sharaba in media they are talked about so much.
They can potentially cause negative effect on an adopted child. Just like we do not opt to have orphans adopted by people with mental disorder there is nothing wrong in blocking orphans being adopted by gay couples.
Just because current day psychiatry has no definite criteria for some mental diseases, it has not been able to define gayism as a mental disorder. It is an unnatural and out of norm behaviour to say the least.
They can potentially cause negative effect on an adopted child. Just like we do not opt to have orphans adopted by people with mental disorder there is nothing wrong in blocking orphans being adopted by gay couples.
Just because current day psychiatry has no definite criteria for some mental diseases, it has not been able to define gayism as a mental disorder. It is an unnatural and out of norm behaviour to say the least.
declare homosexuality as a mental disorder and have that stance scientifically supported by medical experts and you may have a point.
at this point there is no credible study that claims that adoption by gayu parents is worse than a child growing up in an orphanage.
P^2 with all due respect your noble intentions to adopt one or two or owever many children is not going to help the hundreds of thousands of kids who need to be adopted. we need hundreds of thousands of people like you.
I mean its similar to most muslims countries not allowing non muslims to adopt, and rather let the kids be raised in orphanages than have a shot at life...and yes I am aware of the arguments that they dont want kids to lose their faith..not that they know what faith the kids parents followed anyways. So we make rules that would be fine if there was a shortage of kids who needed to be adopted, but next time you are in pakistan, take a walk through hamdard facilities. see how many kids are just sitting there.
If there was a long waiting list of ppl who wanted to adopt and then someone said that a child should be raised by a regular couple than a gay couple I would agree, but that is simply not the case right now. if you want I can post pics of orphanages where kids are sleeping on the floor like sardines.
X2, I have seen pictures and videos and have already made up my mind to do what I can to help. Believe me, you dont need to show me pictures of the devastation.
I know there are plenty of couples interested in adoption...straight Muslim Pakistani couples who dont have kids of their own. But seriously this discussion isnt about whether or not gay people can adopt. Its whether being gay is right or wrong. Its wrong to begin with, so how can homosexuality prepare you to be a parent?
X2 what would you say to a couple involved in an incestuous relationship wanting to adopt a child? By your logic as long as the kid was bought up in a 'loving' environment that would be ok right? Completing discarding the fact that the 'loving' couple are incestuous.
It doesn't matter how 'loving' parents gays can be. Letting them adopt would be wrong and unnatural.
declare homosexuality as a mental disorder and have that stance scientifically supported by medical experts and you may have a point.
at this point there is no credible study that claims that adoption by gayu parents is worse than a child growing up in an orphanage.
I do know very well bro that it is not considered a mental disorder and have a pretty good idea why.
Besides, do we need psychiatry to make something wrong or right?
The example you have given from beginning is self constructed and wanted people to come to expected answer.
One can make soooooo many of these kind of examples to make anything justified.
I just did not want not go in details of dissecting your example before.
one example:
Would you like a child to grow up in a slum area of a city than grow up in wealthy atheist family?
Answer: Lets get all poor and hungry children adopted by atheists.
Both options are not acceptable but question gave only two options. Not fair.
**We know in reality there are more than these two options.
**
The example you have given from beginning is self constructed and wanted people to come to expected answer.
One can make soooooo many of these kind of examples to make anything justified.
I just did not want not go in details of dissecting your example before.
one example:
Would you like a child to grow up in a slum area of a city than grow up in wealthy atheist family?
Answer: Lets get all poor and hungry children adopted by atheists.
Both options are not acceptable but question gave only two options. Not fair. We know in reality there are more than these two options.
I never came up with this topic, this topic was brought up by someone else. you may have missed it, but here it is as a refresher :)
*
This 'over' acceptance of gays isn't right IMO, i.e. them allowed to adopt children, doesn't a child deserve to be raised by a mother and a father instead of 'two daddys' or 'two mummys'?.
*
...now as far as there being more than 2 options I agree, there are. but the other options are not being used.
for a kid in an orphanage, either the kid gets adopted or not, the fact that there are so many kids in orphanages shows they are not adopted. In many of these countries there is no foster care system either and the orphanages are not well taken care of, they do their best but hey are not getting massive grants and donations.
so yes there are options, it is society's responsibility to make those options available, and if they cant then they can not complain about people who are not considered mentally unstable or criminals ffrom adopting those kids.
X2 what would you say to a couple involved in an incestuous relationship wanting to adopt a child? By your logic as long as the kid was bought up in a 'loving' environment that would be ok right? Completing discarding the fact that the 'loving' couple are incestuous.
the difference is that incest is considered a crime, homosexuality is not atleast where I live.
make it a crime, or call it a mental illness and then say no.
but where that is not the case there is no argument.
we may have religious beliefs against it, but not everyone follows that.
Re: homosexuality
off topic, but in relation to something X2 said regarding fostering:
there should be a system where muslim families can foster muslims.. i know they are starting something here in melbourne, they are finding the funding for it at the moment.. its a great idea :k: