"fun" in arrange marriages..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Munnay,

I've lived straight 14 years of my life in Pakistan and have never seen this kind of Biradiri, which you have been discussing for God Knows how long, not in educated families, at least. It could happen in villages of Pakistan, where educated people are hardly. And blaming village people wouldn't be justify since the Govt. doesn't invest in Education Sector.

Point proved. Case closed!
[/QUOTE]

Brother you are so simple. You might have been lucky enough not to face any discrimination on the basis of baradari but I have witnessed educated people like doctors and engineers rejecting & accepting rishtasa on the basis of bradari. Its very very very common, in fact it is one of the introductory question and main deciding factor.

Allah ka shukar hai jhankar aap bhi kahin sey aayin........mein tou samjha k aap bhool hi gayi hain thread khol kar aur sab ko larney k liye chord diya :p yeah, education is not much help here........woh kahtey hain na "parhey likhey jaahl", that :)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
What are you guys discussing?

Parents don't care about their children, Yawn!
[/QUOTE]

Parents do care about they children; they pick the "best" for them but what may be "BEST" to them, might not be the "BEST" for their child. Everybody has different priorities and often parents ignore their children’s preferences by simply telling them that they are more experience and will make the right decision. While it’s the kid who later suffers not them.

exactly :k:
you stole my words

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *

BEcause parents are human beings too... simple!
[/quote]

Yes, I know that

[quote]
And human beings make mistakes... or are you saying that parents cannot make mistakes?
[/QUOTE]

Did I say that? Don't make assumptions!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jhankar: *

Brother you are so simple. You might have been lucky enough not to face any discrimination on the basis of baradari but I have witnessed educated people like doctors and engineers rejecting & accepting rishtasa on the basis of bradari. Its very very very common, in fact it is one of the introductory question and main deciding factor.
[/QUOTE]

Honey,

You are too easy. What did I say about that Biradri stuff? Lack of education and education not at all.

Go figure

Did I ever said about unconditional support

Maybe, your parents aren’t good as mine are.

Lucky Me :hehe:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shikra: *
........woh kahtey hain na "parhey likhey jaahl", that :)
[/QUOTE]

Allah Raham Karay Tum Phir. Ameen :)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Allah Raham Karay Tum Phir. Ameen :)
[/QUOTE]

mujh par kyon? :)
agar mujhe iss muaamley mein reham ki zaroorat hoti tou mein parents ki side par hota, yahan betha argue na kar raha hota and i wouldn't be having a hard time to accept the fact that parents do make mistakes and sometimes they do it on purpose just to please society. and to say "my parents are better than yours" to different was a bit rude because no one said anything about your or his parents.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Yes, I know that

Did I say that? Don't make assumptions!
[/QUOTE]

I asked you a question....There is a difference between assumptions and questions...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Don't mix apple with oranges.

Why would parents certainly stop caring less in that part of their children, where the children need them most?

..and why would parents put biradi first than their own children? For money? Status? Respect? LAMO. Undoubtly, need of education ponders.

Which Biradi do you belong to?

[/QUOTE]

And I responded to these questions you had asked me...

It seemed to me that you were quite shocked to know that parents actually care about money, status, respect more than they do for their children....

You don’t have to say unconditional support explicitly, your response said it clearly enough for anyone to judge that you would give unconditional support to parents regardless of them being right or wrong!

Ok let's take a look at this one more time. You know how our Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) got married the first time. Let's compare it. There was a age difference. She was divorce and more over she was rich. This marriage happened at the same time when Arabs use to barry their daughters alive.

Can this kind of marriage happen in our society now? Not possible.

Why? Is this because of parents and biradri. You think like that I don't. There is difference in opinion.

I think it is not because they are brought up like that. They are made to think like that. They actually have followed same things like that. That's why they follow it like tradition. Right? So if you blame the biradri and the parents, is it going to solve the problem? No! You blame their parents and biradri. It is not going to work either because same thing they were brought up like that. It is like you are pointing towards the leaf and not going out to the roots.

You may disagree with what they say and it may seem insane to you. This is your view. Their view is that it is like a tradition, which needs to be followed. That's why I was saying that these parents think that it is good to do things like that. You thought that unconditional support? Huh.

So, lets focus here (since you don't know what the hell you are talking about) on why these people think like that? Are they really after money? Being in the age of near 50 and 60 they are thinking about money and not their children? I don't agree with that. What you say that 'parents are like human they could be wrong too' this is even not a statement. This is dumb. What are you trying to achieve here?

Anyway, so my questions are that without making any junk talk let me know:

What is the problem?
What is the root cause of the problem?
How to solve the problem?

What ever you have done in your post is nothing but, try to proof me wrong by lying about the unconditional support (which I denied several times), changing my post and proving your baseless point and more over giving pharases 'people like me'. You don't know me, neither my name and being so judemental. I can understand how low your IQ level could be. This is not a contest, it is problem that needs to be solved and all I have done so far is behave life a loyal opposition and argue. Sadly, you haven't done your part. Learn some manners and respect your opponent.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
Ok let's take a look at this one more time. You know how our Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) got married the first time. Let's compare it. There was a age difference. She was divorce and more over she was rich. This marriage happened at the same time when Arabs use to barry their daughters alive.

Can this kind of marriage happen in our society now? Not possible.

Why? Is this because of parents and biradri. You think like that I don't. There is difference in opinion.

I think it is not because they are brought up like that. They are made to think like that. They actually have followed same things like that. That's why they follow it like tradition. Right? So if you blame the biradri and the parents, is it going to solve the problem? No! You blame their parents and biradri. It is not going to work either because same thing they were brought up like that. It is like you are pointing towards the leaf and not going out to the roots.

You may disagree with what they say and it may seem insane to you. This is your view. Their view is that it is like a tradition, which needs to be followed. That's why I was saying that these parents think that it is good to do things like that. You thought that unconditional support? Huh.

So, lets focus here (since you don't know what the hell you are talking about) on why these people think like that? Are they really after money? Being in the age of near 50 and 60 they are thinking about money and not their children? I don't agree with that. What you say that 'parents are like human they could be wrong too' this is even not a statement. This is dumb. What are you trying to achieve here?

Anyway, so my questions are that without making any junk talk let me know:

What is the problem?
What is the root cause of the problem?
How to solve the problem?

[/QUOTE]

:)
Would you point out the difference between
this ===>"I think it is not because they are brought up like that."

and this ===> " They are made to think like that. "

Anyways, what you did is that you involved a part of Islam to justify your stance, exactly the same way parents do in our Society, anyways let me tell you something more here, even though this happened before the Prophethood, Hazrat Khadija's parents were not involved, and we know that the Parents of our Prophet SAW were not there either. The point I want to make here is this "that the parents involvement was not there" in the example you have chosen!

Here we are discussing about how parents force their children to follow the unIslamic traditions of their fore-fathers in order to please their biradri members.

Why should we follow UnIslamic traditions when we claim to be Muslims? Tell me WHY? Why should an UnIslamic tradition be followed when Islam has clearly identified the do's and don'ts on the subject? WHY should we follow man made laws when Allah has a law in place already? Tell me WHY?

You want to know why I blame the parents? Because the parents claim that they are Muslims! But when it comes to following Islam, the parents do not accept Islam as a complete way of life! The parents still want to follow the unIslamic customs and traditions of their non Muslim fore-fathers, which is "not allowed" by Islam!

But what happens in our society (thanks to people like yourself) is that the Un-Islamic customs and traditions, of the Non-Muslim fore fathers of our parents, are enforced on us under the umbrella of Islam!

People use Islamic teachings such as "obey your parents" "do not say uff to your parents", but at the same time when Islam teaches us to obey Allah and do not commit Shirk, this part of Islam is ignored!

The parents completely forget that our goal is to obey and please Allah and obeying Allah is only possible by adhering to Islamic teachings and principles, parents completely ignore that our goal is not to commit shirk, if our parents believe that since Islamic teachings about marriage are not in line or compatible with their family traditions then they can still follow their family traditions and ignore Islamic teachings on the subject and that it is allowed for them to do so, then isn't this Shirk?

Most parents in our society are of the belief that their family traditions regarding marriage are better than Islamic teachings!

The root cause of the problem lies in the fact that most parents do not know the true meaning of "La Ilaha IllAllah"!

The solution to the problem is to stop giving unconditional support to parents and stop giving them the benefit of the doubt! The parents are able to carry out what they want only because they know that everyone is going to support them!

Parents know that if their daughter wants to marry someone they don't want her to marry, they know that all their other children would support them not their daughter! Because in our society, the general assumption is that parents can never make a wrong decision for their children intentionally! But this is not true, you cannot find this anywhere in Islam, infact Islam stresses on us being just, even if it is against ourselves, our parents or relatives, we are only allowed to do what is right, no matter what the scenario may be!

But majority of the people in our society would support the parents regardless of them being right or wrong. Many believe that they will be rewarded for supporting their parents unconditionally!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
Ok let's take a look at this one more time. You know how our Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) got married the first time. Let's compare it. There was a age difference. She was divorce and more over she was rich. This marriage happened at the same time when Arabs use to barry their daughters alive.

Can this kind of marriage happen in our society now? Not possible.
[/QUOTE]

did you know that about two months ago, a guy (i think in his early 30's or late 20's) married a 75 years old woman. this happened in karachi,pakistan and it was in the newspapers as well as on internet :)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Munnay,

I've lived straight 14 years of my life in Pakistan and
[/QUOTE]

so are you not straight anymore, or in Pakistani anymore, or both? :)

:rotfl::rotfl: :biggthumb :rotfl::rotfl:

lol :rotfl:

pir saahib, aisi baatein nahi kartey:nono: :rotfl:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
Ok let's take a look at this one more time. You know how our Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) got married the first time. Let's compare it. There was a age difference. She was divorce and more over she was rich. This marriage happened at the same time when Arabs use to barry their daughters alive.

Can this kind of marriage happen in our society now? Not possible.

Why? Is this because of parents and biradri. You think like that I don't. There is difference in opinion.

I think it is because they are brought up like that. They are made to think like that. They actually have followed same things like that. That's why they follow it like tradition. Right? So if you blame the biradri and the parents, is it going to solve the problem? No! You blame their parents and biradri. It is not going to work either because same thing they were brought up like that. It is like you are pointing towards the leaf and not going out to the roots.

You may disagree with what they say and it may seem insane to you. This is your view. Their view is that it is like a tradition, which needs to be followed. That's why I was saying that these parents think that it is good to do things like that. You thought that unconditional support? Huh.

So, lets focus here (since you don't know what the hell you are talking about) on why these people think like that? Are they really after money? Being in the age of near 50 and 60 they are thinking about money and not their children? I don't agree with that. What you say that 'parents are like human they could be wrong too' this is even not a statement. This is dumb. What are you trying to achieve here?

Anyway, so my questions are that without making any junk talk let me know:

What is the problem?
What is the root cause of the problem?
How to solve the problem?

What ever you have done in your post is nothing but, try to proof me wrong by lying about the unconditional support (which I denied several times), changing my post and proving your baseless point and more over giving pharases 'people like me'. You don't know me, neither my name and being so judemental. I can understand how low your IQ level could be. This is not a contest, it is problem that needs to be solved and all I have done so far is behave life a loyal opposition and argue. Sadly, you haven't done your part. Learn some manners and respect your opponent.
[/QUOTE]

Well, our Prophet’s (P.B.U.H) parents were not alive at that time but, according to my knowledge he did ask his uncle about it.

We should not follow these rules by any means. The question could be why are they present in our society? Well, this is because "the majority of people in Pakistan are Muslims by birth and faith, there is a strong influence of Hindu culture on the present Pakistani culture. The shadows of this influence are quite visible on the marriage ceremonies and festivals like “Basant”.

Dowry Systems and heavy expenditures on the marriage of girls is done, which is inherited from Hindu society because in Hindu society there is no share of women in the inheritance of their parents. Although women are given a share in the inheritance of their parents in Pakistani society, there are huge expenditures on the marriages of daughters."

This might have started during our time with Hindus in the sub-continent. This has been practiced for so many years that people think that it is part of their life and a tradition.

So, you and me agree at the problem that these practices are untraditional. To solve them you have to change the system, educate people about many things and draw a line. Draw a line between right and wrong in our culture. You want to blame the parents for that, go ahead but I don’t think that is going to solve the problem.

The biggest problem we face is the “unconditional support to parents”, parents are the one’s who want to follow the UnIslamic traditions of their fore-father’s and when their children object to it, parents involve other members of the family and their biradri, and guess what happens then? Every one supports the parents! They choose Hadith and verses from the Quran that support them and ignore most of what Islam teaches only to justify what the parents want!

Anyways, nothing is going to work if the majority does not want a change, if the majority of the people believe that “parents are innocent and that they don’t do anything intentionally” then no matter how educated we get, nothing’s going to change!

Unless and until everyone is willing to accept that “parents can make mistakes too” don’t expect education to do any good.

Parents know what is going to elevate their status in the society and that is all they want, in order for them to fulfil their vain desires they are willing to ruin future generations! You think a parent who knows all the Quranic verses and Hadith that teach you to be obedient to parents is innocent? Parents know that the majority of the people in the society would support them regardless, and they know the weaknesses of their children, and you say that they don’t do anything “intentionally”? This is an assumption, false assumption! And how can you judge someone’s intentions? Through out your responses you have been saying that the parent’s intentions are good, please do let me know on what grounds are you saying this?

How can you judge someone else’s parents intention? Just because he/she is a parent, he can’t have a bad intention? Where did you get this from?

I am only saying that treat everyone as human beings, parents are not an exception, don’t give them the benefit of the doubt! Parents can be wrong just like their children can be wrong…

And with reference to the editing in your previous post which I missed.. I am not trying to prove that you are lying, when you mention that “there is nothing that parents do which is intended to harm their children”, I strongly disagree with this, and by referring to different posts of yours I have only tried to point out at this. And when I mention “people like you”, let me be very honest with you, whatever you have said is what most of the people who support parents unconditionally say! and I have come across many people and this is why I am aware of what is it that is used to justify what parents do in our society…! I apologize for being harsh.