"fun" in arrange marriages..

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101

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *

Parents DO care about what the members of their biradri say!! That's the only think parents are concerned about, and when you argue with your parents, all your brothers, sisters, cousins, aunties, uncles put pressure on you to give in to the wishes of your parents, since it is a sin to displease your parents!!!

If a boy or a girl knows what is going to make him happy, nobody believes in him or her, everyone says that you are a child you can't make the right decision and your parents know you better, they are the one's who know what is best for you so don't hurt them in this age...
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Well, our society is not the only one. This happens in every society.

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You know what happens in our society, you are only try to support the parents unconditionally, go ahead, its people like yourself who are the root cause of this problem that we face in our society... people who are not willing to change, people who are not willing to accept the truth, people who are unable to assimilate that "even parents are human beings and can make mistakes", people who shall always give unconditional support to parents regardless of them being right or wrong!
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Different for god sake get a life. First you blame parents, then you call our society nearly the worst one that ever existed and now you are starting to blame me. That I am the root cause of this problem. How old are you? I have supported the girl/boy position too. I say if they want to argue they should. People will not like it. Why do you care? Your parents will go against you, well you have grown enough to take care of your self. Why don't you go ahead and do it. It is your life. You are just backing down and blaming parents because you are scared.

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Money is the solution to all problems.... if this is what parents believe in, what else do you expect from them?
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Blah blah....I think we should reconsider this money issue again. In Pakistan, when the average person makes $450 annually. And more than half of the people can't even earn $1. Money does make a difference. When hunger stuck you to your belly it does make a difference. At that time all those right left, love hate go into dustbin.

102

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shikra: *
now before we go into more discussions, a few questions:

zig zag, are you from pakistan or are you american? from your posts, i suppose you are from pakistan and are you still there? if not, how long did you live there? have you seen any examples that justify your explanations?

cuz i don't think you've lived there long enough and seen these problems that different just mentioned above. i've seen them.
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In Pakistan, where I lived my neighbours had a very big family. Their biradri etc where very concerned about marriage. Their oldest boy actually married a girl across the street. When he and the girl told the parents about this. The parents were in big shock and lastly they supported them. The girl is living in our neighbour's house. They have two kids. Moreover, the boy is Sunni and the girl is Shia.

103

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
Well, our society is not the only one. This happens in every society.

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What's that supposed to mean???? If everyone is doing something it means that it is the right thing to do???

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *

Different for god sake get a life. First you blame parents, then you call our society nearly the worst one that ever existed and now you are starting to blame me. That I am the root cause of this problem. How old are you? I have supported the girl/boy position too. I say if they want to argue they should. People will not like it. Why do you care? Your parents will go against you, well you have grown enough to take care of your self. Why don't you go ahead and do it. It is your life. You are just backing down and blaming parents because you are scared.

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Shouldn't I be asking you your age? You are the one who said that its not the parents fault, nor is it the girl's fault, nor is it the society's fault, you blamed everything on poverty and illeteracy, then you came up with blaming the girl for not arguing, at one point you say that you should be dying for your parents, no matter what they do to you, then you also say that one should fight and argue with your parents, you say that in our society money drives everything and that everyone likes to be called nobles in the eyes of the biradri then you also say that the biradri people will like you today and hate you tomorrow....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *

Blah blah....I think we should reconsider this money issue again. In Pakistan, when the average person makes $450 annually. And more than half of the people can't even earn $1. Money does make a difference. When hunger stuck you to your belly it does make a difference. At that time all those right left, love hate go into dustbin.
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First you decide whom are we talking about... the people who earn $450 or people who spend $5000 on Mehndi alone?

104

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *

In Pakistan, where I lived my neighbours had a very big family. Their biradri etc where very concerned about marriage. Their oldest boy actually married a girl across the street. When he and the girl told the parents about this. The parents were in big shock and lastly they supported them. The girl is living in our neighbour's house. They have two kids. Moreover, the boy is Sunni and the girl is Shia.
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Now this** one case** is the basis of your opinions????

Good Luck... and by the way I said that its people like yourself who are the root cause of this problem that we face in our society... people who are not willing to change, people who are not willing to accept the truth, people who are unable to assimilate that "even parents are human beings and can make mistakes", people who shall always give unconditional support to parents regardless of them being right or wrong!

I wonder where did you get this from??

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
and now you are starting to blame me. That I am the root cause of this problem.
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105

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *

What's that supposed to mean???? If everyone is doing something it means that it is the right thing to do???
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I never said it is right or wrong. I said it happens every where.

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Shouldn't I be asking you your age?
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Ya..sorry about that. I shouldn't have ask you about your age. The question should have been. ** How dumb are you?**

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You are the one who said that its not the parents fault, nor is it the girl's fault, nor is it the society's fault,
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Yes I did say that.

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you blamed everything on poverty and illeteracy, then you came up with blaming the girl for not arguing,
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Now where did I say that. I said that the economic and education needs to be improved. About blaming the girl not arguing? She is not fighting for her right. This is not blame.

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at one point you say that you should be dying for your parents, no matter what they do to you, then you also say that one should fight and argue with your parents
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What is so wrong in arguing with your parents? How does it changes anyone's views? Yes, you should love your parents but, when you think that it is necessary you should argue.

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you say that in our society money drives everything and that everyone likes to be called nobles in the eyes of the biradri then you also say that the biradri people will like you today and hate you tomorrow....
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I said biradri people are like people you see everyday. Every one likes to be known as noble. Don't you Different?

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Good Luck... and by the way I said that its people like yourself who are the root cause of this problem that we face in our society... people who are not willing to change, people who are not willing to accept the truth, people who are unable to assimilate that "even parents are human beings and can make mistakes", people who shall always give unconditional support to parents regardless of them being right or wrong!
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Just keep accusing me that's what you all got Different. If you have time just go and see a therepist. I have answered all this in my previous posts.

106

calm down you two. stop fighting by saying direct comments such as "how dumb are you" and etc. etc. etc. don't take it too seriously.....the person who posted it probably never checked the replies:)

107

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *

I never said it is right or wrong. I said it happens every where.

Ya..sorry about that. I shouldn't have ask you about your age. The question should have been. ** How dumb are you?**

Yes I did say that.

Now where did I say that. I said that the economic and education needs to be improved. About blaming the girl not arguing? She is not fighting for her right. This is not blame.

What is so wrong in arguing with your parents? How does it changes anyone's views? Yes, you should love your parents but, when you think that it is necessary you should argue.

I said biradri people are like people you see everyday. Every one likes to be known as noble. Don't you Different?

Just keep accusing me that's what you all got Different. If you have time just go and see a therepist. I have answered all this in my previous posts.
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I want to know what do you mean when you say that it happens everywhere! What is justified by this statement of yours?

You said in clear words that what is the use of all the education that the girl has when she is not using it and she ends up cooking and getting pregnant.... aren't you blaming the girl?

You know what are the belief's of the majority of the people in our society, or do you want me to list out all the opinions that are made on this very thread? If a boy/girl argues with his/her parents on this issue, people like you shall always interfere and support the parents unconditionally, and you know that this makes a big difference!

In order for someone to be known as a noble in front of the biradri people he should trade his own daughter? WoW! How low can one get? The parents sacrificing their daughter's honor and dignity in order to be known as noble people in the eyes of their biradri!! And you preach that one should die for such parents?

108

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *

I want to know what do you mean when you say that it happens everywhere! What is justified by this statement of yours?
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I meant that you can not single out our society alone. This happens everywhere in the world.

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You said in clear words that what is the use of all the education that the girl has when she is not using it and she ends up cooking and getting pregnant.... aren't you blaming the girl?
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This is not a blame, if she thinks that the person she is going to marry with is not the one. She should argue, if she does not due to reasons you mentioned like being abandon etc. is not going to help her any way. So, if she get supress here she is going to get supress every place and in the end she will lose her own identity.

[QUOTE]

You know what are the belief's of the majority of the people in our society, or do you want me to list out all the opinions that are made on this very thread? If a boy/girl argues with his/her parents on this issue, people like you shall always interfere and support the parents unconditionally, and you know that this makes a big difference!
[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by people like me? When did I interfere in any bussiness? It makes no difference, the people you talking about and giving so much attention too are not the one who are getting married, it is you. So, you should make a decision and stand by it.

[QUOTE]

In order for someone to be known as a noble in front of the biradri people he should trade his own daughter? WoW! How low can one get? The parents sacrificing their daughter's honor and dignity in order to be known as noble people in the eyes of their biradri!! And you preach that one should die for such parents?
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In the eyes of the parents, according to their best knowledge, they think it is better for their kids. It could be wrong for the kids but, kids are the only one who know that. If the kids disagree they should argue. What is the problem on arguing with your parents? Tell them that's not the way they wanna get married. Can you do that?

109

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *

I meant that you can not single out our society alone. This happens everywhere in the world.
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So What If it happens everywhere in the world (I'm sure it doesn't) but even if you claim that it does happen everywhere in the world, what has that got to do with it happening in our society?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
This is not a blame, if she thinks that the person she is going to marry with is not the one. She should argue, if she does not due to reasons you mentioned like being abandon etc. is not going to help her any way. So, if she get supress here she is going to get supress every place and in the end she will lose her own identity.
[/QUOTE]

If its not a blame then what is it?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
What do you mean by people like me? When did I interfere in any bussiness? It makes no difference, the people you talking about and giving so much attention too are not the one who are getting married, it is you. So, you should make a decision and stand by it.
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People like you means people who think like you and who share your belief's! It does make a difference when people like you are in majority, people like you support the parents unconditionally and parents in our society take unjust advantage of this unconditional support!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
In the eyes of the parents, according to their best knowledge, they think it is better for their kids. It could be wrong for the kids but, kids are the only one who know that. If the kids disagree they should argue. What is the problem on arguing with your parents? Tell them that's not the way they wanna get married. Can you do that?
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Even though you admit that the kids know better about what's good for them and that the parents don't, but still you want to support the flawed opinion of parents when an issue of this sort comes in front of you! Be honest to yourself, you have only been trying to justify what the parents do, by saying that parents think what is best, and that they don't intend to harm the kids...

I don't want to keep running in circles with you, since you are not focused, you keep throwing in variables, its a nice tactic to get away with the issue at hand, we were focusing on parents of educated children and you kept bringing in the uneducated, we were focusing on people who had enough money to go through all the rusoomat of a traditional Pakistani wedding and you kept on bringing people who hardly earn $450 annually....I told you what is it that you are facing, its a disease of the heart that most human beings have, and that is the inability to assimilate the fact that the practices of their fore-father's is wrong, and you have proved it by your weak arguments, Good Luck!

110

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
In the eyes of the parents, according to their best knowledge, they think it is better for their kids.
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nope. that is not the case always. sometime (actually a lot of times in typical families) the parents know what they are doing for their daughter is wrong, but they still do it for various reasons. i.e. to please the society, sometimes they get money for that, sometimes for their daughter's "better future" which actually they are ruining and etc. etc. etc. this is something that's being done on purpose.

111

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shikra: *

nope. that is not the case always. sometime (actually a lot of times in typical families) the parents know what they are doing for their daughter is wrong, but they still do it for various reasons. i.e. to please the society, sometimes they get money for that, sometimes for their daughter's "better future" which actually they are ruining and etc. etc. etc. this is something that's being done on purpose.
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zig zag will come up by saying that all that the parents do is un-intentional, although at the same time accepting that most of the women in our society can not live independently, that is the reason why they have to sacrifice. Their parents have to make these choices because they want their girl to be married in a family that is full with money.

In our society money takes over the choice of girl.

In our society things like pride etc etc comes. They want their girl to go in a good family.

All this is unintentional in zig zag's eyes!!

112

What are you guys discussing?

Parents don't care about their children, Yawn!

113

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
What are you guys discussing?

Parents don't care about their children, Yawn!
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Ofcourse parents care about their children, its just that they care less about their children when they have to choose in between life long happiness of their child or temporary elevation of their status in the eyes of their biradri members!

114

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *

Ofcourse parents care about their children, its just that they care less about their children when they have to choose in between life long happiness of their child or temporary elevation of their status in the eyes of their biradri members!
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Don't mix apple with oranges.

Why would parents certainly stop caring less in that part of their children, where the children need them most?

..and why would parents put biradi first than their own children? For money? Status? Respect? LAMO. Undoubtly, need of education ponders.

Which Biradi do you belong to?

115

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Don't mix apple with oranges.

Why would parents certainly stop caring less in that part of their children, where the children need them most?

..and why would parents put biradi first than their own children? For money? Status? Respect? LAMO. Undoubtly, need of education ponders.

Which Biradi do you belong to?
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it's not only one biradri. a lot of people do that, some do it openly while some don't. you really have to live in pakistan and see the typical families in order to know more about it. but it is true, they sacrifise their daughters for money and to please other people. they don't care if the girl is being married to a 50 year old man or he's divorced or whatever. they just look at the money and how happy people will react after they find out where these parents married their daughter. they want people to praise about them.

116

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shikra: *

it's not only one biradri. a lot of people do that, some do it openly while some don't. you really have to live in pakistan and see the typical families in order to know more about it. but it is true, they sacrifise their daughters for money and to please other people. they don't care if the girl is being married to a 50 year old man or he's divorced or whatever. they just look at the money and how happy people will react after they find out where these parents married their daughter. they want people to praise about them.
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Munnay,

I've lived straight 14 years of my life in Pakistan and have never seen this kind of Biradiri, which you have been discussing for God Knows how long, not in educated families, at least. It could happen in villages of Pakistan, where educated people are hardly. And blaming village people wouldn't be justify since the Govt. doesn't invest in Education Sector.

Point proved. Case closed!

117

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Don't mix apple with oranges.

Why would parents certainly stop caring less in that part of their children, where the children need them most?

..and why would parents put biradi first than their own children? For money? Status? Respect? LAMO. Undoubtly, need of education ponders.

Which Biradi do you belong to?
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BEcause parents are human beings too... simple!

And human beings make mistakes... or are you saying that parents cannot make mistakes?

118

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Munnay,

I've lived straight 14 years of my life in Pakistan and have never seen this kind of Biradiri, which you have been discussing for God Knows how long, not in educated families, at least. It could happen in villages of Pakistan, where educated people are hardly. And blaming village people wouldn't be justify since the Govt. doesn't invest in Education Sector.

Point proved. Case closed!
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Cities not villages, educated people not uneducated people, how many reported cases do you want me to list?

You are only proving how majority of the people in our society give unconditional support to parents regardless of them being right or wrong!

Why is it difficult for you to accept that parents can be wrong too?

119

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Munnay,

I've lived straight 14 years of my life in Pakistan and have never seen this kind of Biradiri, which you have been discussing for God Knows how long, not in educated families, at least. It could happen in villages of Pakistan, where educated people are hardly. And blaming village people wouldn't be justify since the Govt. doesn't invest in Education Sector.

Point proved. Case closed!
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lol......uncle.......i lived exactly 14 years in pakistan too but i recently moved here to USA. you probably lived their in old days thus haven't seen many problems. i have seen them where the girl is 17 and the guy is 40 and divorced. so many more cases.

120

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shikra: *

lol......uncle.......i lived exactly 14 years in pakistan too but i recently moved here to USA. you probably lived their in old days thus haven't seen many problems. i have seen them where the girl is 17 and the guy is 40 and divorced. so many more cases.
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Whether Pakistani Tiger lived in Pakistan for 14 years or 28 years and during his stay there if he didn't come across any case, it doesn't change the reality does it?