Different you are again blaming parents. Don't blame parents, it is not like they are selling their daughters.
The thing is Economic stability of a society. Our society is poor, that's why they want their children not to suffer. That's why they make these kinds of hard choices.
When the economic problem will be solved. This Arrange marriage problem will be solved too.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
Hey, I have no problem with marrying a guy or a girl you love. Our society is very close. They live together most of time. Like if the girl goes with her husband, her husband lives with his parents. Right? In our society things like pride etc etc comes. They want their girl to go in a good family. A family that they know.
I know in arrange marriages most of the time girl has to sacrifice. It is just because she can not take care of her self. She is not independent enough. Other wise, if she was don't you think her parents would allow her to do anything she wants?
What you are saying sounds good and definatly it is easy to say but, very hard to follow.
[/QUOTE]
There are girl's who are independent enough to support their whole family, but when it comes to marriage, the false pride of the parents in the society is what matters the most, the girl is forced to do what her parents want her to do, even if everyone knows that her parents are least bothered about their daughter's happiness and are only concerned about what people in their "biradri" would say, but the girl can't do much about it, since there is no one who would support her, everyone would simply ignore her situation and will ask her to be patient and comfort her by saying that Allah wanted this to happen this way and InshaAllah everything will be all right, and that she should not hurt the feelings of her parents since it is a big sin to do so, your parents have done so much for you and this is the only thing they are asking from you so have some pity on them and do as they say after all they know what's best for you, I can give you 101 justifications and excuses that parents and their unjust supporters in the society would use to convince the girl, and you say that parents will allow their daughter to do anything she wants if she were independant??
What you are saying and justifying is not going to last forever, its already too late now, it won't be long when you will yourself be blaming the society and the parents for the mess everyone is in right now.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
Different you are again blaming parents. Don't blame parents, it is not like they are selling their daughters.
The thing is Economic stability of a society. Our society is poor, that's why they want their children not to suffer. That's why they make these kinds of hard choices.
When the economic problem will be solved. This Arrange marriage problem will be solved too.
[/QUOTE]
I am not the one who brought the money issue up, its you, and you have spoken the truth.
Parents believe that money is the solution to all sorts of problems and you have mentioned this too. Parents make these choices so that they can avoid embarassment in their "biradri" and everyone knows this very well. All this economic stability is just another excuse...
I can't imagine doing this under any circumstances what so ever, honor and dignity is more important than money. How can one ruin his/her daughter's life in order to save his/her face in their biradri.
AJNABI LARKI<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
R u still with him or have u abbandoned him for better looks and MONEY ofcourse. ;)
With an Avtar like that I think arranged marrige is ur only chance.
i am glad Different has answered Zigzag on my behalf. i don't have much to say but one thing again, as differnet said before, if an arranged marriage fails, it is blamed on taqdeer but on the other hand when a love marriage fails, it's guy's and girl's fault because they were too eager to make decisions and marry each other. money is NOT the solution to EVERYTHING. i think a family, daugher, her wishes, her happiness, and her life is more important than saving your nose before biradri.
I still am not convinced. I believe there is no fault of parents, girl or a society. I know money can not bring everything, but yes it can buy a house, light it up. People spend their whole life just to see that happen.
How can you blame parents Different? They are the same parents who feed us, take care of us etc. Why would they ever think bad for their kids?
Ok leave arrange marriage on other side. What next? Love marriage. Allmost all of the marriages in Western countries are love. How many of they acomplished?
Marriage can only be successful if there is a mutual respect between the two persons. It is not because of love, arrange or money. Love comes and goes so does the money but, respect is something that stayes for ever.
^ well as we said before, we are talking about pakistani culture, not american culture. american people do a lot more things that we do in our culture. i am sure you are aware of them and i don't have to name them. but as far as the money go, if you love the person, money is not the issue because they understand each other.
if you marry with someone who you don't like, just for sake of your parents, and the marriage doesn't go very well, three people's life is destroyed: wife, husband, and the other guy who she used to love.
on the other hand if you love the person you marry, and lets suppose the marriage fails, only two people's life is destroye: the wife and the husband.
so would you rather destroy three people's life to save your parent's respect and pride in biraadri or would you let those two marry and wish them good luck and happiness in their life?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *
Parents believe that money is the solution to all sorts of problems and you have mentioned this too. Parents make these choices so that they can avoid embarassment in their "biradri" and everyone knows this very well. All this economic stability is just another excuse...
[/QUOTE]
I know money can not solve every problem but, yes it can solve some problems. Economic stability is not an excuse.
Look the Biradri that you are talking about is very complex. You'll find some witty people and some not. You probablly have seen in your family there'll be some of your grand parents who never had any education. They get respect and also their opinions because they are older than us. More smart than us....( I seriously have no idea about that).
What your mind is speaking Different is a new revolution that Pakistan and Indian societies are expreiencing these days. It's a new thing that people are bringing questions like should we follow them or should they follow us? Or we should go our own way.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shikra: *
^ well as we said before, we are talking about pakistani culture, not american culture. american people do a lot more things that we do in our culture. i am sure you are aware of them and i don't have to name them. but as far as the money go, if you love the person, money is not the issue because they understand each other.
if you marry with someone who you don't like, just for sake of your parents, and the marriage doesn't go very well, three people's life is destroyed: wife, husband, and the other guy who she used to love.
on the other hand if you love the person you marry, and lets suppose the marriage fails, only two people's life is destroye: the wife and the husband.
so would you rather destroy three people's life to save your parent's respect and pride in biraadri or would you let those two marry and wish them good luck and happiness in their life?
[/QUOTE]
I am not changing views, I am just stating that if you take away the arrange marriage thing from our society it will be just like western society and you know how marriage life is like in western society. I am not changing views of the topic. Are we done with that?
With love marriage you are saying that if it did not work out only man and woman will suffer. Well, what about the kids? Kids are the only one who suffer a lot.
As I have mentioned in my above post that a marriage can only work out if the two people have mutual respect for one other. Money yes not a factor but, it is really a very good thing to have.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
I still am not convinced. I believe there is no fault of parents, girl or a society. I know money can not bring everything, but yes it can buy a house, light it up. People spend their whole life just to see that happen.
How can you blame parents Different? They are the same parents who feed us, take care of us etc. Why would they ever think bad for their kids?
Ok leave arrange marriage on other side. What next? Love marriage. Allmost all of the marriages in Western countries are love. How many of they acomplished?
Marriage can only be successful if there is a mutual respect between the two persons. It is not because of love, arrange or money. Love comes and goes so does the money but, respect is something that stayes for ever.
[/QUOTE]
Whose fault is it then? It is the parents who do things only to please other members of their family and to keep the family tradition up and running....
I do blame the parents because in our society everyone supports the parents and parents take unjust advantage of this, in our society a marriage is successful if parents want it to be successful most of the time, its not the blessings of our parents that make the marriage successful its the will of our parents to make the marriage successful or ruin it. Parents are more concerned about their reputation in their biradri rather than being concerned about the happiness of their child. This is not going to last long, and you seem to realize this already.
How can you have mutual respect when you are married because of money? when the base on which you are getting married is money, what makes you think that there is going to be any respect between the couple?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
I am not changing views, I am just stating that if you take away the arrange marriage thing from our society it will be just like western society and you know how marriage life is like in western society. I am not changing views of the topic. Are we done with that?
With love marriage you are saying that if it did not work out only man and woman will suffer. Well, what about the kids? Kids are the only one who suffer a lot.
As I have mentioned in my above post that a marriage can only work out if the two people have mutual respect for one other. Money yes not a factor but, it is really a very good thing to have.
[/QUOTE]
The problem is arranged marriages that are based on money, family customs and traditions.... if parents arrange a marriage based on the qualities their child would want in his/her spouse, no one would oppose arranged marriages, but in our Society the marriages are based on un-Islamic traditions and customs and this is not acceptable, and it cannot continue for long.
If parents follow proper Islamic teachings, their children will not get into this Love marriage thing, but its because parents reject eligible proposals & delay marriages waiting for very good proposals which may elevate their status in the eyes of their biradri members, and this is what leads to situations when girls and guys get into the "Love marriage" situations.
Parents deal with marriage as a business transaction and if they don't change then the parents are responsible for the consequences. Parents in our Society choose parts of the Quran and Sunnah to justify their point of view and they totally ignore other parts which go against their point of view. People of other religions tried to do this and we know what happened to them and if our parents continue to this, then we too might suffer like those who suffered in the past.
Where are the parents doing what when their children are having a relationship with someone? What is the difference in between talking to your fiance and talking to your BF?
Parents allow you to talk to your fiance even though engagement is never a guarantee that the two of you are going to get married!!
Its Double Standards plain and simple, if the parents want things to go right, they go right, if the parents do not want things to go right then things will never go right!
ITs the parents fault!!!!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *
The problem is arranged marriages that are based on money, family customs and traditions.... if parents arrange a marriage based on the qualities their child would want in his/her spouse, no one would oppose arranged marriages, but in our Society the marriages are based on un-Islamic traditions and customs and this is not acceptable, and it cannot continue for long.
If parents follow proper Islamic teachings, their children will not get into this Love marriage thing, but its because parents reject eligible proposals & delay marriages waiting for very good proposals which may elevate their status in the eyes of their biradri members, and this is what leads to situations when girls and guys get into the "Love marriage" situations.
Parents deal with marriage as a business transaction and if they don't change then the parents are responsible for the consequences. Parents in our Society choose parts of the Quran and Sunnah to justify their point of view and they totally ignore other parts which go against their point of view. People of other religions tried to do this and we know what happened to them and if our parents continue to this, then we too might suffer like those who suffered in the past.
Where are the parents doing what when their children are having a relationship with someone? What is the difference in between talking to your fiance and talking to your BF?
Parents allow you to talk to your fiance even though engagement is never a guarantee that the two of you are going to get married!!
Its Double Standards plain and simple, if the parents want things to go right, they go right, if the parents do not want things to go right then things will never go right!
ITs the parents fault!!!!
[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY!!! i don't see what's hard for zig zag to understand from our simple statements.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
With love marriage you are saying that if it did not work out only man and woman will suffer. Well, what about the kids? Kids are the only one who suffer a lot.
.
[/QUOTE]
ok. and do kinds not suffer when an arranged marriage fails? if you think children suffering from love marriage will increase the quantity of people suffereing, then you are forgetting to add one person on the arranged marriage side, the guy that girl used to love. The Result: The amount of people suffering because of that forced marriage is still greater than the people suffering from the love marriage.:)
Parents never think bad for their kids. If they pretend to be a control freak. I believe they should be.
Why you think that parents would do wrong with their kids? Do you think when their kids weep they celebrate. Their heart hurts too.
Our society lacks economic stability and education. Most of the people over there are illitrate. Their minds are not so open like yours.
Just because they are poor and uneducated is not a good reason to blame them. It is not like they do it intensionally.
The problem is to introduce economic stability and education not blaming one other like you are doing all this time. This is not going to solve the problem. You are not intelligent enough. Just don't aim too high.
About kids, well they get hurt when parents divorce and don't bank on kids they say all kinds of crap!!
Parents never think bad for their kids. If they pretend to be a control freak. I believe they should be.
Why you think that parents would do wrong with their kids? Do you think when their kids weep they celebrate. Their heart hurts too.
Our society lacks economic stability and education. Most of the people over there are illitrate. Their minds are not so open like yours.
Just because they are poor and uneducated is not a good reason to blame them. It is not like they do it intensionally.
The problem is to introduce economic stability and education not blaming one other like you are doing all this time. This is not going to solve the problem. You are not intelligent enough. Just don't aim too high.
About kids, well they get hurt when parents divorce and don't bank on kids they say all kinds of crap!!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
Why you think that parents would do wrong with their kids? Do you think when their kids weep they celebrate. Their heart hurts too.
Our society lacks economic stability and education. Most of the people over there are illitrate. Their minds are not so open like yours.
[/QUOTE]
you didn't have to say the same thing twice, unless you are trying to increase your posts.......lol
parents sacrifice their kids to be nobel in their society or biraadri. after they marry them, and someting goes wrong, they just tell them to keep quiet as it would be a big problem and it would be an insult to them if people find out that marriage didn't go too well. i guess you haven't lived in pakistan for a long time? but what you have said "their minds are not so open like yours", i guess you do agree with me that i am right and you/they are wrong. it's not about whether their minds are open or not, this is just COMMON SENSE! you care about your family or other people? even animals care for their family first. humans were supposed to be superior than them.
oh..i just clicked it two times.
Anyway, as I mentioned in my post, most of the people there are illitrate and poor. I don't think your mind is open other wise you would have understood the problem. If you have some education or money does not make you superior. You have a quality that should be invested in the society.
Everyone likes to be known as noble in their family and society. Western, Eastern any place. About sacrifice or whatever you mentioned my answer is same as above (Poor no Education...They don't do it intentionally).
Whatever your parents do, do not hate them. Love them, they are the one you should die for.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
oh..i just clicked it two times.
Anyway, as I mentioned in my post, most of the people there are illitrate and poor. I don't think your mind is open other wise you would have understood the problem. If you have some education or money does not make you superior. You have a quality that should be invested in the society.
Everyone likes to be known as noble in their family and society. Western, Eastern any place. About sacrifice or whatever you mentioned my answer is same as above (Poor no Education...They don't do it intentionally).
Whatever your parents do, do not hate them. Love them, they are the one you should die for.
[/QUOTE]
If you claim to be a Muslim and also accept that most people in Pakistan claim to be a Muslim, then please try to prove everything that you think is right on the basis of Islam.
Prove that all that the parents do is right according to the teachings of ISlam
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zig~Zag: *
Parents never think bad for their kids. If they pretend to be a control freak. I believe they should be.
Why you think that parents would do wrong with their kids? Do you think when their kids weep they celebrate. Their heart hurts too.
Our society lacks economic stability and education. Most of the people over there are illitrate. Their minds are not so open like yours.
Just because they are poor and uneducated is not a good reason to blame them. It is not like they do it intensionally.
The problem is to introduce economic stability and education not blaming one other like you are doing all this time. This is not going to solve the problem. You are not intelligent enough. Just don't aim too high.
About kids, well they get hurt when parents divorce and don't bank on kids they say all kinds of crap!!
[/QUOTE]
They don't do it intentionally??? What is it that they don't do intentionally?
No one's blaming them because they are poor or uneducated, I blame them because they are parents and they take unjust advantage of the unconditional support they enjoy in this Society.
Everyone in our Society gives the benefit of the doubt to parents, without even trying to find out the reality, parents are always considered innocent, who are angels in matters concerning their children's well being...
Parents want to elevate their status in their biradri and you accept this, but you still say that they do this unintentionally??
Its not your fault, its a disease of the heart and it is not new, people always find it very hard to assimilate the fact that their parents do wrong. Its mentioned very clearly in the Quran, anyways I'll wait for your response and then I'll show you verses from the Quran so that you cannot claim that you did not know what the truth was...