Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
I am not saying that the U.S government made the film. But trying to incite violence and hatred against a group or a religion should be a crime in the U.S. For the people that use freedom of expression as an excuse, freedom of expression is always qualified.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
As a liberal myself ( just as you are) I am for more de-criminalization than criminalization. Whether it comes to drugs and other non violent crimes. I wish those scum bags get sued in civil court. While I detest what they stand for, we don't need more criminalization.
To me the more disappointing trend is when one judges another for not protesting in public and groups them with those who support such despicable acts. The herd mentality that everyone ( or every Muslim) MUST act the same way is a bit disturbing.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Your stereotyping of Jews is blatantly pathetic.
First of all you can totally ridicule Jews in America. It is not a crime to do so and nor will you go to jail. You might get sanctioned by the press or lose your job, but thats it.
Jews don’t control America and not all Jews have a uniform opinion of American foreign policy in the middle east. Some of the biggest critics of Israel and American Foreign Policy are American Jews such as Seymour Hersh, George Soros, Norman Finkelstein.
Countries directly effected by World War II such as those countries who were occupied by the Germans (France, Poland, Italy, Austria, Holland, etc.), is denying the holocaust a crime because its part of the Anti-Nazi Laws passed in 1947.
Countries that were not occupied in World War II, England, USA, Canada, Australia, etc., you can deny the holocaust, ridicule Jews to your heart’s content and let your inner bigot emerge without any criminal offense. 
As for the Wars, how exactly is the War in Afghanistan protecting Israel? How is America’s confrontation with North Korea protecting Israel? And why haven’t America launched a war on Iran yet?
Pakistan and Muslim countries are regressing. Back in the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s, they were much liberal, tolerant places where minorities and non-muslims enjoyed rights. Now they are extremely hostile to anyone who is a non-sunni muslim. I just need to look at the daily terrorist attacks, attacks on non-muslims, as ample proof of the hostile nature of these extremists.
As for US, US plans to be foreign oil independent by 2020, and till then the world will sell Oil to USA because USA is a big consumer of Oil and the Dollar is the world reserve currency and there is a guaranteed ROI on American Bonds. And besides the biggest exporters of Oil to USA are Canada and Mexico.
American prosperity is build upon the fact that it welcomes anyone and everyone who is willing to do hardwork and realize their potential and gives freedom and democracy. I as a Muslim have more freedoms to practice Islam in the West than I have in Pakistan or any other muslim country. That is why for centuries immigrants from all over the world have moved to the USA and till today the best and brightest from around the world still move there.
Oil only came into play in USA in the 1910 when Henry Ford built his Ford Model T Car. And before that Americans relied on Coal to power their railroads and steam to power their ships. And by 1910, America was already a great power and millions of people were immigrating there.
Please tell me how many people are lined up from around the world to move to Pakistan? 
Go educate yourself.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
I stand by my statement. Ignoring such an act means accepting.
Did you see anything in my post about any administration? Can you come out of your hole?
P.S. Posts after posts you come out irrational and aggressive and when given an answer you ‘apologize’ and ‘politely’ walk away. Please do it again.
We should have a dedicated forum for you and Huma arguments by the way so you don’t have to follow her everywhere. 
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
I was stating the Muslims are treated better than African Americans.
By using one disadvantaged group and comparing it with another disadvantaged group, you are telling me that Muslims are not doing too bad in the U.S.
Do you find the same media bias between these 2 groups? Do you see that the Blacks are hated and feared more than the muslims? Do you see Blacks getting pulled off planes? Do you Blacks going through the humiliation at the airports? Do you see Blacks being spyed on? Do you see the State Department and the Defence Department paying people to post on internet sites that Black people use? Do you see Blacks being entrapped by the agencies? Do you see Blacks being killed overseas unlawfully by drones even if they are U.S citizens? Do you see Blacks being sent to other countries and being tortured? Do you see Black peoples liberties being upsurped? How many blacks and how many muslims do you see on the mainstream tv? Whose faith is attacked the most? Whose faith is demonised the most? I could carry on. After answering all these questions tell me who is better off.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
As a liberal myself ( just as you are) I am for more de-criminalization than criminalization. Whether it comes to drugs and other non violent crimes. I wish those scum bags get sued in civil court. While I detest what they stand for, we don't need more criminalization.
To me the more disappointing trend is when one judges another for not protesting in public and groups them with those who support such despicable acts. The herd mentality that everyone ( or every Muslim) MUST act the same way is a bit disturbing.
I agree with you.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Saying that Jews control U.S is stereotyping? Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Madeleine Albright, Alan Greenspan, Henry Kissinger are just a few of the most prominant jews. Then you have about 20% of the members of Congree who are Jews. Jews only make up about 1% of the U.S population yet control the country.
War in Iraq was to eliminate a threat to Israel and so is the planned war against Iran.
You can go to the whole of the Middle East from UAE to Qatar, and to Malayasia and you can see that the countries are progressing rather than moving backwards. You will note that income in some of these countries is not that different from the U.S. Pakistan has slipped which is mainly due to U.S sponsored wars in 1979 and 2001, lasting about 20 years.
The world does not sell oil to the U.S but gives it away for free to the U.S in return for a piece of paper, which has no value because it is not backed by gold. All this QUANTITATIVE EASING is simply printing paper, to keep the U.S economy afloat.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
By using one disadvantaged group and comparing it with another disadvantaged group, you are telling me that Muslims are not doing too bad in the U.S.
Do you find the same media bias between these 2 groups? Do you see that the Blacks are hated and feared more than the muslims? Do you see Blacks getting pulled off planes? Do you Blacks going through the humiliation at the airports? Do you see Blacks being spyed on? Do you see the State Department and the Defence Department paying people to post on internet sites that Black people use? Do you see Blacks being entrapped by the agencies? Do you see Blacks being killed overseas unlawfully by drones even if they are U.S citizens? Do you see Blacks being sent to other countries and being tortured? Do you see Black peoples liberties being upsurped? How many blacks and how many muslims do you see on the mainstream tv? Whose faith is attacked the most? Whose faith is demonised the most? I could carry on. After answering all these questions tell me who is better off.
I concede all your points. But you probably would agree that 80 to 90% being stopped and searched is hard to even imagine.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
I stand by my statement. Ignoring such an act means accepting.
Did you see anything in my post about any administration? Can you come out of your hole?
P.S. Posts after posts you come out irrational and aggressive and when given an answer you 'apologize' and 'politely' walk away. Please do it again. :D We should have a dedicated forum for you and Huma arguments by the way so you don't have to follow her everywhere. ;)
Dear diwana - when one is wrong one acknowledges it and apologizes. I am sure that concept is foreign to you.
Nothing is black and white dear.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Wrong again. Donald Rumsfeld is a German-American Lutheran.
As for Wolfowitz, and others, yes they are Jewish. Are you saying that no Jew should be in a position of power in USA?
And besides, they got there due to hardwork and not by bribing someone as its done in Pakistan.
20% of Congress is Jewish? Where are you getting your ridicilous facts from?
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41647.pdf
Here, go to Page 7, #of Jews in American Congress is 7%. American Jewish population is around 6 million which is 2% of the entire American population.
I can list all the people of English descent who have been President or all the people of German descent who have been President and then come up with a ridiculous conspiracy theory that Germans control USA.
You are no longer debating with mullahs in a mosque. This kind of ridiculous mumbo jumbo should suffice for the mullahs but not for me.
Jeez…
War in Iraq was a neo-con project designed to re-shape the middle east in a jeffersonian democracy.
I was totally against this war and still to this day totally against that stupid war. And how exactly has Israel been more safer with this war?
I can point to Tunisia, Yemen, Sudan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain, Pakistan, Iran, etc. as countries who have regressed on human rights and protecting minorities.
The income in some of these countries such as UAE is not that different because they hire western workers to build up their country. and why would anyone from the west want to move to work there if they are not being paid the same or higher amount.
Its simple economics.
If it gave away for free, then gas prices would be quite lower in USA, will it not? Last time I checked the Gas Prices are quite high in USA. Can you please explain that? Please go beyond the logic of most mullahs with loud speaker nonsense.
While Nixon decided to remove USA from the Gold Standard, US currency is still backed by a secure ROI on American bonds. And that is why despite all the efforts of Iran and Venezuela, OPEC still uses the Dollar as the Reserve Currency and there is no other contender in sight to replace it, Euro tried and failed.
So despite your hue and cry, the world will continue to use the dollar for the foreseeable future.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
LOL you folks make me laugh at times. What Pakistan is or is not...lets leave that aside for one minute. Do you agree or disagree that U.S is full of hypocrisy and if not then the reasons why?
As far as Pakistan is concerned are you saying that we should call the invading armies and rulers of the past terrorist villains? And because we don't call them terrorists we are hypocrites? Don't make any sense to me......how about you elaborate on this point a bit further?
Pakistan makes people who desecrate other religions into their heros. So they don't have any right to cry fowl at this film which desecrates their religion. Quite simple, nothing to elaborate!
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Dear Southie;
Don’t buy your reasoning. I do see the sarcasm though.
You missed the whole point in my post and let me clarify for your better understanding:
I said you come out aggressive and when given answer you walk away apologizing.
First: Why come out condescending, sarcastic and aggressive to begin with when you have no idea what you are talking about? Seriously!
Second: Why keep doing it again and again? 
I am not going to give you example for that just not to hurt your feelings.
Now:
Please answer me where did you see I said anything about any administration?
P.S. I do notice you avoided your chasing Huma all over the places. Agree that it was off topic.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Southie dear?
Kahaan Gaye? 
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
OK. I say this with all sincerity and no sarcasm - I get worried when diwana agrees with me. This is normal. All is well.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Where did you see in any of my post disagreeing with you for no reason? Keep diggging.
and old question remains…
Where did you see me talking about any administration? I feel like owning you now.
P.S. I am so glad you turned your insincerety and sarcasm button off this time. Sure!
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
So you admit that the Jews are overreprsented in the Congress and in the Administration. You admit that they are overpresented by 3.5 times. Also a lot of non jews members are also reliant on the support of the jews and their money. So their real influence is a lot greater.
You say that they got there because of their hard work and not bribery. Well I disagree. Could the U.S not find someone better than say Paul Wolfowitz? There is bribery in the U.S, but it is in the form of donations for elections.
The Iraq war was engineered. First Iraq was supported against Iran and when it had served its purpose it was destroyed at the behest of Israel. Now Israel is putting pressure on the U.S to do the same to Iran, because the Israelis feel insecure. Don’t take my word for it just read the western newspapers.
The countries that you say have regressed even if it is true, are countries where the U.S has tried to interfere. Can you tell me how much GDP of the countries that you mentioned grew compared to the U.S in the last 5 years?
Say I have something very useful or sought after like Iphone 5, and I say to you…I will accept payment for it by getting a piece of paper signed by you and noone else. Not only that if anyone else wants to buy the same product they also need to give me a paper signed by you. Is that not giving it away for free? Now they are printing so much of this paper to just keep the economy ticking over.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Mr.Ashad5 - you said 20% and Mr.Mercenary proved it was only 7%. It is you who should be admitting your mistake instead of obfuscating the issue.
I am not clear what the point you are trying to make about the US economy and dollar is but since I am very connected with it I will tell you this - US economy, especially industry, has been very mishandled for decades now. A large group of Americans have also got very used to easy money, easy hand outs, easy TV, easy food and easy everything. We Americans have to and are beginning to pay for it. That is the economy. A lot of dollars are being printed - it will lead to inflation of some sort.
BUT
countries like Japan and China who hold a chunk of US bonds and dollar assets have no choice but to continue doing so. Especially China because no other market can replace the demand for Chinese goods other than the US. Well, India can but won't. That means if China stops exporting to the US, China has to shutter its export oriented manufacturing and send back millions of workers into poverty. (If you study Chinese history, you will agree that when that happens China explodes into revolution). So China continues to export to the US and ofcouse US prints more dollars to pay China. Now what does China do with these dollars? Buy stuff - such as African mines, South American Railroads and yes - American bonds. You will notice that none of these can a) happen without US dollars and b) can be transhipped physically to China. So the mutual dependency continues.
Last year China tried to cut this cycle by stopping to buy US bonds - they returned to the market within 3 months because there was nothing else worth buying anywhere else in the world. Euros were worse and nobody else would accept China's own manipulated local currency.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Mr.Ashad5 - you said 20% and Mr.Mercenary proved it was only 7%. It is you who should be admitting your mistake instead of obfuscating the issue.
I am not clear what the point you are trying to make about the US economy and dollar is but since I am very connected with it I will tell you this - US economy, especially industry, has been very mishandled for decades now. A large group of Americans have also got very used to easy money, easy hand outs, easy TV, easy food and easy everything. We Americans have to and are beginning to pay for it. That is the economy. A lot of dollars are being printed - it will lead to inflation of some sort.
BUT
countries like Japan and China who hold a chunk of US bonds and dollar assets have no choice but to continue doing so. Especially China because no other market can replace the demand for Chinese goods other than the US. Well, India can but won't. That means if China stops exporting to the US, China has to shutter its export oriented manufacturing and send back millions of workers into poverty. (If you study Chinese history, you will agree that when that happens China explodes into revolution). So China continues to export to the US and ofcouse US prints more dollars to pay China. Now what does China do with these dollars? Buy stuff - such as African mines, South American Railroads and yes - American bonds. You will notice that none of these can a) happen without US dollars and b) can be transhipped physically to China. So the mutual dependency continues.
Last year China tried to cut this cycle by stopping to buy US bonds - they returned to the market within 3 months because there was nothing else worth buying anywhere else in the world. Euros were worse and nobody else would accept China's own manipulated local currency.
Mercenary did not prove anything. He directed me to site and said that the figure of 7% was claimed there. For the sake of argument I took that lower figure and said that even then Jews are over-presented in the Congress and Administration.
Yes I agree with you that the good ole days for the U.S will finish sooner or later, at some stage the easy money will dry up and the U.S will have to give something to the world in order to get, as opposed to getting things for free now. It knows that period is coming and has been trying to prepare for that period.
I understand your point about the dollar keeping the wheels of the global economy, but my point is not that, but that the U.S is getting most of the things from the rest of the world for free. Although it does provide some service for the rest of the items that it obtains from the world.
The U.S has the largest reserves of oil in the world but is not using them as it wants to use and exhaust the free oil in the middle east first.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Another example of freedom of speech.
BBC NEWS | Europe | French court bans Christ advert
France’s Catholic Church has won a court injunction to ban a clothing advertisement based on Leonardo da Vinci’s Christ’s Last Supper.
The display was ruled “a gratuitous and aggressive act of intrusion on people’s innermost beliefs”, by a judge.
The church objected to the female version of the fresco, which includes a female Christ, used by clothing designers Marithe et Francois Girbaud.
The authorities in the Italian city of Milan banned the poster last month.
The French judge in the case ordered that all posters on display should be taken down within three days.
The association which represented the church was also awarded costs.
The designers are said to be planning an appeal, saying they did not intend to offend anyone with the campaign.
‘Trivialising’
**Italy’s advertising watchdog said the ad’s use of Christian symbols including a dove and a chalice recalled the foundations of the faith and would offend the sensitivity of part of the population.
The Catholic Church used a similar argument against the advert, which also shows two of the apostles embracing a bare-chested man in jeans.
“When you trivialise the founding acts of a religion, when you touch on sacred things, you create an unbearable moral violence which is a danger to our children,” said lawyer Thierry Massis.
**
“Tomorrow, Christ on the cross will be selling socks.”
But lawyers for the fashion house said banning the image would amount to censorship.
“The work is a photograph based on a painting, not on the Bible,” said lawyer Bernard Cahen.
“There is nothing in it that is offensive to the Catholic religion. It is a way of showing the place of women in society today, which is a reflection of our changing values.”
The campaign is said to have been inspired by Dan Brown’s bestseller The Da Vinci Code which refers to the 15th-Century fresco.
Re: Freedom of speech & Western hypocrisy.
Guys
You have freedom of speech as long as you have power, control and authority to exercise it.
Morality in power politics and specially on global scale is a rare commodity, if not an illusion.