Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
It is not meant for a laugh it is meant for knocking some sense in mentality of self pity of brethren. 
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
ok, if you say so! I have nothing against people praying in streets or wearing abaya or walking nude or walking scatly clad. You have a problem people drinking, effing' and all those things that do not directly affect your life...** these people who are against** you wearing abaya or** praying in streets are also against Islam** in many ways just as you are against secularism for different reasons.** Two sides of the same coin really**..
Not really religious freedom then.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
He is right! Conservatives while supporting secularism do oppose change/influence. I did mention that to BBQ.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
hmmm so Secularism is not all that perfect as some people make it to be. hehe
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
But Saudi and UAE aren't secular states, I think that was the main point of this thread.
We all know that Islam allows full religious liberties to minorities.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
If you don't like it, leave it. France isn't a Muslim country. Islam therefore forbids to settle in a non-Muslim country. If you are living in their country, than you have to respect their decisions and laws. And if you want a mosque and your way of life, leave France and settle in any Muslim country.
By the way, how easy it is to build a church in Saudi Arabia or UAE?
Brilliant so the standard for Secular Europe should be repressive regimes like Saudi Arabia.
Actually no Islam does not forbid settling in non-Muslim countries. The movement of Sahaba to Christian Ethiopia during the Prophets time is such an example.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
they ban burkha now they ban praying in streets so they belive in freedom and do what you like except if you muslim. Yes france is a extremly secualr country but when they proclaim liberty and freedom they don't apply this rule to muslim community who are clearly being targetted.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
France believes in freedom **from **religion, not freedom **of **religion.They don't want any outward displays of worship.
Stop talking about offending each other. Praying in the street is a safety hazard. It's a sad fact but a great majority of European Muslims are descendant of labor class immigrants who often lived in segregated communities and praying in the street reeks of this. As people have mentioned, praying in the street is not even done in Pakistan.
And please stop comparing the religious freedoms allowed in the West to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, it's not even close. The West is much more tolerant and it's exactly because of the secularists that Muslims have the freedoms that they have. If the secularists in the West did not exist, we probably wouldn't even have been allowed to immigrate. And just to note again, the people who are offended by Muslims are probably not the secularists but the conservative Christians.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
France believes in freedom **from **religion, not freedom **of **religion.They don't want any outward displays of worship.
Stop talking about offending each other. Praying in the street is a safety hazard. It's a sad fact but a great majority of European Muslims are descendant of labor class immigrants who often lived in segregated communities and praying in the street reeks of this. As people have mentioned, praying in the street is not even done in Pakistan.
And please stop comparing the religious freedoms allowed in the West to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, it's not even close. The West is much more tolerant and it's exactly because of the secularists that Muslims have the freedoms that they have. If the secularists in the West did not exist, we probably wouldn't even have been allowed to immigrate. And just to note again, the people who are offended by Muslims are probably not the secularists but the conservative Christians.
are these the same secularists regimes you praise who invaded the muslim world for past 100 years and continue to do so every 10 years ,colonized the countries made them backward and dependent and also from goodness of their hearts installed puppet regimes?
If it wasn't for them and their interference maybe we wouldn't need to even come to the west in the first place to get education and opportunities.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
are these the same secularists regimes you praise who invaded the muslim world for past 100 years and continue to do so every 10 years ,colonized the countries made them backward and dependent and also from goodness of their hearts installed puppet regimes?
If it wasn't for them and their interference maybe we wouldn't need to even come to the west in the first place to get education and opportunities.
The were able to invade us because they freed themselves from political religious institutions and imposed their will on a susceptible culture, just as any human civilization (including Islamic ones) have done. Muslims conquered the Middle East. The Mughals invaded India. The West surpassed us, plain and simple. Whereas we regressed. And they surpassed us because religion didn't dominate their lives as it seems to do for a lot of people on these boards and around the world.
I don't like the fact that we had to come to the West. But the West made progress because there were able to see past insignificant religious quarrels. We are still stuck in the past. So yes, I do praise secularism because I see it as a way to equal and surpass the West, as Asia did for thousands of years minus the past few hundred.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
To the people posting about why you would want to pray on the streets... I live in the US and when we don't have access to a masjid, we pray in the parking lots. At school, we'll pray in the hallways. I've never been asked what I'm doing or why I have to pray in a public setting. I remember I was once driving in a shopping plaza looking for parking and I saw a brother looking at the sun, then he pulled out a prayer rug and prayed in the grassy area. There are non-Muslims present. But it's a free country and praying isn't offensive- you're not praying out loud, screaming, or saying negative things. It's amazing how a practice that is quiet and non-offensive is viewed negatively yet people can let actual offenses go by.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
Brilliant so the standard for Secular Europe should be repressive regimes like Saudi Arabia.
Actually no Islam does not forbid settling in non-Muslim countries. The movement of Sahaba to Christian Ethiopia during the Prophets time is such an example.
the time has changed ,countries have their rules you have to follow it, otherwise leave that country if you are really interested in praying on roads ,chauraha, presidents lawn which country allows it? not even pakistani govt will allow but jabardasti and gundagardi makes it possible . roads and highways are not for praying, is it necessary to stop the traffic? have they banned to pray in parks ? other open areas ? remember how much religious freedom non muslims get in muslim countries.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
they ban burkha now they ban praying in streets so they belive in freedom and do what you like except if you muslim. Yes france is a extremly secualr country but when they proclaim liberty and freedom they don't apply this rule to muslim community who are clearly being targetted.
i think you must have been discriminated too much in last 25 years , jehadis are not much in demand in paris ? ihope so? mujboori me rehana padta hai?
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
It’s very interesting.
I feel sorry for French Muslims in a way. In Cambridge, for years, muslims have been praying on street outside the mosque and no one ever raised an eyebrow, but now they are raising money to extend the mosque.
If the French Government is so concerned with Muslim influence on France by praying on a street then they should’ve at least provided the proper mosque buildings before declaring the ban. This is where they went wrong.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
France believes in freedom **from **religion, not freedom **of **religion.They don't want any outward displays of worship.
Stop talking about offending each other. Praying in the street is a safety hazard. It's a sad fact but a great majority of European Muslims are descendant of labor class immigrants who often lived in segregated communities and praying in the street reeks of this. As people have mentioned, praying in the street is not even done in Pakistan.
And please stop comparing the religious freedoms allowed in the West to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, it's not even close. The West is much more tolerant and it's exactly because of the secularists that Muslims have the freedoms that they have. If the secularists in the West did not exist, we probably wouldn't even have been allowed to immigrate. And just to note again, the people who are offended by Muslims are probably not the secularists but the conservative Christians.
I wouldn't trust Icesoul about anything regarding to Islam. If got too close to a mosque he would burn up. People do pray on the street in Islamabad, Abbotabad, Peshawar, Malakand, Swabi and Chitral. I visited all these locations this past 5 weeks in Pakistan and most mosques are too small and over flowing.
I see so for security reasons its okay to ban the religious actions of a minority.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
France is giving official sanction to ghetto politics. These things will come back to bite them.
I find exhibitionist parades (typically conducted by gays) offensive; I find kids en masse wearing inappropriate clothing that exhibit their privates offensive. I find people who seem to bathe only once a week (hm, funny a majority of them are french) come to meetings wreaking of either bo or some synthetioc perfume that lingers for hours in the room and elevators, offensive.
So praying in public shopuld not be an issue. However if the muslims are doing it in an 'in your face' and confrontational manner I'd like to make two points:
- I doubt if that can be called prayer
- they deserve this then
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
I wouldn't trust Icesoul about anything regarding to Islam. If got too close to a mosque he would burn up. People do pray on the street in Islamabad, Abbotabad, Peshawar, Malakand, Swabi and Chitral. I visited all these locations this past 5 weeks in Pakistan and most mosques are too small and over flowing.
I see so for security reasons its okay to ban the religious actions of a minority.
Fair enough. But I also came back from Lahore last week and I can't recall seeing anyone praying outside on a major street.
And I didn't say security (as in Muslim terrorists) I said safety. I'm assuming that they also pray on busy streets where they could impede traffic (human or otherwise).
The solution should be to build a mosque, a modest one would do. It doesn't have to be grand. And if people are really upset then they should leave. France is secular, but the majority of it's citizens are not Muslims and given the current political climate, especially in Europe, I wouldn't expect much if I were a Muslim living there. That's not a fair thing to say but there are principles and then there is reality.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
Fair enough. But I also came back from Lahore last week and I can't recall seeing anyone praying outside on a major street.
And I didn't say security (as in Muslim terrorists) I said safety. I'm assuming that they also pray on busy streets where they could impede traffic (human or otherwise).
The solution should be to build a mosque, a modest one would do. It doesn't have to be grand. And if people are really upset then they should leave. France is secular, but the majority of it's citizens are not Muslims and given the current political climate, especially in Europe, I wouldn't expect much if I were a Muslim living there. That's not a fair thing to say but there are principles and then there is reality.
Nobody prays on the street in Faisal Mosque or the much much larger mosques. But the local community mosque they pretty much do. The one that is made for a small community but has more people show up.
Since its reality. Nobody should complain about what Saudi or Iran do regarding minorities.
You are smart enough to get the hypocrisy I am implying.
Re: France bans Muslim prayers on streets in Paris
The issue id plain and simple:
Worshiping God/Allah is harmless act.
As long as the act is not causing hindrance to others, and traffic is diverted appropriately then why something needs to be banned just because some idiots find it offensive?
On the other hand, in Pakistan, this happens almost on daily basis, one after other group tries to show people power and uses streets which re already small and no alternative for emergency traffic is planned. (The thread is not about Pakistan though)
In essence:
If it is 'proven' to be physically harmful for anyone - No.
If it is unnecessarily 'offensive' to someone - Then this reason is itself offensive to religious people!!!