This is not SWAT and if you want to turn this into the liberal/secular version of the same, then it is your prerogative…
Again, still awaiting for a specific example of where I condoned the actions of terrorists and those calling for dismemberment of Pakistan???
And will you apply the same rules for MQM terrorist supporters?
Re: Forum Rules on support for Terrorism
SP, please read this stickie to learn about the official policy of GS related to such issues.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/297679-important-please-read.html
The policy is good but i am worried about its implications.
I fear that some moderators will use it as tool for banning and giving infractions to people who disagree with them on political issues.
Plus the rule quoted below:
In light of recent events in Pakistan, Gupshup will not tolerate any viewpoints that sympathize with groups or individuals officially or unofficially allied with any group that is a threat to Pakistan’s integrity or carries out or condones terrorist attacks within Pakistan. All such posts will be deleted and those who make them will be banned from the site
The rule is very vague with no boundaries defined. For instance , 20 percent people in this forum who voted think that mqm is a terrorist party and we have some forum members who openly favor mqm …would this rule apply on them too?
I hope I don’t get another infraction for asking this question
Thanks
As stated by Bitter_reality…the rule is very vague and open to abuse by the idealogically driven mods…
This is particularly true when no specific example of the violation of the rules are provided and your post is just as inadequate…
People thinking that a party is a terrorist party, and that party claiming that they are terrorists are 2 different things. When the party starts claiming that they will bomb places, kill people, slit their throats if they dont follow the party rules, VS someone group/party who may do that but dont officially use that claim as their badge of honor, are not the same.
Tell me a single popular political party of Pakistan that did not use deadly force to enforce their mandates. JI did that from the platform of thier student wing in 80’s. PPP did in Sindh, especially in Larkana Area. Jiyay Sindh did that in Mehran University, a cab driver was killed just because he put Pakistani flag onhis taxi on 14th Aug. Ayub Khan Supporters (your lovely Pathan Truck Drivers) killed many in Karachi when Ayub won against Fatima Jinnah
But none of these parties openly claimed to be a terrorists. You need to be little unbiased and keep your eyes open when you compare claimed terrorists and unofficial terrorism.
and btw, GS is not an MQM website. Mods could have their political affiliations/support .. but they dont run PA forum based on that. They are suppose to follow GS policies and they do, not their personal agenda.
Re: Forum Rules on support for Terrorism
Comparing what other parties have done with isolated incidents of violence with what MQM has done consistently over the last 30 years is the height of disingenousness, mockery of impartiality and a profound insult to countless (thousands if not hundreds of thousands) of it's victims ...
This maybe not be an MQM site, but being an important member of the liberal/secular pantheon and the anti-islam nexus it is given all possible support and patronage on this board for the obvious reasons...
Re: Forum Rules on support for Terrorism
My post was not in support of MQM. I dont have any political affiliation or sympathies to MQM, but comparing acts of MQM with the terrorist acts of publically beheading our soldiers and making vidoes of them is also an extreme and insult to countless of the terrorisim victims.
My post was not in support of MQM. I dont have any political affiliation or sympathies to MQM, but comparing acts of MQM with the terrorist acts of publically beheading our soldiers and making vidoes of them is also an extreme and insult to countless of the terrorisim victims.
It may not be on videos...though Altaf may have a secret load stashed away somewhere for his viewing pleasure...MQM has kidnapped and tortured and killed Pakistani soldiers, including a Major in the past...
And it is no insult, since both actions are equally dispicable...
You and those running this board may not be supporters of MQM, but you've compromised for the sake of expediency and convenience (for the greater good of secularism) much as Musharraf had with the same MQM, whose leader's head Musharraf had desired to blow had he given a chance and if it were up to him, just a few years back...
It may not be on videos...though Altaf may have a secret load stashed away somewhere for his viewing pleasure...MQM has kidnapped and tortured and killed Pakistani soldiers, including a Major in the past...
Till the day, MQM officially claims to be a terrorist party, till that day we can only recognize the party as a Political Party. Their acts can be questionable, still the party is supported and loved by 75 % of Karachi population. I am sure the day Talibans get that kind of support, they will be looked differently by the people of Pakistan.
My post was not in support of MQM. I dont have any political affiliation or sympathies to MQM, but comparing acts of MQM with the terrorist acts of publically beheading our soldiers and making vidoes of them is also an extreme and insult to countless of the terrorisim victims.
well Sir,
Did u forget public burning of live lawyers in karachi by MQM?
Public drilling of holes in skulls by mqm?
So, in the end it all comes to personal perceptions
You fear beheading and I fear getting burnt alive...........which is more cruel?
I rest my case
Re: Forum Rules on support for Terrorism
The ban is on organizations that challenge the state and its integrity. MQM with all its violent past is a part of the democratic political system and is a part of the current government. Whenever that is true of any terrorist group currently banned, they should be taken off the list too. Should the MQM stop being a part of the political system, and attempt to challenge the state's integrity now or in the future, support for them ought to be banned as well.
well Sir,
Did u forget public burning of live lawyers in karachi by MQM?
Public drilling of holes in skulls by mqm?
So, in the end it all comes to personal perceptions
You fear beheading and I fear getting burnt alive...........which is more cruel?
I rest my case
I am not supporting any acts of MQM, but my point is same as Ravage. In spite of their ugly behavior, they are part of our political system. They are not challenging the structure of our State (please spare me with Jinnahpur conspiracy at this time).
Its ironic that we are turning the whole PA into Taliban vs MQM fight though both groups are the creation of the same General (Zia) and were born at the same time and now both are haunting us back.
The ban is on organizations that challenge the state and its integrity. MQM with all its violent past is a part of the democratic political system and is a part of the current government. Whenever that is true of any terrorist group currently banned, they should be taken off the list too. Should the MQM stop being a part of the political system, and attempt to challenge the state's integrity now or in the future, support for them ought to be banned as well.
well said and that is exactly what our policy says. Taliban has challenged the state and has declared war on part of Pakistan. I see them no different from how I perceived India during the 1965 war i.e. enemies of Pakistan.
If Taliban were to become part of the democratic process and win elections than yes they would have a right to enforce their point of view because the people of Pakistan would have voted for them.
I am not supporting any acts of MQM, but my point is same as Ravage. In spite of their ugly behavior, they are part of our political system. They are not challenging the structure of our State (please spare me with Jinnahpur conspiracy at this time).
Its ironic that we are turning the whole PA into Taliban vs MQM fight though both groups are the creation of the same General (Zia) and were born at the same time and now both are haunting us back.
No it's not ironic, rather tragic, that you are not even privy to, or is it selective understanding of, the basic history of the region...taliban were not created by Zia...Gulbadeen Hikmakyar, Mullah Haqqani, Mullah Sayaf, Masood and etc. were part of the Mujaheedeem for which you can give credit to Zia, but they were on the opposite side of Taliban, when the latter rose up out of chaos and anarchy of afghanistan in the early nineties and were backed fully by the secular/liberal light that is Benazir, where her Interior Minister, Naseerullah Babar claimed them to be his "babies"...
And who other then BLA have challenged the integrity of Pakistan...for all of Taliban's faults, they've never called for secession from Pakistan, in fact they've co-opted the pushtunistan movement...
Furthermore, as if MQM doesn't challenge the writ of the gov't and it's "structure" in Karachi...try getting anything done in Karachi from running of local shop, medium size business, a large factory, getting a telelphone line installed, getting your degree released from KU and etc. etc. without paying protection money or being remotely involved and associated with MQM...
Try criticizing MQM openly in Karachi...if this isn't challenging the writ of Pakistani gov't where rules and laws of Pakistan are ignored, trampled upon and discarded and only the shariat-e-altaf is enforced, then tell what is...
This protection and legitimizing of MQM on this board is the height of hypocrisy...
...MQM has kidnapped and tortured and killed Pakistani soldiers, including a Major in the past...
that was the time when Pakistani army were used to support the political views of Govt and army was used to crush a political party. .
What army is doing now, is trying to save the country, not the govt. What army is doing now, is what it is suppose to do, and for that, we .. People of Pakistan, should stand behind our armed forces and stop supporting the people who are beheading our soldiers.
that was the time when Pakistani army were used to support the political views of Govt and army was used to crush a political party.
What army is doing now, is trying to save the country, not the govt. What army is doing now, is what it is suppose to do, and for that, we .. People of Pakistan, should stand behind our armed forces and stop supporting the people who are beheading our soldiers.
That is very revealing...in your attempt to understand (sounding like an apologist) the reason behind MQM's murderous reign, you've done exactly what you hold me and others for violation...
Well said, I completely agree. Currently Pakistan army is fighting Taliban/TNSM who has declared whole Pakistani system as kafir, challenged govts writ, defend throat-slitting and they want to dismember Pakistan. Until they change their ways, stance they will remain terrorists and will not enjoy any support here.
^ tx Captain.
Furthermore, as if MQM doesn't challenge the writ of the gov't and it's "structure" in Karachi...try getting anything done in Karachi from running of local shop, medium size business, a large factory, getting a telelphone line installed, getting your degree released from KU and etc. etc. without paying protection money or being remotely involved and associated with MQM...
Try criticizing MQM openly in Karachi...if this isn't challenging the writ of Pakistani gov't where rules and laws of Pakistan are ignored, trampled upon and discarded and only the shariat-e-altaf is enforced, then tell what is...
This protection and legitimizing of MQM on this board is the height of hypocrisy...
Without going into the origins of Taleban discussion, I will only say this: the day Pakistani state does seek to establish whatever writ in Karachi that is being violated, and the armed forces are fought, is the day that the parallels you are drawing will be complete, and that is when support for such an organization should be banned. Such a situation has existed in the past, and in that time, I believe the appropriate policy would have been to ban support for MQM.
As it currently stands I dont see how it is possible for a Pakistani forum to ban support for people who are a part of the elected government institutions and cabinet of Pakistan. It just doesnt make sense.
Re: Forum Rules on support for Terrorism
I am not apologizing dude, I was there, in Karachi. I know of families whose sons and brothers were kidnapped by intelligence and were never found. Even then I am not justifying MQM act, although they had a reason to be against majors and generals of that era ..
What excuse Talibans have, They come from a diff country into our country and trying to impose their rules. We have all the reasons to kick their behind.
Re: Forum Rules on support for Terrorism
Fair enough, as long as the rules are not abused...I was warned twice by Shamraz Khan for somehow "condoning" the actions of taliban, yet nothing was produced to validate this claim...