Why are we discussing the flat track bullies argument. This was first raised against Indian batsmen, and was mainly used to criticize them as their insecurity kept them making claims of 'having the best batting lineup in the world." The moment a cricket team lands in India, the first question their media ask them is: "So who do you think is the best batsman in the world (keeping fingers crossed, please please say Tendulker, we need some reassurance here).
Pakistan never had more than one all season star batsmen anyway, so it's useless to tell us that they are flat track bullies, when we never gloat over their batting prowess anyway. We have no insecurities to compensate for by claiming to have the best "individuals." What matters is how our team plays, at home and abroad. And we might have lost this series, our away record has been consistent and well enough for people to not label our team as 'incapable of winning outside the subcontinent." (wink, nudge).
Let's give it to India, they have the best batsmen in the world, or maybe Australia do. Unlike INdians, we are not in the business of making gods out of our batsmen. We just concentrate on winning, and do it much better than Indians, whether it's against INdians or rest of the world outside subcontinent.
Take your flat track argument (whoever presents it) and shove it you know where :D
Who are flat track bullies, the ones who won series home and abroad or the ones who took 20 odd years to win a series abroad, despite having “the best batting lineup in the world”.
Funny how the Indian team supposedly filled with star batsmen from number one thru 6, who can play on FAST AND BOUNCY wickets, and aren’t scared of TALL WHITE BOWLERS, haven’t managed to win a test series in what 25 years?
Oh wait, they did beat West Indies 1-0 in a 4 match series, my bad.
Bhaiya,
For winning test matches one need to take 20 wickets and we Indians have too many pappu bowlers who cant do this outside India. Our batsman did deliver most of the time. If you see many of our top batsmen average around 50 outside but our bowling sucks… So if you say your team isbetter I agree but this doesnt counter the argument that most of your batsmen are flat track bullies.
I hope you get the arguement… I am ready to accept that we have chutia bowlers…you also accept that you have lot of flat track bullies. Most of your overseas win are attributed to Wasim, Waqar and Shoib. Don’t over-estimate your bastmen. Be thankful that you always had good bolwing lineup.
Pakistan never had more than one all season star batsmen anyway, so it's useless to tell us that they are flat track bullies, when we never gloat over their batting prowess anyway. We have no insecurities to compensate for by claiming to have the best "individuals." What matters is how our team plays, at home and abroad. And we might have lost this series, our away record has been consistent and well enough for people to not label our team as 'incapable of winning outside the subcontinent." (wink, nudge).
Let's give it to India, they have the best batsmen in the world, or maybe Australia do. Unlike INdians, we are not in the business of making gods out of our batsmen. We just concentrate on winning, and do it much better than Indians, whether it's against INdians or rest of the world outside subcontinent.
Take your flat track argument (whoever presents it) and shove it you know where :D
Every thing that you said above is probably true. But it doesnt counter the flat track bully argument. stick to topic. geez..who gave you OBE.
:D
Basically Fair & balance is saying that whoever performs against Australia is a master class player (I agree) and who ever has an average of 33 against Australia in Australia is a flat track bully. Even though that player has a career average of 52 and an average of approx. 49 outside Pakistan.
fair_&_balance, your argument on flat track bullies is when you compare their inngs against Australia, well as compared to Sachin and Lara; Yousuf and Younis have not played that many matches against Australia. Let them, than we will compare it with Sachin and Lara. If India won or performed well against Australia is because they had a good team, which Pakistan lacked during that tour. If the current Pakistani team meets Australia in Australia, I am sure those "flat-track bullies" will prove you wrong.
Well...I am actually looking at both AUS and SA who had best fast bowlers during last decade apart from Pak. Average of 49 outside Pak is be very inflated considering India, SL and Bangladesh are also outside Pak but have those flat batting beauties.
What ia m saying is that if you average more than 50 in sub continent and average around 30 in AUS and SA then there is definitly something wrong. I can undestand a small dip but this is huge.
…and that makes him a flat track bully. Jeez, you still surprise me with your attempt on labeling people as flat track bully. If Sachin, Lara and Dravid established big inngs is because they had support. You cannot just stand and hit 100 runs…there is support needed from your fellow batsmen, which India enjoyed for a long time. Lara, Sachin and Dravid always had the players around them who helped them achieved the milestones. Pakistan, batting wise had been in a rebuilding stage for a while and that is why their batting was inconsistent until now, but still they were able to produce excellent batsmen like Saeed, Inzamam, Yousuf and now Younis. If you give Inzamam, Yousuf and Younis 5 Tests in Australia, they will prove you worng.
Hey by the way, 'fair and balance," even though you seemed to lament the 'national trend' (Indian) in your past posts, you do follow the same pattern: The need to prove that your batsmen are the best (which **is **your real argument by extension, when you call our batsmen flat track bullies), and you prove it with 'averages."
I think it's intellectually dishonest to deny that having an average of 30 means Yousuf of Inzi never came to team's rescue in Australian and South AFrican tours. Regardless of their averages, our players, as a combination (often known as a 'team') have been contributing enough for us to win tests and ODI series abroad, and if you ask me, I will take that 10 out of 10 times over your "best batting lineup" that has high individual averages and rarely resuces the team from a defeat (Dravid being an exception).
Tendulkar has been playing for records for years (even Manjerakor has pointed this out now) and same is true for majority of your batsmen other than Dravid.
I will not accept your flat track bulley argument because it has an EXPLICIT inference that our primary batsmen lack in technique and quality, which is not true, at least not in the case of the big three. Their averages reflect the 'match situations' (early collapses) that these three have invariably found themselves in. You don't judge technique by averages, you see it by watching a batsman actually playing live. Inzi, Younis, and MoYo are some of the best players of pace bowling, in fact they almost relish it.
Just because 'Tendulkar, Lara, and whoever lese you named above are "exceptional batsmen" as you 'prove' with averages above, doesn't mean that everybody else is a flat track bully.
fb, I have always said that and its well known too, you guys had better batsmen in last decade or so. You can call them Flat track bullies if you want. For us Sachin is a great batsmen but not a match winner. Now you argue that if you didn't like it. But stats will show you that our FTB have won matches in very cruicial times as compare to selfish Sachin. Dravid is an example in your own team, no matter what position he plays on, will always have excellent finishing instead of worrying about his centuries and records. He plays for nation.
Again... I agree Sachin is not a match winner. Kitni baar kahun but it doesnt take away fact that Inzi and Yoyo stuggled big time in AUS and SA hence they are flat track bullies.
