what are soldiers then? they are groomed killers. and your culture promotes them very well.
you got my point.
Argument is only good if it stays in real world IF we switch to utopia like ideology then I rather shuushh
dont listen to PSquared, nadz. she is one of them fake bleeding-heart liberals. she can naff off innit!
i respect your views greatly. you are a great asset. a diamond. .
i dont HATE THEM......my issue was with the interpreatations of the quran that were being posted. otherwise i have no issue with them. cos if i did, i wouldnt have tried my best to `listen to/help tto1 when he first posted his thread on him thinking he was gay.
if you go back to that thread and read my comments, they are not of hatred.
What the Hell i dnt know why people here are argueing.
And if some People actually read the objective of this thread which i stated clearly in my *opening post, is not to repeat/pronounce again the GayNess is Haraam in Islam, but infact being in *
Defence Of Allah and His Messenger Mohmmads Stance towards Gayness. (pbuh).
There is begiining to develop ignorance on Gup.Shup in few minds that Gayness is allowable or justifiable from the koran or Ilsam, and are wrongly and sinfully making referrals from Islam.
I simply wanted to** reinforce that this is absolute Rubbish and False Intrepretation, and that one should not make intrepretations and claims that boldly from the Koran if they are not sure.**
Chanda ji. I know most people on gup.shup understand the clear haraam in islam of homosexuality.
But i just cudnt help being angered by a few peoples including the gay campaigners blatent ignorance and slanderous statements agsint Islam.
I made this thread to put them straight. If they want to be gay or support gay it is up to them it is thier life and freewill, but kindly do not falsely justify it from Islam which is disrespectful.
Islam is absolutely clear on the Gay matter, if anybody is not sure, dont take my advice but take it from the Authorities of your own school of thought, which are the scholars.
If you are sunni-hanafi for example go to any hanafi scholar and you will get the same answer as mostly what your getting from gup.shup.
If you are wahabi go to your wahabi scholars and i bet you will again get the same answer being stated in gupshup.
I know ther isnt mcuh point creating a thread just a for a few ignorant people. But i also created this to emphazize that not only doing a haram is sinful in islam but also is a sin of supporting it or encouraging it in anyway....which also more than a few peolpe are doing on this forum.
Chanda Ji. I did state in my opneing post, like you said that the judgemnet of every individual is ofcourse with Alllah,
but it you should understand that there are clear and sahih hadiths which talk about homosexual people not being allowed to enter heaven.
We are nobody to judge, but in the light and context of all the Islamic literature on gayness, which is clearly nothing but against gayism, we should accordingly restrain from publically symphathziing for it which is a form of encouragement to gay people/gay culture, which is wrong.
For example we know that some people have a mental disorder of stealing/pick-pocketing, known as Kleptomaniacs, but we cannot go around symphatizing for them as thier actions are haraam, and as other haraams not only affect themself negativly but also society.
I hope People also get that like any other Haraam, the haraam of Gayness is not only detrimental for the doer but also to the society.
It is a negative influence.
And I do hope people would watch thier ass before SLANDERING ALLAH by advocating Gayness from Islam.
Many guppies have already quoted the relevant proofs/hadith/ayats in support of the clear banning, in earlier threads so i hope i do not have to.
And i think Chanda Ji your also a little mistaken in Nadz viewpoints, If you checkout her latest but now closed thread, you will realise she was not simply just repeating gayness is haraam in islam and was not acting childish.
Infact i feel her being one of the younger members of gup.shup what she is did something brave and mature in defending her religion from blaspmhemy.
Nadz Girl u chill out. It was impressive what u did.
But note we should still 'debate with them in the best of manners' as quoted in the koran, and try to help as much as possible from our emotions flarring.
and trust me not everyone one is homo here gal.
And i know this thread is getting too much now.
BOTTOM LINE;
DONT SPEAK OR PREACH WHAT THE SCHOLARS OF YOUR FIQH DONT PREACH.
THE SCHOLARS KNOW THIER WORK AND THEY KNOW BETTER WHERE ISLAM, IF DOES, ALLOWS MANEOVERE AND WHERE NOT.
KINDLY LEAVE THAT TO THEM.
DONT SELF FATWA. IF YOU ARE IN A PROBLEM, PRIVATLY SEEK FATWA FROM A SCHOALR.
A ONE FOR ALL RULE DOES NOT APPLY.
nice one Zobia…
queer…?
i never met anyone who is gay and pray five times a day, in fact not any gay who believes in the "Wahidiat of SWT", since they are preoccupied by gay thoughts.
have u ever met someone who is gay and prays five times a day, and also recite Quran?
I have met gays who are attracted to the same gender but also believe in Allah swt and dont go down that path. Are they still going to Hell? I dont know but I'd like to think not because they are literally fighting with a temptation in them and following Allah swt's word. You forget there isnt much difference in the punishment for having sexual relations as a homosexual or a heterosexual. Its the same struggle...only different players.
You or I dont know what will become of them.
You may not have seen a lot of gays praying 5 times a day but its not like all of the straight Muslims pray all 5 of them either. We're worse! We see no problem anymore in having boyfriends and girlfriends left, right and center. Yet here we are going haram haram to homosexuality. At least a gay person tries to stay in the closet and has the decency to be ashamed or feel guilty for his/her sin. We dont even do that anymore! We OPENLY date, drink and are proud of it. Have you been looking at our latest Pakistani fashion at all? How would all of those people who have participated in the above mentioned activities like to be told they're going to be taking the express route to Hell?
My point is Zobia...homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of Allah swt...but they are HIS eyes...not ours.
Lets FOCUS on things we WILL be questioned about...like our OWN sins.
Hum kisi ko Jahannum bhejne valey koi nahin hein. Jisne humein banaya hai....Jahannum aur Jannat ka faisla sirf VO karte hein. Behter ye hai ke hum apne aap pe thorda zyada dehan dein aur dosron ka faisla unke Khuda ko karne dein.
Allah swt sirf apke aur mere nahin hein...sabke hein.
i never met anyone who is gay and pray five times a day, in fact not any gay who believes in the "Wahidiat of SWT", since they are preoccupied by gay thoughts.
lol zobia, are you preoccupied by hetero thoughts?
why so presumptive about what gays think?
Re: Final Islamic Verdict on Gayness
Chnda Ji
The point is not to condemn Gays but to not encourage gays/gay culture by any means as it is a HARAAM they same way we should not encourage any other Haraam by any means.
As a good muslim the same way we should not be finger-pointing at others the same way we should not in any way by our actions be encouraging the wrong.
Re: Final Islamic Verdict on Gayness
One thingy, oh mighty scholars.
who will be a better Muslim, according to Quran?
a practicing gay who prays 5 times a day, been to Mecca, does charity etc etc
or
a wife beating hetero man who skips his prayers with his will, havent been to Haj yet, does charity for publicity/image sake only etc etc.
and how come gays are bound to have their heads 'preoccupied with gay thoughts' and no space for religion, while hetero minds are all for God??
Re: Final Islamic Verdict on Gayness
im glad you had the time chanda to write a monologue about me. funny how you seem to remember everything i have ever posted about or contributed in. i dont really keep in touch withe veryones posts as obsessivly as you do.
sad cow. if you think your so mature and ooo laa laa laa sophis, then act it love. cos your letting yourself down by writing dissertations on nadz viewpoints and completely missing the point. my point was to do with the quran.
however you seem to have missed the point. and gone way off mark, as usual.
anyway try READING all posts PROPERLY before you engage your mouth into sprouting BS, you do not seem to have got the gist of the thread starter, and if you do not understand/comprehend whats going on, then bigger off and dont reply in your im so smart BS.
cos u aint.
One thingy, oh mighty scholars.
who will be a better Muslim, according to Quran?
a practicing gay who prays 5 times a day, been to Mecca, does charity etc etc
or
a wife beating hetero man who skips his prayers with his will, havent been to Haj yet, does charity for publicity/image sake only etc etc.
and how come gays are bound to have their heads 'preoccupied with gay thoughts' and no space for religion, while hetero minds are all for God??
so are you saying, that a gay wont ever be a wife beater. are you saying gay muslims are 5 times prayers.
our point is that the quran has been altered for their benefits......
our point is not whether they will go to hell/heaven.
they can go whereever they wish. just dont alter the quran. hetero or not.
funny how you like to group heteros into a category of wife beaters who skip prayers. how generic.
so are you saying, that a gay wont ever be a wife beater. are you saying gay muslims are 5 times prayers.
our point is that the quran has been altered for their benefits......
our point is not whether they will go to hell/heaven... they can go whereever they wish. just dont alter the quran. hetero or not.
funny how you like to group heteros into a category of wife beaters who skip prayers. how generic.
really lady, now who's twisting what? i asked whether a wife beating hetero is a bigger sinner or a Allah loving gay? and you throw stuff like 'putting heteros into wife beater category'.
there are gays who do pray 5 times a day. shocked? scandalized?? incredulous???
and no, unless the gay man is 'cured', like some hakims and mullahs claim they can be, gay usually are not wife beaters. they dont want a wife in the first place.
and whats the **** about a 'major' sin and a 'minor' sin? a sin is a sin is a sin.
it includes not wearing a hijab and talking to na-mehram guys AND being a gay AND flogging gals in public, according to the holy book.
now would you please reply to the original question?
your question is very impractical in todays life.
I doubt u will find practicing and 5 times praying gay people.
So i will opt out of answering your question.
(Lol Nadz)
your question is very impractical in todays life.
I doubt u will find practicing and 5 times praying gay people.
So i will opt out of answering your question.
(Lol Nadz)
Have you met every single Gay Muslim in the world?
There are people who pray 5 times a day but think it's okay for them to drink.
There are people who pray 5 times a day and also engage in black magic.
I know someone who prays 5 times a day but gossips more than a magazine.
Jee, how is Allah going to judge someone who prays 5 times a day but practices black magic...............and an individual who is gay and who suppresses his gay feelings and prays sincerely to Allah and also respects others??????????????
The thing is that we don't' know what is in someone's heart. There are many things that are WRONG in Islam..............and we can only encourage and guide one to do what's right. BUT we can't force anyone to do what is right. And outright condemning people to hell is not going to strengthen their faith. So, you guide people gently............................and then let them make their own decisions about what path they should take in life.
Judging is very difficult to do. It's complicated. There are way too many factors to take into account. Let's say that there is a heterosexual person who prays namaz and fulfills all the five pillars of Islam BUT..........does all these things to show off and think he's better than everyone. And let's say there is someone who has gay inclinations but prays and worships Allah with the utmost sincerity. Who is better in Allah'e eyes? A hypocrite heterosexual? Or a sincerely worshiping homo? This is why judging is sooo complicated and we should leave it to Allah.
im glad you had the time chanda to write a monologue about me. funny how you seem to remember everything i have ever posted about or contributed in. i dont really keep in touch withe veryones posts as obsessivly as you do.
sad cow. if you think your so mature and ooo laa laa laa sophis, then act it love. cos your letting yourself down by writing dissertations on nadz viewpoints and completely missing the point. my point was to do with the quran.
however you seem to have missed the point. and gone way off mark, as usual.
anyway try READING all posts PROPERLY before you engage your mouth into sprouting BS, you do not seem to have got the gist of the thread starter, and if you do not understand/comprehend whats going on, then bigger off and dont reply in your im so smart BS.
cos u aint.
Actually, I dont remember every single thing you wrote...just the stupid stuff because Im so amazed people like you actually breathe and havent been run over by a truck yet. It really is remarkable...consider yourself lucky.
Anyway, judging from your threads and BS you post ALL over GS ALL the time...you have a LOT of work to do before you start attacking anyone else's beliefs, morals or lifestyle. An idiot who actually thinks she isnt perving when she asks a forum full of men and women what to wear on her wedding night...is asking for this. Yeah, I think you're a pervert...its always one stupid question after another. Im not even sorry about it...you really are pathetic and judging from your posts...British...at least the US and Pakistan dont have to worry about harboring the village idiot. Ick.
Its also usually people like this who end up being the worst off. The finger-pointers and Google-Mullahs.
One more thing: if you feel the Qur'an has been altered or changed -which it hasnt of course - do something about it. Coming here and pretending to be religious doesnt cut it.
Re: Final Islamic Verdict on Gayness
HADITH:
Abu Hurairah mentions that **people **said to the Prophet (Pbuh):
“Messenger of Allah, a certain woman stands up for prayer at night and fasts during the day, and does many a good thing and gives money for charity, but she offends her neighbours with what she says.” He said: “She is not a good person. She is one of the people of the fire.” They said: “A certain woman prays only obligatory prayers and gives little for charity but she does not offend anyone. The Prophet said: “she is one of the people of heaven.” (Related by Ahmad, Al-Bukhari in Al-Adab Al-Mufrad and others)
**
^Leave judging to Allah.**
Re: Final Islamic Verdict on Gayness
p squared, why are you getting so aggitated .. It is all in the sense of humour, no? :)
Chanda Ji...nobody is a google proclaimed scholar here.
However if you doubt authenticity of any of my threads posting you are more than welcome to check up with your favourite sunni scholar.
^ R.V
I think you did not grasp the point of thsi thread like other despite me on numerous occasions reminding it.
I have not in any of the posts of this thread, judgeed or implicated judement of gay people.
Oh yes but what i may have done is simply replicate what Allah or his Messnegers Judgement on People that Activly Practice Gayness.
I do wish if people suffer from intreprtating/comprehendening Islamic law they could atleast make the effort to correctly intrepret basic gup.shup threads.
In none of my posts did i make any personal judgement on Gay peoples outcomes.
Pls read my posts carefully before asserting somthing that leads astray the course of the thread and i may have to refute again.
PSquared, amir_pindi and nadz: all three of you are saying the same freaking thing. Please stop writing posts about Quran, Allah swt and call each other names and swear at the same time. How incredibly ironic.
Chanda Ji...nobody is a google proclaimed scholar here. However if you doubt authenticity of any of my threads posting you are more than welcome to check up with your favourite sunni scholar.
^ R.V
I think you did not grasp the point of thsi thread like other despite me on numerous occasions reminding it.
I have not in any of the posts of this thread, judgeed or implicated judement of gay people.
Oh yes but what i may have done is simply replicate what Allah or his Messnegers Judgement on People that Activly Practice Gayness.
I do wish if people suffer from intreprtating/comprehendening Islamic law they could atleast make the effort to correctly intrepret basic gup.shup threads.
In none of my posts did i make any personal judgement on Gay peoples outcomes.
Pls read my posts carefully before asserting somthing that leads astray the course of the thread and i may have to refute again.
LOOK Amir,
The problem is that once again you have misunderstood my post.
I KNOW that being gay is haram according to Islam. I only said that we should GENTLY guide one who is on the wrong path. BUT it's wrong to be "guide" someone in a harsh manner that breaks their spirit......and it's wrong to force someone to do something against their will. One should guide gently but the ultimate decision rests with the individual. HE/SHE can decide what they want to do with their life. My posts above do not contain EXTREME comments/suggestions. The advice is simple, reasonable, and practical.
Also, I was ADDRESSING your comment that "I doubt you will find practicing and 5 time praying gay people". I disagree with your comment because it's rather stereotypical and generalized. YOU have NOT met every single GAY Muslim in the world to be boldly making such a remark.
For all you know.......there might be some people who have gay tendencies in their nature BUT they could be trying to suppress those feelings for the sake of Allah.....and trying their best to be a good human being.
Kind of like the example of how............a single straight guy........suppresses his sexual urges toward women............and avoids committing zina.......for the sake of Allah.
You can find many people in this world who have bad habits (drinking, gambling, zina, stealing, gossiping, black magic) but some of them STILL pray 5 times a day! Go look at the hadith I posted above and try to understand it. Based on that hadith.........sirf namaz, roza, zakat.......ki base par nahin insaan ko judge kiya jaye ga. A person's heart/character are also going to be judged. And you *MISSED **that point when you made the comment that *"I doubt you'll find a gay person praying 5 times a day". **
Amir Bhai.....................sirf 5 dafa namaz parne se banday ko Jannat ki ticket nahin mil jaati. Insaan ki niyat, us ka dil, bhi dekha jata hai.
The point is that YES being gay is HARAM. Lekin let Allah do the judging. What if there is a person who is gay...................but he has other very many good habits............jis ki vajha se Allah us ko maaf kar de?
My mom says that kuch pata nahin Allah ko apnay banday main aisi kya khoobi nazar aa jaye jis ki wajha se woh us ko maaf kar de.
And I was only addressing that one comment of yours in your post.
Amir,
If your read my posts you will find that I'm not encouraging or advocating homosexuality. I'm only saying that one should guide gently, leave the final decision to the individual, and then leave the ultimate judging to Allah. I'm not advocating nor encouraging being gay. So your following comment:
"Pls read my posts carefully before asserting somthing that leads astray the course of the thread and i may have to refute again."
IS POINTLESS as I have not said anything to lead anyone astray. What often makes YOU misunderstood by people are your generalized/stereotypical comments that don't account for exceptions.
The only other point that I made in my previous post is that being gay and praying namaz has little connection. And that is why your comment that "*I doubt u will find practicing and 5 times praying gay people" is VERY WEAK. * Because there are many people who do haram things (black magic, stealing, zina, gossip, backbiting, corruption, molesting, gambling).........but they also pray 5 times a day. Haven't you sometimes heard stories of a few maulvies in Pakistan who come to teach the kids Quran but at the same time they secretly molest the children? And then that same maulvi with his topi and beard goes to the majid to lead the prayer. Yes, what the maulvi does is haram. But let Allah be the judge as to who is worse.......the molesting hypocritical maulvi..............or the gay person. If Allah was to ONLY base the ticket to Jannat on praying namaz..................then many bad people might end up in Heaven. And many decent people might end up in Hell. Judgement is very complicated, so it's best left to Allah.