I'm not picking on your post, but for the sake of argument....in the West where promiscuity/premarital sex is not only rampant but lauded and encouraged....don't you think "I love you" is thrown around rather haphazardly in the West as well? People could say those three words and not mean them just to get laid. What about the divorce rate? Also, since going from one relationship to the next is also common in the West, could this not also lead to "I love you" being thrown about easily?
In Pakistan premarital relationships are discouraged and such interactions are only acceptable within the context of a marriage. Gray areas such as having a crush are not encouraged. With marriage being the end goal...a restrictive society....lack of relationship experience...all these factors lead one to attribute first-time butterflies/interactions/ relationships to being in love. So, since romance is only acceptable within a marriage and that it's the end goal...can it not be said that "I love you" is more sacred in Pakistan....that it's a bigger deal...that it's not treated lightly....especially if it comes with the sincere effort to make the relationship halal/jaiz? I do agree with you that the lack of experience due to religious and societal restrictions lends a naivete to the understanding of love. And naïveté leads one to be hasty in the judgment of their own feelings and that of the other person. But as for your saying that love is more "sacred" in the West .....yikes....I feel that's questionable.
I don't think MM was implying that love is more sacred or taken more seriously in the West than Pakistan, but rather that people are not so quick to express their love, which I've found this to be accurate. In other words, in Western society people are expected to get to know each other quite well before getting married (and note, I'm not referring to casual sex here but actual marriage, since that is the context the OP is referring to) and the underlying assumption is that you have to actually know someone in order to love them. In contrast, in an arranged marriage people don't get to know one another well before marriage, and therefore, it does seem a bit premature to say you love someone you've only met a handful of times, let alone actually know well.
As far as premarital sex and people simply saying "I love you" in order to land one night stands, that does not fall into the context being discussed here because in those situations, there is no expectation of love or even an actual relationship outside of sex by the people involved (or by society, really) and therefore, saying "I love you" in such situations is irrelevant.
I brought up sacred because MM used the word as one way among others to differentiate Western love from love in Pakistan. Your point about not being able to know the other person well in an arranged marriage setting was already stated in my post. I know that restrictions in our society lead to a hasty or naive judgment about love. I understand what MM is saying about I love you being rushed in Pakistan/India, etc...and I agree...I have seen that myself. But the use of the word sacred is what I find weird. How do you determine which culture treats love as more sacred? The problems in Western society don't quite mirror the sacredness of love despite the emphasis on getting to know someone really well before marriage. Instead love seems more overrated when you reflect on the ills in Western society.
How do you determine which culture treats love as more sacred? .
My point was that, despite the wording, I don't think MM was attempting to determine this or even imply that one culture views love as more "scared" than another. I agree that the word sacred may not have been the best choice. As an aside, I also think the hasty and naive judgements you describe, as well as the casual use of "I love you" being described here, may also be influenced by what people see in films and on the telly, particularly the saccharine, unrealistic love stories found in many Indian films.
i can't speak to your situation exactly, but maybe we can help each other understand our future spouse's POV? Is yours an arranged match?
Good idea, yup mine is an arranged marriage. We both live in Pakistan and were brought up here, she's a little bit shy. We got engaged in March, and due to be married in December. Our mode of communication is texting, skyping and the occassional call. We've been to a few dates too.
So, ask something, then I'll ask maybe we'll both get peace :D
Good idea, yup mine is an arranged marriage. We both live in Pakistan and were brought up here, she's a little bit shy. We got engaged in March, and due to be married in December. Our mode of communication is texting, skyping and the occassional call. We've been to a few dates too.
So, ask something, then I'll ask maybe we'll both get peace :D
Sounds good. My situation is kind if different because we've met like a handful of times since we live on different continents.
Please don't get offended but I'm genuinely curious about how you can have developed feelings for someone on such a short acquaintance. Moreover (if like me, you haven't dated before), how are you comfortable expressing those feelings especially to someone who is still essentially a stranger?
Your turn. Ask away :)
There is a different between promiscuity/ relations with out any feeling/ emotions attached, and romantic relationships/ feelings involved. Having crushes, having feelings, liking someone… Anyone could have those feelings. Heck, I have a massive crush on SRK but I wouldn’t go as far to say that I’m in love with him…
You’re both right, I didn’t mean sacred. Should have used “valuable”… And I don’t mean “love” itself is more valuable… but the phrase “i love you” is def more ‘valuable’.
And your point that “premarital relationships in Pak are discouraged”… You’re right. They are. But that doesn’t mean they don’t happen.
I don’t mean for one second that people back in Pak/ india don’t know how to or what love is. But I honestly believe that for them their actions speak louder than words. The phrase “i love you” is just something picked up from what is perceived to be the “right thing to do” according to bollywood/ hollywood.
ummm, wow! goodness you're his fiance, not wife... its quite inappropriate (read sinful) for muslims to be discussing these things.
Yes I know and you're right. We probably shouldn't be. But it's not like you're thinking. It's like hints and him telling me he's really excited for it. There's nothing explicit. Innuendos is as far as we've gotten ... for now. I was worried it might get out of hand so we had a heart to heart yesterday. I was pretty firm in that I' don't welcome this type of conversation. Boys are simple but protecting their egos is complicated.
Sounds good. My situation is kind if different because we've met like a handful of times since we live on different continents.
Please don't get offended but I'm genuinely curious about how you can have developed feelings for someone on such a short acquaintance. Moreover (if like me, you haven't dated before), how are you comfortable expressing those feelings especially to someone who is still essentially a stranger?
Your turn. Ask away :)
aah I see the problem. I will use negative terms about him so please don't get angry. The thing is this guy has a lot of "lust" for you, he probably imagines you and the wedding night a lot of the time. He just CAN'T wait for it for obvious reasons. Guys can be very horny all the time.
He throws I love yous all the time on you, so you might show affection to him, to which he gets off. He doesn't find this wrong, because after all you're in a legal relationship with him ... (guys imagine engagment and nikah are the same thing, the less mature ones).
So sister, you have horny teenager on your hands :D. It isn't bad, he'll take care of you and put your needs before him. And it isn't his fault, he is wired that way, all of us guys are.
My advice, please please quickly get married. And if you are not comfortable about talking naughty and dirty things on the phone .. (remember this has NOTHING to do with love, only with lust and horniness, he just wants to get laid), then totally cut all communications until marriage, because its a huge torture for him to be in a state of "half-marriage" where you are official but limited.
My question, what does it take for a girl to fall heads over heel over her fiance/husband? What should he do? any tips?
aah I see the problem. I will use negative terms about him so please don't get angry. The thing is this guy has a lot of "lust" for you, he probably imagines you and the wedding night a lot of the time. He just CAN'T wait for it for obvious reasons. Guys can be very horny all the time.
He throws I love yous all the time on you, so you might show affection to him, to which he gets off. He doesn't find this wrong, because after all you're in a legal relationship with him ... (guys imagine engagment and nikah are the same thing, the less mature ones).
So sister, you have horny teenager on your hands :D. It isn't bad, he'll take care of you and put your needs before him. And it isn't his fault, he is wired that way, all of us guys are.
My advice, please please quickly get married. And if you are not comfortable about talking naughty and dirty things on the phone .. (remember this has NOTHING to do with love, only with lust and horniness, he just wants to get laid), then totally cut all communications until marriage, because its a huge torture for him to be in a state of "half-marriage" where you are official but limited.
My question, what does it take for a girl to fall heads over heel over her fiance/husband? What should he do? any tips?
That was pretty blunt. I think it might take me some time to process that.
But to answer your question: Never make your girl think you only want her for her body. That's never a fun place to be. Most girls are insecure about their looks/body and this kind of thing just makes it seem like extra pressure. If you want to make her fall for you, be sweet and kind to her (nice guys do NOT finish last). Listen to what she says. And take her advice on important issues. She'll want to know that you respect her brains. That's not to say that you don't compliment her looks; just don't go overboard. And don't be a cliche. Try to be original. Find out way her likes and dislikes are and use that to your advantage. Whatever you do, do not act like a jealous boyfriend. That's only attractive if youre Ryan Gosling or Hugh Jackman.
Hope that helps!
That was pretty blunt. I think it might take me some time to process that.
But to answer your question: Never make your girl think you only want her for her body. That's never a fun place to be. Most girls are insecure about their looks/body and this kind of thing just makes it seem like extra pressure. If you want to make her fall for you, be sweet and kind to her (nice guys do NOT finish last). Listen to what she says. And take her advice on important issues. She'll want to know that you respect her brains. That's not to say that you don't compliment her looks; just don't go overboard. And don't be a cliche. Try to be original. Find out way her likes and dislikes are and use that to your advantage. Whatever you do, do not act like a jealous boyfriend. That's only attractive if youre Ryan Gosling or Hugh Jackman.
Hope that helps!
Ok good advice. Although do tell if what I said about him made sense to you.
Just another tiny question, my girl talks less, acts a bit indifferent when with me. Doesn't show too much emotion, and it hurts me. I feel shes forcefully with me. I tried asking her that, but she says no she likes being with me and that isn't the case. I always thought that having a fiance would be like having a girl friend just like in the movies :D ... I was SOO wrong ..
Ok good advice. Although do tell if what I said about him made sense to you.
Just another tiny question, my girl talks less, acts a bit indifferent when with me. Doesn't show too much emotion, and it hurts me. I feel shes forcefully with me. I tried asking her that, but she says no she likes being with me and that isn't the case. I always thought that having a fiance would be like having a girl friend just like in the movies :D ... I was SOO wrong ..
Yea it kinda does. It's just thinking about that freaks the hell outa me, but I guess guys are just wire differently.
Real life is definitely not like the movies. Even people who are dating don't act that way. I would give her the benefit of doubt. She might just be nervous, or it may be tha she's having residual feelings of guilt. By tht I mean, us brown girls hav spen all our lives putting up walls against guys so it's kind if hard to let down our defenses all of a sudden. Just curious. Do guys not feel that way? No unfounded feelings of guilt? No fear of the unknown?
Yea it kinda does. It's just thinking about that freaks the hell outa me, but I guess guys are just wire differently.
Real life is definitely not like the movies. Even people who are dating don't act that way. I would give her the benefit of doubt. She might just be nervous, or it may be tha she's having residual feelings of guilt. By tht I mean, us brown girls hav spen all our lives putting up walls against guys so it's kind if hard to let down our defenses all of a sudden. Just curious. Do guys not feel that way? No unfounded feelings of guilt? No fear of the unknown?
Umm I don't understand, why the guilt? Guilt means you did something wrong. Us guys feel it is finally our time to shine, finally we have a girl who we can shower with love, affection and all that, be all romeo and Fawad Khan on them :D ... We share our feelings and all that... About the fear of unknown, yes in moments when we feel down, we do feel that what have we done? Our lives are ruined, we have a another person in our life to who we have to answer, our independence is gone, no longer can I walk shirt less, don't shave for weeks and throw my clothes around the house and wake up whenever the hell I want... :D
But then we look at the bright side, finally we can cuddle up to someone who smells nice in a comfy blanket with pop-corn and watch a movie and laugh at it :D... This feeling fills us with joy, and we look forwards to it :D...
Umm I don't understand, why the guilt? Guilt means you did something wrong. Us guys feel it is finally our time to shine, finally we have a girl who we can shower with love, affection and all that, be all romeo and Fawad Khan on them :D ... We share our feelings and all that... About the fear of unknown, yes in moments when we feel down, we do feel that what have we done? Our lives are ruined, we have a another person in our life to who we have to answer, our independence is gone, no longer can I walk shirt less, don't shave for weeks and throw my clothes around the house and wake up whenever the hell I want... :D
But then we look at the bright side, finally we can cuddle up to someone who smells nice in a comfy blanket with pop-corn and watch a movie and laugh at it :D... This feeling fills us with joy, and we look forwards to it :D...
^ some ramblings from a guy's mind :D
I did say "unfounded" feelings of guilt. But now I think about it, Islam doesn't really recognize "engaged" as a marital state. It's nikah or nothing, so technically romantic interactions are still inappropriate at this stage, no?
I did say "unfounded" feelings of guilt. But now I think about it, Islam doesn't really recognize "engaged" as a marital state. It's nikah or nothing, so technically romantic interactions are still inappropriate at this stage, no?
That is the root of the problem, guys like me fail to understand this, while girls try to enforce this.
One thing I would say you do to help out the poor guy, is that, tell him in a playful way that there is a playful and naughty side to you too, and it will come out after nikah, so wait, for the fruit of patience, is very sweet.
And I don't know what to do! He wants me to say it back to him too.
To give you some context, I'm getting married Dec this year. It's completely arranged but I've met him (not alone) a few times and we talk pretty regularly. I've come to see him as a friend but I feel like he's miles ahead of me in the emotional attachment department. I usually brush it off, but I can tell he's getting impatient. Should I lie and say I love him even though I don't really feel that yet?
I'm so confused and I can't talk about this to my friends and family because they have no idea we talk about this kind of stuff. It's too embarrassing to tell them otherwise.
Ladies and laddies: I really need some advice!
A guy who falls in love too easily is to women what..
Not going to lie, that is so unattractive. Someone who is completely incapable of distinguishing like from love in the beginning stages of an interaction is acting like an idiot. My neighbor ended a rishta with her fiance because he kept insisting that he loved her even though they didn't know each other. That sounds super annoying.
