Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
So one not only needs to speak Arabic to know God's message, but has to be a native speaker to be an expert? Is Arabic the universal, intergalactic language of God? Yet another reason non-Muslims cannot bring themselves to accept the literal, fundamenatalist, traditional and cultural interpretation of Islam as the one, only, true religion.
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
^^
Do you even have any idea what we are talking about here?
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
So what shall we do about the Jewsih Messiah?
Dear I am refering the Quraanic verse not the verses from Injeel even if it were from Injeel, we have no right to distinguish between messengers of God Almighty to be of jewish, cristian or sami's. They are all Messangers of Allah SWT and all of them are Muslim According to Quraan.
Yes we have the right to ask qadyani massih to prove that he is a Quranic Massih.
By the way what were the duties of Hazrat Al-Masih Eisa Ibne Maryam Alehumas Salam that were compareable with Mirza Ghulam Ahmed **son of Mirza Ghulam Murtaza and Mussammat Chiragh Bibi. and in what way Mirza sahib resembles with Quranic Al-Masih Eisa Ibne Maryam A.S
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
So what shall we do about the Jewsih Messiah?
Ask the jews...
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
Dear I am refering the Quraanic verse not the verses from Injeel even if it were from Injeel, we have no right to distinguish between messengers of God Almighty to be of jewish, cristian or sami's. They are all Messangers of Allah SWT and all of them are Muslim According to Quraan.
Yes we have the right to ask qadyani massih to prove that he is a Quranic Massih.
By the way what were the duties of Hazrat Al-Masih Eisa Ibne Maryam Alehumas Salam that were compareable with Mirza Ghulam Ahmed **son of Mirza Ghulam Murtaza and Mussammat Chiragh Bibi. and in what way Mirza sahib resembles with Quranic Al-Masih Eisa Ibne Maryam A.S
You are missing the whole point. If you are saying that the word Messiah is used in the Quran only to describe Jesus son of Mary and it was the very first instance the word was ever used for a person. Then you have to defend your flawed argument against the jewish stance that Jews had this title in use long before Quran. You can not assume that Messiah is a word specific to Jesus alone. Jesus was The Messiah fortold in the Jewish prophecy that is why he was called Al-Maseeh in Quran. That Messiah came and did his job and passed away.
Ahadith mention the Messiah of Muslims.
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
You are missing the whole point. If you are saying that the word Messiah is used in the Quran only to describe Jesus son of Mary and it was the very first instance the word was ever used for a person. Then you have to defend your flawed argument against the jewish stance that Jews had this title in use long before Quran. You can not assume that Messiah is a word specific to Jesus alone. Jesus was The Messiah fortold in the Jewish prophecy that is why he was called Al-Maseeh in Quran. That Messiah came and did his job and passed away.
Ahadith mention the Messiah of Muslims.
This would be valid if Jewish Bible holds the same weight the creedence as Quran and Mirza was quoting it or using it as a reference to further his claim(s)...
Also, if Jesus was not the only messiah, then please enlighten us as to what other messiah's does Quran refer to specifically????
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
it might be a bit inconvenient for you guys to get off ur high horse but watch this video…
Non-ahmadi beliefs are examined in this video and they sure dont look pretty from a critical point of view.
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
This would be valid if Jewish Bible holds the same weight the creedence as Quran and Mirza was quoting it or using it as a reference to further his claim(s)...
Also, if Jesus was not the only messiah, then please enlighten us as to what other messiah's does Quran refer to specifically????
AGain you are trying to ignore the real issue here. Pre-Islamic texts clearly state the word Messiah. Who was he?
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
You are missing the whole point. If you are saying that the word Messiah is used in the Quran only to describe Jesus son of Mary and it was the very first instance the word was ever used for a person. Then you have to defend your flawed argument against the jewish stance that Jews had this title in use long before Quran. You can not assume that Messiah is a word specific to Jesus alone. Jesus was The Messiah fortold in the Jewish prophecy that is why he was called Al-Maseeh in Quran. That Messiah came and did his job and passed away.
Ahadith mention the Messiah of Muslims.
Salamun Alaikum
Ithink yes, it is the fact that Allah has specifically designated Hazrat Eisa Alehis Salam as Al-massih and it is proved from numerous verses of Quran among which Ayat of Sura Nisa no 171 says:
[RIGHT]يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْحَقِّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ فَآمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلاَثَةٌ انتَهُواْ خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللّهُ إِلَـهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَات وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَكَفَى بِاللّهِ وَكِيلاً {171 [/RIGHT]
Shakir **4:171** O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
Pickthal **4:171** O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
In this Ayat Allah uses the term 'Ina-ma" when saying that Al-Masih, Eisa, Son of marry was on a messenger of Allah. The term Ina-ma is used when one want to stress upon his statement to the extent of exclusiveness. In arabic this is called 'kalma-e-hasar' And gives the meaning of 'it means nothing but'. So in this ayat it is said that "it means nothing but Al-Masih, Eisa, Son of Mary is just a messenger of Allah and his kalima delivered unto Mary......." .
And if you more minutely look into this ayat then you will find that "Ina-ma-Al-masiho Eisa ibne Maryam" by itself is a complete sentance which means that "it means nothng but Al-masih is Eisa who is son of maryam" and resultantly means that Al-Masih is not Mirza Ghulam Ahmed son of Mirza Ghulam Murtaza and his wife Chiragh Bibi..
The same term is again used in the very same ayat as"Ina-ma-Allaho ilahun wahid..." giving the same exclusive impression as "it means nothing but Allah is the the only lord"
So this is the miracle of Quraan that it embadded all the precautions in it that whenever any one stand to claim that he is a massih, this ayat will declare him a Kzzab instantly.
Iltemase dua
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
This guy is fundamentally wrong and deceptive. Hazrat Isa’s prayed to Allah to be from the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) ummah, and his prayer was accepted. Hence, he will come ONLY AND ONLY as an ummati( follower) of Mohammad (PBUH)
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
PLUS he does not know that “Rasoolan Ilaa Bani Israel” is used in correct sense and he will come as “Rasoolan ilaa Bani Isreal” 
Any Rasool whose Ummah rejected him, according to Sunnah of ALLAH:swt:, were destroyed (Aad, Samood, qoum-e-Nooh etc.) - A rasool was never martyred (hence, Isa:as: was never crucified because it is against Quran to say that too for Allah has said that He and His Rasool will prevail) … [therefore, the distinction between NABI & RASOOL]
But the punishment of the Bani Israel was delayed as a mercy to them and it was told in Quran to them to accept Muhammad:saw: as the prophet and avoid it… those who rejected him and who will still be rejecting him will face the punishment from their own RASOOL - Rasoolan Ilaa Bani Israel - He will come as the follower of Quran (hence the ummati of Muhammad:saw: ) and not to implement his sharia…
itni moTi see baat hai jiss kaY khilaaf ghumaa ghumaa kar ulTi seedhi taa’veelaiN dee jaati haiN …
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
and he does not even know the ahaadeeth that Imam Mehdi 
will be an Arab and will appear in Makkah … and that he will not get revealation delivered by Jibrael:as: hence the basis is not even there for him to be a Nabi…
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
So what you are saying is that Imam Mehdi would not be appointed by Allah because he would not be getting any Wahi/Ilham. Then how would he know that he infact is Imam Mehdi.
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
So what you are saying is that Imam Mehdi would not be appointed by Allah because he would not be getting any Wahi/Ilham. Then how would he know that he infact is Imam Mehdi.
There will not be any wahi sent to him... according to ahaadeeth, a voice will come from above the sky *after *"abdaals" from shaam will recognize him in baitullah and do a "baiyat" on his hand.... and that is the common belief of all 4 school of thoughts based on various ahaadeeth.
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
^ so it’ll be a loudspeaker kindaa thing eh? everyone would hear the voice coming from above the sky that imaam mehdi has come? 
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
laugh as you will... everyone will hear the sound of SU'R too .. I bet you will laugh on it saying it will be a loud speaker voice too :)
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
man u dint get any of wot he said caz u were too busy luking for stuff to attack… listen to it a few times.
Rasoolan ilaa bani isreal means a messenger to bani israel. So are you saying he would come as a emssenger to bani israel again? if so, then he has no business telling the ummah or AnHazoor (saw) of wot to do or wot not to do.
i dont see the distinction between nabi and rasool in the above paragraph.
wait.. that made no sense.
He will be rasoolan bani israel and an ummati of AnHazoor(saw) at the same time?
baat kuch zayada hi moTi hai…
see the point in the above video was quite simple… seems like people dont want to understand it.
Wot he is saying is the following…
Non-ahmadis claim they belive in AnHazoor(saw) being the absolute last messanger after whom no other prophet can come. This in fact is not true.
Right after this claim, they are forced to say except Hazrat Issa(as) who will return as nabi ullah. So this second statement puts a dent into the earlier claim that no messenger can come wotsoever. Wot it implies is that a prophet can come provided he was born before AnHazoor(saw).
Then they claim that since he was born before and attained prophethood before AnHazoor(saw) therefore it doesn’t negate the idea of there being no prophet after AnHazoor(saw). Now we very humbly ask them whether Hazrat Issa’s(as) prophethood be the same as it was before or would there be a change in his prophethood – i.e. in the past he was a prophet to a certain nation while AnHazoor(saw) is a messenger to all nations of the world, so unless he has a new mandate to warn all nations, he can’t claim to be a prophet for the ummah of AnHazoor(saw). – in response to this they say he’ll be a messenger to all nations of the world as he would be in representation of AnHazoor(saw). Now that earlier claim that he was an old prophet and hence its ok for him to come back is negated. When he comes back he will not be the same old prophet, but his prophethood would’ve evolved. There is one more problem with this notion. When he comes back and claims to be a messenger to all nations of the world and tries to be a judge for the ummah, one could show him an ayah of the qura’an saying he is a messenger to the nation of isreal. After he comes back would that ayah be no longer valid?
The crux of the matter is that why is AnHazoor(saw) the last messenger? Does it mean that there is no need for a prophet anymore after AnHazoor(saw). If so then we dont need any nabi new or old. If the need for prophethood was still going to be there after AnHazoor(saw) then why would God stop prophethood. Here the speaker gives an analogy. If there is a thirst for water, then the one who stops water is deemed to be cruel and unjust, but if the thrist for water is no longer there then its perfectly OK if somone stops water.
Now the fact of the matter is that there was going to be a need for prophethodd after AnHazoor(saw), hence the reason Issa(as) was taken up according to non-ahmadis.
The speaker gives the definition of a nabi from the Qura’an which is: one who is appointed by Allah and whose obedience is obligatory. Can we get ur definition, from the Qura’an, plz?
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
AGain you are trying to ignore the real issue here. Pre-Islamic texts clearly state the word Messiah. Who was he?
I would think Messiah refers to Muhammad rasool-Allah who was to come after Messiah Yashu-ben-Mariam. I think that we muslims are waiting for people who have already come and gone... 1400years and 2000years to be exact.
Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community
laugh as you will... everyone will hear the sound of SU'R too .. I bet you will laugh on it saying it will be a loud speaker voice too :)
come on anwaar... have you ever heard of such bayyan and clear way of recognizing an apointee of Allah?
If such is the case then wot option does humanity have other than recognizing the apointee. Anbiyaa kay tayyun main hamaisha ikhfaa ka pehloo hota hai(there is always room for doubt in the recognition of prophets). The gud natured and pious recognize him and the ones whose hearts are shut find some reason to disbelieve. That is wot distinguishes the rightous from the vice.
If sun shines with all its brightness and somone says yeah the sun has come up, wots the rightousness in that? Everyone would say the sun has risen.
P.S. if we take ur word for it, then it would be called ilhaam which is strictly forbidden by u. The whole of humanity would get an ilhaam from Allah.