Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

The Fall of Ahmadiyya Community = The Fall of Godly Communities


We believe that with the passing of time people can become corrupt even in Godly communities. For example, after the death of Hazrat Muhammad (saww) Muslims were became corrupt after a **time period of just 30 years **of Khilafat-e-Rashida. Thus there is a possibility of corruption in any Godly community. Promised Messiah [aleh-salam] indicates his worries about the corrupt office holders in the Ahmadiyya Community he said;

[RIGHT]مجھے اس بات کا غم نہیں کہ یہ اموال (الوصیت) جمع کیونکر ہونگے، اور ایسی جماعت کیونکر پیدا ہوگی جو ایمانداری کے جوش سے یہ مردانہ کام دکھلائے۔ بلکہ مجھے فکر یہ ہے کہ ہمارے زمانہ کے بعد وہ لوگ جن کے سپرد ایسے مال کیئے جائیں وہ کثرت مال کو دیکھ کر ٹھوکر نہ کھاویں اور دنیا سے پیار نہ کریں۔ سو میں دعا کرتا ہوں کہ ایسے امین ہمیشہ اس سلسلہ کو ہاتھ آتے رہیں، جو خدا کے لئے کام کریں، ہاں جائز ہوگا کہ جن کا کچھ گزارا نہ ہوان کو بطور مددخرچ اس میں سے دیا جائے۔(رسالہ الوصیت میں دوسری شرط)۔[/RIGHT]

“I am not worried and grieved how and from where these funds (Wasiyyat Funds) would come, nor I am grieved about how such a community will be raised who, inspired by faith, shall demonstrate such heroic feats. Rather I am worried that after my age (time period), those persons (office holders) who will be entrusted with these funds may , seeing the abundance of funds, stumble and fall in love with the world. So, I pray that such honest people may always be found by the movement who work for God alone. However it shall be lawful that those who have no means to support themselves should be given something from these funds by way of help”. (see; Alwasiyyat; 2nd Condition).

Hence, if corruption is possible in office holders, then why is corruption not possible in Ahmadiyya Administrative System (Nizaam-e-Jamaat). Because, The System (nizaam) is set by members (Ohdedars) of the majlis-e-shura (Main Decision Making Body). It is quite possible and logical. Though, any suggestion or rule given by Ohdedars in majlis-e-shura pass by Khalifatul Masih. But what if Khalifa himself is corrupt? Is it not possible? Is it not possible that corrupt members (of Electoral college of khilafat) select a khalifatul Masih of their own choice and accord who is corrupt like them? Quite possible as it was possible in the time of Khilafat-e-rashida too. Was Hazrat Ameer Muawiya not chosen as a khalifa in corrupt situation? Did a muslim majority not accept him as a khalifa? Though, he was made by an un-islamic rule, but the point is if any un-islamic rule by muslims of the early age can make a khalifa, then why is it not possible in khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya? Promised Messiah [aleh-salam] said;

[RIGHT]میں نے صرف مثیل مسیح ہونے کا دعویٰ کیا ہے اور میرایہ بھی دعویٰ نہیں کہ صرف مثیل ہونا میرے پر ہی ختم ہوگیا ہےبلکہ میرے نذدیک ممکن ہے کہ آئندہ زمانوں میںمیرے جیسے اور دس ہزار بھی مثیل آجائیں۔ ہاں اس زمانہ کے لئے میں مثیل مسیح ہوں۔ (ازالہ اوہام۔ صفحہ ۱۹۷)۔[/RIGHT]

“I am the claimer of Promised Messiah, and this is not the only claim of mine, that only I am the one and the last Promised Messiah. Hence, according to me it is possible that after my age (time period) ten thousands (10, 000) promised Messiahs can come. but for this age (time period) I am the Promised Messiah”. (Azala Ohaam. Page: 197). This statment proves that if just Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya is sufficient for mankind’s guidance, then there is no need for further Messiahs. Also this statment explains the reality of “the second manifestation”, “Second Manifestation is everlasting and will not end till day of judgment” (Alwassiyat). that “Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya” is NOT the ONLY part of “second manifestation” The coming of more (10, 000) Promised Messiahs are included in “the second manifestation”

The response by Ahmadiyya System


In response to this, Ahmadiyya system (Nizaam-e-Jamaat) says that the mission of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani [aleh-salam] is to convert all the nations and religious people to Ahmadiyyat. That is why Ahmadiyya Community will not be corrupt untill it becomes the majority. Moreover they say that Hazrat Muahmmad (saww) prophesized that Khilafat-e-rashida will finish after 30 years but Prophet (saww) did not prophesized about ending of Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya. Thus Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya is everlasting and will not come to an end till Qayamah.

You see these arguments are so weak. and we have proved them wrong.
(1) Majority has never believed in Prophets nor Majority is the Truth Sign:


Quran is the book of Judgment. Allah says that;
**[58:22] **Allah has decreed: ‘Most surely, I will prevail, I and My Messengers.’ Verily, Allah is Powerful, Mighty.
so, this ‘Ghalba’ is not only attached with the Promised Messiah. Infact this is the sign of every Allah’s Messanger that he Prevail (Ghalib). Moreover, that Ghalba is not of Majority. because Majority has rejected the prophets. and Majority is never a sign of Truth. (Detail verses click here).

(2) Rules and Conditions about Khilafat can not be break by any Hadith or by any Person’s statment (even if he is a prophet):


The “Quran says that Allah will make Khalifa from among those who believes and do good deeds” (Nur: 56). So, This rule and condition will apply on Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya. As this Rule and condition was applied on Khilafat-e-Rashida. So, how khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya is different then Khilafat-e-rashida? If Khilafat-e-Rahida was become corrupt, then why Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya can’t?
Important Urdu Articles: [Must Read Every Ahmadi Muslim]
Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya can be Corrupt!
About Khalifa V - Few Questions from Ahmadis!
The Difference between Ahmadi & Non-Ahmadi

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

Mashallah-

I reasonable ahmedies start thinking in these lines i am hopefull that they will inshallah find more flaws in this system.

You can also find like minded people on this website.
www.ahmedi.org
Read this page as well
http://www.ahmedi.org/uart/FuritsofAhmediyyat

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

Who, knows maybe the Ahmdis are right and its the Sunnis that shall fall..
You guys are a bunch of religious morons.

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

Bhai jan-

Is there nay false statement? any misqoutations? any misrepresentation of facts ? if there are then come forward and correct them.

Otherwise your statement seems childish in front of Ijmah of whole ummah.

Wo karachi ki buses per likha hota hay na

Tappar hay tau pass ker warna bardasht ker :)

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

I think we as a nation have failed to understand the real importance of a religion. Religion, specially, Islam is here to spread peace. However, we see variety of hate crimes against minorities in Pakistan.

You take an example of Christianity or Ahmadiyyat, Pakistan is a hell-hole for both of them. Our treatment to them is shameful. I was reading on jang news that 2 weeks ago a policeman came and chopped an innocent ahmadi to pieces. Then killed himself. It was gruesome. Mullah all around Pakistan starting calling that killer a 'shaheed', a noble person, a defender of Islam.

my question is that is he? would Huzoor (pbuh) ever give order for that hate crime?

May Allah bless us with wisdom to hear and respect others. Thats the only way we can survive. Inshallah

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

we fight on if Imam Mahdi (as) has come or not, we fight, if Ahmadis are Muslim or not.... but we dont fight to make sure that every single individual in this country is safe disregard of their religion, race and ethincity.

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

we've been hearing about the fall of such and such and the zawaal of falana flanaana for ages now.. NOTHING has changed..

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

Ok, here is a history lesson for you.

In the late 1898, when Mirza Sahib's (as) followers were very few, mostly concentrated in Punjab and surroundings, the persecution of the new ones was high and the Malvi Sahiban claimed that they will "Qadian ko safa-e-hasti say mita daiN gay". (i.e. Will bring Qadian to ruins), Allah (swt) gave glad tidings to Mirza Sahib (as) in the following revelation.

"MaiN teri tabligh ko zameen kay kinarooN tak pohanchaoN ga" translation "I will cause thy message to reach the corners of the earth".

The MullaN laughed.

But now, Ahmadiyya Jamaat is established in 120 countries around the world, and the 24-hour Muslim Television Ahmadiyya pronounces the coming of the Messiah in every corner of the earth.

The truth of the matter is, similar claims have been made against every true prophet. Read the history to find out when and where Surah Al Kausar was reveled, and you will see the true ones always prosper and the opponents get more and more jealous.

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

May Allaah :swt: guide the Ahmadi’s back to Sirat Al-Mustaqeem, Aameen…

False Prophets (Dajjals) are a sign of the Hour, we seek refuge with The Exalted One.

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

[quote="ahmadjee, post:30, topic:157790"]

Ok, here is a history lesson for you.

In the late 1898, when Mirza Sahib's (as) followers were very few, mostly concentrated in Punjab and surroundings, the persecution of the new ones was high and the Malvi Sahiban claimed that they will "Qadian ko safa-e-hasti say mita daiN gay". (i.e. Will bring Qadian to ruins), Allah (swt) gave glad tidings to Mirza Sahib (as) in the following revelation.

"MaiN teri tabligh ko zameen kay kinarooN tak pohanchaoN ga" translation "I will cause thy message to reach the corners of the earth".

The MullaN laughed.

Can you please elaborate how and under what circumstance your beloved mirza sahib died and how come the name of the angel bringing so called wahi to him had an english name 'Teechee', how come he and his jamaat was so loved by the british

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

ISSABGHOOL
KUJ NA PHOL

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

:yawn: like really!

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

The Ahmadis translate ‘Khatam-ul-Ambiya’ for the Holy Prophet :saw: to mean ‘the best of the Prophets’, while scholars of Islam translate it to mean ‘the seal or the last of the Prophets’…

These people have changed their beliefs from the true Message of 1,400 years based on the sayings of a man who couldn’t speak Arabic let alone be his native language…

How grievously in error they are…

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

Lajjo, actually Ahmadis also translate Khatum as ‘seal’ or ‘ring’ (urdu angothi), but we don’t translate as in seal to shut. Instead, Seal is also meant for attestation, meaning now only the ummat of AnHazoor (saw) can bare nabi, not any borrowed Nabi from Bani-Israel.

Also regarding Arabic knowledge of Mirza Sahib (as) you might want to read the article Miraculous Knowledge of Arabic

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

Have you read these books? I tried to look for them, but found only rough translations…

And is there an actual Arabic speaking person who vouches for the authenticity of the language used in these books…And the one person who is claimed to have read this book from a critique POV, some Allama Rashid Raza from Egypt who ran Al-Manar, a newspaper, is decidedly absent from the internet…There is no record of such a man on the net at least…

And what were Mr. Allama Rashid Raza’s views after he read those books? Where is his critique?

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

Salam,
I personally do not support the ahmadia movement and I think mirza ghulam was a misguided person.

Indeed the exalted prophet Muhammad Mustafa was the final prophet and messenger as is VERY CLEARLY presented in the Quran.

What I am interested in is the translation of the word Khaatim as “Seal” … if you consider lexical analysis, it is translated not only as “Seal” but also as the CLOSING STAMP beyond which there is no further degree.

So if we are to translate Khatim as “seal” it is a partial meaning and has to be completed with the complete lexical interpretation of “Final Seal” or Finality or End or Completion…

Based on the root, here is the meaning:

Kh-Ta-Miim = To seal/stamp/imprint/impress, to secure/protect oneself against a thing, produce an impression or effect upon a thing, reach the end of a thing.

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

In urdu language we often use the word “Makkaar”. which means one who is dishonest.

But in Arabic language this word use in some other meaning. “wallaho khairul maakireen”. here we do not take this word as dishonesty.

then there is a word “khatam” in urdu language, which mean end/finish and nothing else.

But when we use this word in arabic language, it has more than one meaning. for example. Ending, Seal, Ring, etc. now if you concentrate on these meanings, you will know that they are different from one another.

Ring is not use for ending.
Seal is not only use for ending. it also use for authenticity.
Ending only means finishing.
Now, see what Prophet Muhammad sallallaho alehewassalam has called the coming Messiah!

أوحى الله إلى ‏ ‏عيسى

نبي الله ‏ ‏عيسى

حدثنا ‏ ‏أبو خيثمة زهير بن حرب ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏الوليد بن مسلم ‏ ‏حدثني ‏ ‏عبد الرحمن بن يزيد بن جابر ‏ ‏حدثني ‏ ‏يحيى بن جابر الطائي ‏ ‏قاضي ‏ ‏حمص ‏ ‏حدثني ‏ ‏عبد الرحمن بن جبير ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبيه ‏ ‏جبير بن نفير الحضرمي ‏ ‏أنه سمع ‏ ‏النواس بن سمعان الكلابي ‏ ‏ح ‏ ‏و حدثني ‏ ‏محمد بن مهران الرازي ‏ ‏واللفظ له ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏الوليد بن مسلم ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏عبد الرحمن بن يزيد بن جابر ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏يحيى بن جابر الطائي ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏عبد الرحمن بن جبير بن نفير ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبيه ‏ ‏جبير بن نفير ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏النواس بن سمعان ‏ ‏قال ‏
‏ذكر رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏الدجال ‏ ‏ذات غداة ‏ ‏فخفض ‏ ‏فيه ورفع حتى ظنناه في طائفة النخل فلما رحنا إليه عرف ذلك فينا فقال ‏ ‏ما شأنكم قلنا يا رسول الله ذكرت ‏ ‏الدجال ‏ ‏غداة ‏ ‏فخفضت ‏ ‏فيه ورفعت حتى ظنناه في طائفة النخل فقال غير ‏ ‏الدجال ‏ ‏أخوفني عليكم إن يخرج وأنا فيكم فأنا ‏ ‏حجيجه ‏ ‏دونكم وإن يخرج ولست فيكم فامرؤ ‏ ‏حجيج ‏ ‏نفسه والله خليفتي على كل مسلم إنه شاب ‏ ‏قطط ‏ ‏عينه ‏ ‏طافئة ‏ ‏كأني أشبهه ‏ ‏بعبد العزى بن قطن ‏ ‏فمن أدركه منكم فليقرأ عليه فواتح سورة ‏ ‏الكهف ‏ ‏إنه خارج ‏ ‏خلة ‏ ‏بين ‏ ‏الشأم ‏ ‏والعراق ‏ ‏فعاث ‏ ‏يمينا ‏ ‏وعاث ‏ ‏شمالا يا عباد الله فاثبتوا قلنا يا رسول الله وما لبثه في الأرض قال أربعون يوما يوم كسنة ويوم كشهر ويوم كجمعة وسائر أيامه كأيامكم قلنا يا رسول الله فذلك اليوم الذي كسنة ‏ ‏أتكفينا فيه صلاة يوم قال لا اقدروا له قدره قلنا يا رسول الله وما إسراعه في الأرض قال كالغيث ‏ ‏استدبرته ‏ ‏الريح فيأتي على القوم فيدعوهم فيؤمنون به ويستجيبون له فيأمر السماء فتمطر والأرض فتنبت ‏ ‏فتروح ‏ ‏عليهم ‏ ‏سارحتهم ‏ ‏أطول ما كانت ‏ ‏ذرا ‏ ‏وأسبغه ضروعا ‏ ‏وأمده خواصر ‏ ‏ثم يأتي القوم فيدعوهم فيردون عليه قوله فينصرف عنهم فيصبحون ‏ ‏ممحلين ‏ ‏ليس بأيديهم شيء من أموالهم ويمر ‏ ‏بالخربة ‏ ‏فيقول لها أخرجي كنوزك فتتبعه كنوزها ‏ ‏كيعاسيب ‏ ‏النحل ثم يدعو رجلا ممتلئا شبابا فيضربه بالسيف فيقطعه ‏ ‏جزلتين ‏ ‏رمية الغرض ‏ ‏ثم يدعوه فيقبل ويتهلل وجهه يضحك فبينما هو كذلك إذ بعث الله ‏ ‏المسيح ابن مريم ‏ ‏فينزل عند ‏ ‏المنارة البيضاء ‏ ‏شرقي ‏ ‏دمشق ‏ ‏بين ‏ ‏مهرودتين ‏ ‏واضعا كفيه على أجنحة ملكين إذا طأطأ رأسه قطر وإذا رفعه تحدر منه ‏ ‏جمان ‏ ‏كاللؤلؤ فلا يحل لكافر يجد ريح نفسه إلا مات ونفسه ينتهي حيث ينتهي ‏ ‏طرفه ‏ ‏فيطلبه حتى يدركه ‏ ‏بباب لد ‏ ‏فيقتله ثم يأتي ‏ ‏عيسى ابن مريم ‏ ‏قوم قد ‏ ‏عصمهم ‏ ‏الله منه فيمسح عن وجوههم ويحدثهم بدرجاتهم في الجنة فبينما هو كذلك إذ أوحى الله إلى ‏ ‏عيسى ‏ ‏إني قد أخرجت عبادا لي ‏ ‏لا يدان ‏ ‏لأحد بقتالهم ‏ ‏فحرز ‏ ‏عبادي إلى ‏ ‏الطور ‏ ‏ويبعث الله ‏ ‏يأجوج ‏ ‏ومأجوج ‏ ‏وهم من كل حدب ينسلون فيمر أوائلهم على ‏ ‏بحيرة طبرية ‏ ‏فيشربون ما فيها ويمر آخرهم فيقولون لقد كان بهذه مرة ماء ويحصر نبي الله ‏ ‏عيسى ‏ ‏وأصحابه حتى يكون رأس الثور لأحدهم خيرا من مائة دينار لأحدكم اليوم ‏ ‏فيرغب ‏ ‏نبي الله ‏ ‏عيسى ‏ ‏وأصحابه فيرسل الله عليهم ‏ ‏النغف ‏ ‏في رقابهم فيصبحون ‏ ‏فرسى ‏ ‏كموت نفس واحدة ثم يهبط نبي الله ‏ ‏عيسى ‏ ‏وأصحابه إلى الأرض فلا يجدون في الأرض موضع شبر إلا ملأه ‏ ‏زهمهم ‏ ‏ونتنهم ‏ ‏فيرغب ‏ ‏نبي الله ‏ ‏عيسى ‏ ‏وأصحابه إلى الله فيرسل الله طيرا كأعناق ‏ ‏البخت ‏ ‏فتحملهم فتطرحهم حيث شاء الله ثم يرسل الله مطرا لا ‏ ‏يكن ‏ ‏منه بيت ‏ ‏مدر ‏ ‏ولا وبر فيغسل الأرض حتى يتركها ‏ ‏كالزلفة ‏ ‏ثم يقال للأرض أنبتي ثمرتك وردي بركتك فيومئذ تأكل ‏ ‏العصابة ‏ ‏من الرمانة ويستظلون ‏ ‏بقحفها ‏ ‏ويبارك في ‏ ‏الرسل ‏ ‏حتى أن ‏ ‏اللقحة ‏ ‏من الإبل ‏ ‏لتكفي ‏ ‏الفئام ‏ ‏من الناس ‏ ‏واللقحة ‏ ‏من البقر ‏ ‏لتكفي القبيلة من الناس ‏ ‏واللقحة ‏ ‏من الغنم ‏ ‏لتكفي ‏ ‏الفخذ ‏ ‏من الناس فبينما هم كذلك إذ بعث الله ريحا طيبة فتأخذهم تحت آباطهم فتقبض روح كل مؤمن وكل مسلم ويبقى شرار الناس ‏ ‏يتهارجون ‏ ‏فيها ‏ ‏تهارج الحمر ‏ ‏فعليهم تقوم الساعة ‏
‏حدثنا ‏ ‏علي بن حجر السعدي ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏عبد الله بن عبد الرحمن بن يزيد بن جابر ‏ ‏والوليد بن مسلم ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏ابن حجر ‏ ‏دخل حديث أحدهما في حديث الآخر ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏عبد الرحمن بن يزيد بن جابر ‏ ‏بهذا الإسناد ‏ ‏نحو ما ذكرنا وزاد بعد قوله لقد كان بهذه مرة ماء ثم يسيرون حتى ينتهوا إلى ‏ ‏جبل الخمر ‏ ‏وهو جبل ‏ ‏بيت المقدس ‏ ‏فيقولون لقد قتلنا من في الأرض هلم فلنقتل من في السماء فيرمون ‏ ‏بنشابهم ‏ ‏إلى السماء فيرد الله عليهم ‏ ‏نشابهم ‏ ‏مخضوبة ‏ ‏دما ‏ ‏وفي رواية ‏ ‏ابن حجر ‏ ‏فإني قد أنزلت عبادا لي لا ‏ ‏يدي ‏ ‏لأحد بقتالهم

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=1&Rec=6726

so, this is the reason ahmadis believes what Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) believes about promised messiah. the above hadith proves that when He will come in this Ummah Allah will send Wahi to him Also Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) called him Nabi.

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

M-K-R is used for planning/being shrewed/plotting ... in Classical Arabic, it can be taken for both good and evil. It is a generic word.

Khair-ul Maakireen does not mean "the best of planners", it means "above all planners/plotted"

wa makaroo wa makar Allah-u wa Allah-u Kahair-ul Maakireen
And they planned (against Jesus) and God planned (His law of Requital/Cause and effect before anything else) and God is Above all planners.

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

repeated post.. please delete.. sorry

Re: Fall of Ahmadiyya Community

008.030YUSUFALI: Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah.
PICKTHAL: And when those who disbelieve plot against thee (O Muhammad) to wound thee fatally, or to kill thee or to drive thee forth; they plot, but Allah (also) plotteth; and Allah is the best of plotters.
SHAKIR: And when those who disbelieved devised plans against you that they might confine you or slay you or drive you away; and they devised plans and Allah too had arranged a plan;** and Allah is the best of planners**