Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

Yes I have a hidden vendetta against Punjabis or maybe some people just refuse to acknowledge the truth for what it is. :)

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

Wow, now you are coming up conclusions outta thin air. I am extremely proud of my Punjabi background and Punjabi is one of the primary languages I communicate in. So, no I am not being anti-Punjabi BUT I am against the looking down upon other castes and thinking they are low class. There is no harm in admitting its a flawed system. Yes, I admit I don't know much about Bolchis or Sindhis to know the ins and outs of their culture but that still doesn't make it okay to discriminate others due to caste. Again, I already mentioned this is MY understanding and never claimed it was a fact.

If you really wanted to make sure everyone got a clear view of what Bolchis, Sindhis or Pathans are like (since you seem to know all about it) you could have said so WITHOUT making absurd conclusions of what others are trying to say. So, I invite you to tell us all and clear any misunderstandings about the topic.

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

So is surname the easiest indicator of caste?

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

SYED: As an honorific title, it denotes males accepted as descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad through his grandsons, Hasan ibn Ali and Husain ibn Ali, sons of the prophet’s daughter Fatima Zahra and his son-in-law Ali ibn Abi Talib. (wikipedia)

they are basically from the tribe of BANU HASHIM!

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

usually wht I have seen in syed families .. is that man use Syed as their first name! ... like syed Azhar Hussain!
or women would go for something like SYEDA Fatima Zehra! ...normally syeds are Shias!
but yes, there are many sunni syeds too! ...

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

It is controversial whether Hinduism as a religion recognizes caste as a differentiator between high vs low, or if that is manmade. There is one passage in the Bhagawad Gita in which Lord Krishna says (to the best ofo my recollection) " A brahmin who does the work of a Shudra has sinned, and a Shudra who does the work of a Brahmin has also sinned.

The above can be interpreted as - each of us has a duty to perform, our specialization. Do what we do best , dont try to do someone else's specialty.

There are a couple of books (I can provide references if anyone asks, but again stating from memory) which state that the caste system, before the British took power, was ever evolving. One can go from one caste to another based on one's profession. So you can be born a Brahmin, but if you take up business, you become a Vaishya.

The British made the structure rigid, and the favored the Brahmins and Kshatriyas at the expense of the Shudras - classic divide and rule.

This is all I know.

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

No question about it. It is equivalent to a fingerprint.

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

well I am witness a horrible situation these days ONLY cuz my sister got married to a non-choudary guy...the whole khandaan has turned against my parents, called them names and God knows what...IMO its is ONLY jahalat that make ppl react like that....disgusting caste system!!!

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

not necessarily.

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

Like said Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself was a proud member of Quryesh tribe so is Qureshi considered high caste or not? Just Curious :)

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

I like my nephew's approach on this matter, on I asked him over the phone.

oye yeh nia kuta kis nasal ka hy.
he goes
chacho humari hi nasal ka hy :D

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

Qureshi are suppose to be tribe of Prophet PBUH, but in Pakistan do not take things on face value, as Qassab (butcher) biradri also like to call themselves Qureshi (at least in Karachi).

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

im just totting up the number of different people who dont have anything nice to say about punjabis!!

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

Castes? Originated/developed in Hinduism. Implemented extremely effectively by the British. Thus the current bickering.

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

agree with the above - end of!

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

O think in islam, you are recognised by your mom technically. Syed Nasal came from Bibi Fatima technically, the relation direct to the holy prophet was through her. So doesnt that mean that the following should be moms side?

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

:rotfl:

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

My moms family is BIG on the syed thing to the point where they've ruined their daughter's lives by marrying them to really incompatible people just because they were syed. My dad's side is syed but they care less about it...I don't care about it AT ALL. But my nana told me if I married outside of syeds, he would never talk to me (so sad how far away from Islam we've gotten)...

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

Guys as some of the wiser among you have pointed out your confussing several things here.

Firstly many of you have listed examples which are in fact Tribes not Castes. There is a distinct difference.

Also several of you have listed titles which are again completely different things.

From what I understand a Caste, is a basically a grouping/classification of people according to thier supposed duty or tasks in life. For example Priest, Soldier, Cleaner, Weaver, Scribe, Tailor etc etc... In pre industrial times you were basically set your career from birth and you could not choose a different way of life you were bound to your caste. Example a son of a Priest could only live as a Priest and not take up the jobs of the cleaner and vice versa. This is basically Caste.

Titles transcend this... you could be the Lord or ruler of any caste but essentially you were only a lord unto your caste, different castes had different values. Obviously the Priests and Warriors were held in higher regard than a cleaner or weaver. However it was still possible for an excellent weaver to become lord of the weavers... he just could not lord over others who were higher than him... wheras a Priest could be high Priest, and while lording over other priests he was also automatically higher than even the lord of the weavers. As Priest was higher up the ladder of society than weaver.

Now Tribes are basically people linked by blood or shared values, different tribes had different rules some tribes were demorcatic, others were meritocratic, others still were basically dictatorships. Back in History and even today humans find strength in numbers and it feels good to belong to some group or other... basically its a step up from gang culture. Loners were losers all round but if you could get yourself into a tribe you had a good chance of living. Various tribes were stronger or more special than others in various fields.

Now in Islam its quite clear all men and women are equal, there is nothing like the Caste system in Islam. Essentially the Caste system is a Hindu invention although you could argue to some extent, if your a marxist/communist that modern society is tied up like the caste system in some ways... lets not get into that though.

In Islam however there are distinctions, these are tribes and personal attributes of people. A Muslim believes that the latter of these qualities are divinely gifted. As for tribes long before and after Islam certain tribes are given more favours... primarily on a merit basis. Some people genuinely did give up a lot more for Islam so they rightly have a higher status not for what they are but what they did.
As for the divienly gifted qualities these are many and go from personal looks and habits to skills and attributes. For example an artisan or craftsman or a wise man or herbalist/doctor are granted special status in society not becuase they are born any better then me or you but becuase they have dedicated themselves to a higher purpose. In Islam things are essentially a meritocracy.

If your skilled enough or divinely gifted to go to a higher level then nothing is there to stop you, in fact you should strive to be the best. The Caste sysetm ignores merit though. You might as the son of a carpenter for example be able to beat the stuffing out of a Lords son at anything... becuase he is a lords son and you a carpenter you cant do anything. In Islam though if you got the strength and you use it wisely then by all means stand up to the opressors.

Essentially thats the difference the way I see it. My interpretation may be wrong but its quite clearly based on common sense and principles and the way I see it I think this is a good summary though its open to discussion and I am no Alim so if someone knows better than please come forward and join this discussion.

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Re: Explanation of the Pakistani caste system..

I agree with Faris that's exactly how I perceive it. Although, I think the lines between caste and tribes names have been blurred hence the confusion.