Hmmm interesting, maybe not a caste system but something else? I know of a Sikh girl who liked a guy but didn't pursue it because he was from a different 'caste' or something and her parents would never approve
i was talking in terms of religious caste system,** like the one in Hinduism we have. In Islam there is NO caste system but people still have social caste system. it may be there in Sikhism in that sense as well which may be more social/regional caste system than a religious one. i stand corrected.**
The concept of caste system in the Hindu faith has to do with their belief in reincarnation and how a person ascends or descends statuses based on their actions.
Here is an excerpt found online:
*The Caste System is a rigid class structure based on Hinduism which is found in India. It is believed that if one leads a good life, following good karma and dharma, then they will be rewarded by being reincarnated as a person belonging to the next highest level in the Caste System. However, if one is wicked during their life, they will be demoted, and possibly even removed from the Caste System altogether. Outcasts, or [Untouchables](http://javascript: window.open(‘http://www.regentsprep.org/Regents/global/vocab/def.cfm?term=untouchables’,‘’,'status=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes, width=400,height=200’); void(‘’), are members of Hindu society thought to have been removed from the Caste System, with no hope of returning to it, due to their misdeeds in previous lives. Work that is deemed unclean for all other Hindus is reserved for these Outcasts.
*
Caste system is a religious concept in the Hindu faith. The Sikh faith is a relatively new religion and it was founded in opposition to Hindu and Muslim belief systems. The idea of a caste system is rejected by the Sikh faith BUT the practice of caste-based stratification is a hold-over from centuries (or actually millenia) of caste-based divisions that have become a cultural norm.
For Muslims, there is no recognition of “caste” as a measure of a higher or lesser person, but yes, there is recognition of tribal affiliations. Tribal or clan associations are human nature - which family you come from and associate yourself with.
**Disclaimer: **No offense intended to my Hindu friends, if the information I have provided is incorrect, please feel free to correct the information.
Caste system is not an Islamic concept and I believe the reason **only **Punjabi s have caste system **comes from the Sikh Punjabi s. Its definitely a cultural aspect. There are a lot of people who still follow it but I know many people who are moving away from it.
Errr what?
Do you have any idea how many different tribes/clans there are in Pakhtoons, Sindhis, Balochis or even within all Holy Arabs? Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself was a proud member of Quryesh tribe and we didn't have Sikhism or India at that time.
Punjabis just like groups above don't have a caste system rather a tribe/clan system and some tribes are more proud and particular about their history, social standing, traits than others.
Anyone who is ignorantly calling it an 'only Punjabi thing' certainly lacks experience, and knowledge of people from different regions of Pakistan.
among hindus the term refers to the religious segregation of people.........what happens in pakistan isn't caste system in that sense........its cultural/social phenomena..... it doesn't have anything to do with religion........
and about Punjabi sikhs,muslims etc.......... the castes have been there for centuries....regardless of religion............. people can have similar castes yet different religions etc.....
Do you have any idea how many different tribes/clans there are in Pakhtoons, Sindhis, Balochis or even within all Holy Arabs? Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself was a proud member of Quryesh tribe and we didn't have Sikhism or India at that time.
Punjabis just like groups above don't have a caste system rather a tribe/clan system and some tribes are more proud and particular about their history, social standing, traits than others.
Anyone who is ignorantly calling it an 'only Punjabi thing' certainly lacks experience, and knowledge of people from different regions of Pakistan.
Err yes, I am Punjabi myself so I have heard of the caste system. None of my non-Punjabi friends speak of castes. When I say or hear caste I don't think tribes or clans. That to me is different. Caste system is the hierarchy system (or has at least turned to that) where castes like moochi, nayi etc are thought to be off lower class/status and Jatt/Gujjar are thought to be higher class.
BTW I never claimed to know it all that was just MY understanding. As I said earlier I don't know any non-Punjabis who speak of castes hence MY conclusion.
Do you have any idea how many different tribes/clans there are in Pakhtoons, Sindhis, Balochis or even within all Holy Arabs? Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself was a proud member of Quryesh tribe and we didn't have Sikhism or India at that time.
Punjabis just like groups above don't have a caste system rather a tribe/clan system and some tribes are more proud and particular about their history, social standing, traits than others.
Anyone who is ignorantly calling it an 'only Punjabi thing' certainly lacks experience, and knowledge of people from different regions of Pakistan.
Why must you always be SO rude when replying to a post?? You have totally misunderstood the question. Having different tribes/clans is totally different than the caste system being referred to here. Tribes and clans refer to the different families that people come from whereas the caste system refers to the hierarchy of families based on their last name/where they originated from. Caste system actually gives people the false impression that they might be better than the family next door since they are Syeds and the people next door are Maliks. And yes it's prevalent amongst Punjabi people because I've never seen Pathans argue that the Kathaks are better than the Afridis. I have several Punjabi friends who mentioned that they can only marry a Syed or a Qureshi or what not. Also, being proud of your heritage is one thing but to look down upon others based on their family name is totally barbaric!
Also Sikhism totally denounced the caste system but it's still prevalent in their culture. One of my friends is a Jatt and her family is very particular about the caste she marries into. There is no way they will let her marry anyone but a Jatt. Another friend of mine was not a Jatt but liked a Jatt guy. The guy's mom was very upset that my friend wasn't a Jatt and didn't want her son getting married to her.
the majority of families would like their children to marry their own kind - whether its their own caste, region/area in within Pakistan, Pakistani themselves, and then if all that can't be found, then someone who is Muslim.
Nothing wrong with any of the above, but there is a hadith that goes something about how one should marry one who has similar family lineage, same economic status, etc. But marry someone who has a firm concept of their deen (first and foremost), and you cant go wrong.
Why must you always be SO rude when replying to a post?? You have totally misunderstood the question. Having different tribes/clans is totally different than the caste system being referred to here. Tribes and clans refer to the different families that people come from whereas the caste system refers to the hierarchy of families based on their last name/where they originated from. Caste system actually gives people the false impression that they might be better than the family next door since they are Syeds and the people next door are Maliks. And yes it's prevalent amongst Punjabi people because I've never seen Pathans argue that the Kathaks are better than the Afridis. I have several Punjabi friends who mentioned that they can only marry a Syed or a Qureshi or what not. Also, being proud of your heritage is one thing but to look down upon others based on their family name is totally barbaric!
Exactly what was "SO" rude in my post?
Yes it was so rude to call out an "only Punjabi" problem, when really 'you cannot marry outside of family/tribe" issues is equally prevalent in Pakhtoon, Balochi, Sindhi cultures. Just like Punjabis, other communities when get together talk liberally about their little regional customs and phenomena. Yoy say its Punjab's obsession, I'm a Punjabi and I'd never ever bother talking about Punjabi tribe system with my Balochi friend, similarly they won't get into nitty gritties of their regional customs because everything is so different and irrelevant to other party; now should a naive outsider think that Pakistan have no concept of tribe/caste just because he's never seen two Pakistanis ever discussing it? So I see nothing but bitter, self defeating generalization.
the majority of families would like their children to marry their own kind - whether its their own caste, region/area in within Pakistan, Pakistani themselves, and then if all that can't be found, then someone who is Muslim.
Nothing wrong with any of the above, but there is a hadith that goes something about how one should marry one who has similar family lineage, same economic status, etc. But marry someone who has a firm concept of their deen (first and foremost), and you cant go wrong.
Having a preference to marry an Urdu speaking/punjabi/pathan Pakistani Muslim is totally different than being fixated upon a family's lineage and surname and thinking that they are not good enough for your son/daughter. The only reason people have preferences is because it increases the likelihood of compatibility, though these days you never know which marriage will fail. The caste system is a totally different concept where people actually look down upon other families because they have been deluded into thinking they are better by virtue of their last name!
Again this isn't about tribes or customs....it's about caste! It's about looking down upon people who don't have the same family name as you!
Yes Pathans, Sindhis, Balochis and Urdu speaking will definitely prefer marrying their own kind but they don't go down to the family NAME! I've never seen them discriminate amongst their own kind whereas it seems as if amongst the Punjabis, the Arains, Rajputs, Maliks, Siddiquis have all been categorized.
Err yes, I am Punjabi myself so I have heard of the caste system. None of my non-Punjabi friends speak of castes. When I say or hear caste I don't think tribes or clans. That to me is different. Caste system is the hierarchy system (or has at least turned to that) where castes like moochi, nayi etc are thought to be off lower class/status and Jatt/Gujjar are thought to be higher class.
BTW I never claimed to know it all that was just MY understanding. As I said earlier I don't know any non-Punjabis who speak of castes hence MY conclusion.
Okay Its a Punjabi obsession, since you are a Punjabi, do you also talk/explain Punjabi caste system to your non-Punjabi friends?
so whats difference between tribes preferring to marry within their own and castes doing the same? why do tribes reject other tribes?? because they think that the other tribe is better??
Having a preference to marry an Urdu speaking/punjabi/pathan Pakistani Muslim is totally different than being fixated upon a family's lineage and surname and thinking that they are not good enough for your son/daughter. The only reason people have preferences is because it increases the likelihood of compatibility, though these days you never know which marriage will fail. The caste system is a totally different concept where people actually look down upon other families because they have been deluded into thinking they are better by virtue of their last name!
please...i see urdu speaking people looking down at punjabis thinking they are just farmers and arent educated enought of a family to marry. and then even a child marrying someone who is not paksitani, lets say bengali for example, and families thinking they are way too good to one of them to marry a bengali. nothing to do with compatibility, its just racism to me.
people always think they are better than anyone else and that no one is good enough for their children.
Again this isn't about tribes or customs....it's about caste! It's about looking down upon people who don't have the same family name as you!
Yes Pathans, Sindhis, Balochis and Urdu speaking will definitely prefer marrying their own kind but they don't go down to the familyNAME! I've never seen them discriminate amongst their own kind whereas it seems as if amongst the Punjabis, the Arains, Rajputs, Maliks, Siddiquis have all been categorized.
Again what are your basis for this claim? My experience and knowledge say that certain Pathans, Balochis, Sindhis are equally obsessive about Family name and background. Is this some kind of insult to average man's intelligence, how freaking common it is for Pathans/Balochis to have their clan/tribe name as surename instead of father's name? It simply looks like a case of grass is always greener on the other side...
, are members of Hindu society thought to have been removed from the Caste System, with no hope of returning to it, due to their misdeeds in previous lives. Work that is deemed unclean for all other Hindus is reserved for these Outcasts.